Church Bashing

[stunnedbygrace]

Rabbit hole

Or fox hole…

 

[marks]

OR, I bristle against a judgement of men that speaks wrongly of God.

And yet, that judgment is written in the Word.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

No…I say such a thing is not true because scripture does not say it and men have spoken wrongly concerning this and I show from scripture that it isn’t true and they have spoken wrongly.

Have you read E.L. Fudge's stuff?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Actually, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the King James translators (at least) were biased in favor of it.

Maybe. But even in KJV, the doctrine is just not there in scripture.

 

[BarneyFife]

Or fox hole…

I withdraw the remark. I was just making a vain attempt to derail a tangent.

 

[marks]

And then the men who repeat it as the word from God, saying God says (thus says that the Lord) unbelievers will be tormented and in torment forever in an eternal life of torment, what crazy thing are they saying and for what sort of reason? They were taught it and they repeat it, saying it is what God has said. And they insist it is the truth and defend a lie…for what crazy reason?

Call me crazy, say I'm just repeated what I've been told if that gives you some relief. I just believe what I read in the Bible.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And yet, that judgment is written in the Word.

Much love!

No… that judgement is not written in the word. Men have interpreted it is there without taking the whole counsel of God. It is absolutely not there.

 

[marks]

I bear some responsibility for that. Howbowchoo? :)

Absolutely! I'm diggin' it! I love this back and forth, and everyone is playing nice, and I hope I'm staying nice!

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Maybe. But even in KJV, the doctrine is just not there in scripture.

There is support for it, just not as much as there is for the truth about the final disposition of sin and sinners.

 

[marks]

No… that judgement is not written in the word. Men have interpreted it is there without taking the whole counsel of God. It is absolutely not there.

There are specific statements made that tell us this. Shall we ignore those thinking other verses show them wrong?

everlasting life / everlasting torment / torment in the sense that fear has torment

This is basic stuff.

Much love!

 

[marks]

OR, I bristle against a judgement of men that speaks wrongly of God.

So if you were to find that the Bible actually does teach that people last forever, and sinners will be in eternal torment, then you would be OK with it?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I withdraw the remark. I was just making a vain attempt to derail a tangent.

I adore the tangents and rabbit holes He leads us down and I adore learning with you guys and mining for gold.

 

[marks]

Now that’s being very wise.
And that’s why we aren’t to judge and condemn unbelievers.
Which is what is done by some of the leaven of men when it is taught and swallowed.

Be wise.

We need to remember our limitations and our place.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

I love you!

Mark

Much love here, too!!!

 

[marks]

I adore the tangents and rabbit holes He leads us down and I adore learning with you guys and mining for gold.

Yep, that's what it feels like, mining for gold!

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There are specific statements made that tell us this. Shall we ignore those thinking other verses show them wrong?

everlasting life / everlasting torment / torment in the sense that fear has torment

This is basic stuff.

Much love!

Should we go over it again? What you say is basic stuff (all men live forever) is not in there. What is in there is that there’s only one way to eternal life.

 

[marks]

What could I have said that would give you the impression that I would sit in judgment over God's sense of justice?

I don't think that of you. I'm wanting to point to the infinite gap between He and us, His mind and our minds.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Call me crazy, say I'm just repeated what I've been told if that gives you some relief. I just believe what I read in the Bible.

Much love!

Do you? The Bible says there is only one way to eternal life.

 

[marks]

Should we go over it again? What you say is basic stuff (all men live forever) is not in there. What is in there is that there’s only one way to eternal life.

What is basic stuff is what I said . . . everlasting life, and everlasting torment. Are they everlasting? OR not?

Much love!

 

[marks]

eternal life

I'm talking about eternal death, which you interpret as cessation of existence, even though the Bible is replete with examples of those who continued to exist though they died.

When you use different definitions of death in different places, you are moving the goalposts, and making the Word plastic, moldable.

Much love!