Church Bashing
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BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Believing what you read in the Bible... Now, is that any way to get to the truth about God?
And I believe it is impossible for men to do. But with God all things are possible.
Walk in the Spirit so you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh is a command that I can’t do. That was your question. I tried for over a decade to not murder continually but the harder I tried the more I saw my righteousness did not exceed the righteousness of anyone else I knew. Where was the power to DO what He commanded??
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Yes. If the Bible taught that all men are born immortal I could accept it.
This deserves it's own thread.
Our lives are not, I don't think, supposed to be about "forcing ourselves to not do what we shouldn't", because that will never work.
Instead, we are to be forcing ourselves to do the things we should, and in so doing, we will leave undone what we shouldn't do.
The one who can control their tongue can control their whole body.
Consider the tongue. It moves constantly, like it has a mind of it's own. Medical science says that's not far from the truth.
I know that when I have a sore tooth, or a chip, or anything different, my tongue is all over it. I get bruised gums, and pushing my tongue against them makes it worse. But the tongue just goes there no matter what. Is that just me? OR are others like that?
Anyway, I've come to realize that just trying to hold my tongue in place doesn't work. I quickly forget what I'm doing, and it starts to make it's rounds again. But I've learned what does work, and that's when I'm actively doing something different with my tongue. Instead of poking there, I'll push it against another place.
Actively using it for something else appears to me to be the only way to control my tongue and prevent it from doing what I don't want.
If you walk in the Spirit, you will not do the works of the flesh. The one who can control their tongue can control their whole body.
And do you see how literally I take these things? And how literally true they are?
Much love!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
He was probably the foremost evangelical scholar specializing in the case for annihilationism. His film biopic, Hell And Mr. Fudge, caused quite a stir about 10 years ago.
Edward Fudge - Wikipedia
Here's some interviews and lectures:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=edward+fudge
And here's the movie for free:
Hah! At first I thought you were making a joke about cookies when I googled it, but I then added “author” and found him. I am going to look up that book! He probably has tons more than what I’ve seen!
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Thanks! :)
And I think this goes back to my opposition to Church Bashing.
I don't have to know WHY the 30,000 denominations have different doctrines to respect the WHAT, they are Christ followers who are doing their level best to advance the kingdom of God with the light that God gave them to see the light. That I may not agree with every jot & iota of doctrine pales in comparison.
Oh his book is expensive for my wallet right now. 
But I found him speaking on YouTube! I’m off to listen. Thank you so much BF!! I’m very excited! :)
But I found him speaking on YouTube! I’m off to listen. Thank you so much BF!! I’m very excited! :)
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right and your experience is both common and understandable. Most people don't have the courage to admit that their spiritual growth is not proceeding in a manner that is satisfactory to them. The truth is we should all feel that way to some degree. Otherwise, no hungering and thirsting for righteousness are likely to occur.
The best, organized lesson book on righteousness by faith I have ever encountered is here:
Lesson 02 – Lessons on Faith
(The actual instruction begins in Lesson #2.)
So for me, I prefer to discuss what the Bible says. Having determined what it does and does not say, I don't go on to make some kind of moral judgment over what I believe it says.
When someone suggests to me that even though this certain thing is said, we "know" that's "bad", therefore it can't be true, one of my responses is to acknowledge that the gap in understanding between man and God is infinite, and we shouldn't expect to see everything the way He does.
When someone victimized someone else, they are taking the place of God in that person's life, and the damage can go way beyond the simplicity of the act itself.
Let's take for example the man who molested me. He did it for the purpose of turning me into a child molester. He told me all about it over the course of the two weeks or so it was going on. It was done to him, and that's what he became. So now he was going to do that to me.
My understanding is that if he was successful at making me into a child molester, it would validate his choice, proving that the act had the power to change a person, and the person is helpless against it. It's not true, and I'm not a child molester. No thanks to him! Not that he would have had the chance to see the validation! But this was what he told himself. He had damage and this alleviated his pain for a short time. But his momentary "fix" ruins entire lives.
And that's the point. If he had his way, he would have not only ruined my life in the world, but he would have destroyed me from being able to have eternal life with God.
And even so . . . what has been the impact on my life? My fruitfulness? My eternal rewards? Just how much did he steal from me? I can tell you, the loss is incalculable.
He would have destroyed me forever! And rest assured I'm not his only victim! How many did he do that do?
What is God's righteous judgment? I understand his pain and suffering, and I understand the drives that produce such evil behavior. Physical damage to the brain happens, producing terrible results in the mind, I get that. Maybe like a lot of people don't.
There's another side to the coin . . . that even this works for my good. I suspect that had I not been destroyed in such a fashion, maybe I'd have been so self sufficient as to never come to God. This was likely for my salvation.
I hope somehow God reached him. I expect by this time he's likely dead. What about the ones who did that to him? What is the righteous judgment of God?
Sorry to just blat this out for you . . . but I wanted to illustrate better the considerations I have in mind.
Much love!
This is another way to say it says so in one place, but other places contradict it?
Much love!
Or another way of saying, yes but God has ALSO said, and working out from there. Even if you don’t understand every verse at first, you can go with the preponderance of evidence first.
That's a given. But it is living in torment -- eternal separation from God. That is exactly what the Bible says. "Oh, we believe the Bible is the Word of God, but we do not believe this. We pick and choose what to believe and what not to believe".
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