Church Bashing

[Brakelite]

Don't mix up your prescriptions.

In the one case, the child will die without the medicine. In the case we are talking about, the child must suffer "for a little while" until the Great Physician determines the time is right, and trust that He will ultimately deliver on His promises. I don't know why this is so, but the witness of the scriptures and the great crowd of faithful believers is that this is indeed so.

13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen and welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. (Hebrews 11:13)

When in glory we look back on those times of doubt and wondering why God led us a certain way other than our initial desires, we will understand and agree that all was for our good, and that of we could see the end from the beginning in our time of crisis, we would have chosen God's way.

 

[BarneyFife]

Your self awareness is a wonderful gift. I think having that self awareness is the first step in overcoming. And sometimes we need to hear others telling us who we are.
I remember when I first felt convicted to give up smoking. I tried several times, sometimes for months, but would return. It wasn't until I admitted that I actually still liked to smoke, enjoyed it, that I was willing to ask God to change my attitude toward the habit first.
We are sinners. Fallen helpless moral viruses that can do nothing of ourselves to overcome. When we finally realize that without Him we can do nothing, then we can begin to live.

AMEN--PRAISE THE LORD!!!

 

[Brakelite]

You trusted Him to save you, but because you sin you then stop trusting Him to finish what He began

An all to often repeated practise among Christians. Sin indeed separates. Look at Adam and Eve. They hid fearing God would kill them. When we fall, how often do we refrain from Bible study or attending church or praying because we don't "feel worthy"?
It's because we stop trusting.

 

[Brakelite]

Does the need for reconciliation mean that prior to their disobedience, Adam and Eve were in harmony with God? Once they had disobeyed, the harmony was gone... and a reconciliation was necessary in order to move again toward God.

Adam and Eve disobeyed and were then out of sync with God. They were dead and, of course, He was Alive. They had lost Life itself, so they did not have the price of their own redemption, the price of reharmonizing with God, the means to reconcile themselves once more with God.

Because in losing their harmony they lost Life itself, they could not regain what they had lost. A sacrifice was needed, a sacrifice of something Alive... but who was worthy? Who was Alive? Not one man in the eyes of God!

Who but God could it? Why did He set things up that way in the first place?

"And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." Gen 22:2

"And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:7-8



Did God through His Son do for us something we, being dead, could not do for ourselves? We were dead and dead sacrifices were and are unacceptable! But then once a person has taken hold of the Life, which Jesus made accessible through the Holy Spirit what does that person need to do?

See what Paul wrote here:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

If we are not Alive, as God counts being Alive, is any sacrifice by us meaningful to God? What would it, the sacrifice of a dead man, accomplish?

Excellent brother.

 

[Brakelite]

Ummm….okay marks. Pick up your cross and nail your actual body to it.

Failing that he could flagellate himself with some friars.

 

[Brakelite]

Milk. No one ever said our hope was anything else but our savior.

Meat. We have the burden to die daily for Christ. It means sanctification is the price we pay once we are saved, to abandon the old, sinful life. Jesus did not die so we could remain untransformed. What did our savior save us from? Not death!

Death is but the consequence, the effect. Jesus died to save us from our sins. This means sanctification, to be to set apart - apart from our sins. Not on our own but through Him. Not all who call Jesus Lord will be saved - but only those who obey the will of God. We are not saved by our work but once saved, we have work to do, which is our duty and honor to do.

Remembering that no-one ever lowered themselves into the water of baptism, nor did they raise themselves from the dead. That takes Another.

 

[Lambano]

Whaaaa? You think me in unforgiveness?? Yeah, I still struggle with the last person living here but have moved on. It's up to Him now...

Whoa, where did that come from?

 

[quietthinker]

You have every right to ask that question. I have given an honest telling of what He has done for me. It’s not for bragging that I tell anyone about it. It’s because I want them to believe what He says He will do and grab for it and ask for it themselves. But count the cost first, because the cost is everything you have.
No, not walking in holiness. I am still just led by the Spirit and not walking IN the Spirit. But isn’t it better to have my enemies who rise up to trouble me in the land silenced than to be harassed by them constantly? He drove them out. He put them under my feet.

It’s true that I sit here alone, wondering where I went since I don’t have my passions directing me any more, and wondering what comes next. But at least I sit here in great freedom and peace from that enemy (the flesh). There are three enemies - the world, our flesh and the devil. The first two don’t mercilessly harass and control me any more.

Im talking about what I know. I can’t talk any further past that except to say that the man who has been correct about everything I’ve gone through thus far says there are more deep rooted things remaining and that I could be sitting here for quite some time. But it’s better to eat a dry crust alone than to have steak with a contentious woman.

I dont want any contentious women but a woman who can see past her hormones adds up to a great plus.

 

[quietthinker]

Yes! And He will do it now. It’s not all for a future time. The power is for now. He will run your enemies out of yourself now. Do you believe that? I think you do.

of course.

 

[quietthinker]

Milk. No one ever said our hope was anything else but our savior.

Meat. We have the burden to die daily for Christ. It means sanctification is the price we pay once we are saved, to abandon the old, sinful life. Jesus did not die so we could remain untransformed. What did our savior save us from? Not death!

Death is but the consequence, the effect. Jesus died to save us from our sins. This means sanctification, to be to set apart - apart from our sins. Not on our own but through Him. Not all who call Jesus Lord will be saved - but only those who obey the will of God. We are not saved by our work but once saved, we have work to do, which is our duty and honor to do.

Trusting my Saviour might sound like milk; it is to me however that which underpins all meat.....it is in fact the whole purpose of the exercise.
All the other fancy views in their sophistication are none other than attempts at deception.

 

[JohnPaul]

Does the need for reconciliation mean that prior to their disobedience, Adam and Eve were in harmony with God? Once they had disobeyed, the harmony was gone... and a reconciliation was necessary in order to move again toward God.

Adam and Eve disobeyed and were then out of sync with God. They were dead and, of course, He was Alive. They had lost Life itself, so they did not have the price of their own redemption, the price of reharmonizing with God, the means to reconcile themselves once more with God.

Because in losing their harmony they lost Life itself, they could not regain what they had lost. A sacrifice was needed, a sacrifice of something Alive... but who was worthy? Who was Alive? Not one man in the eyes of God!

Who but God could it? Why did He set things up that way in the first place?

"And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." Gen 22:2

"And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:7-8



Did God through His Son do for us something we, being dead, could not do for ourselves? We were dead and dead sacrifices were and are unacceptable! But then once a person has taken hold of the Life, which Jesus made accessible through the Holy Spirit what does that person need to do?

See what Paul wrote here:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

If we are not Alive, as God counts being Alive, is any sacrifice by us meaningful to God? What would it, the sacrifice of a dead man, accomplish?

I was dead but am now alive.

 

[JohnPaul]

The only Churches I bash are those that are decorated with Rainbow flags and say all inclusive on them, for that is the work of Satan as is the Preacher who resides in said buildings and preaches false teachings that God loves and excepts everyone the way they are.

If this were the case we wouldn't even need to accept Christ, but continue to be happy in the ways of the world, for God would accept us anyway.

False and Satanic teachings as are those who teach such things and accept such things are in league with Satan and not God and Christ.

 

[Lambano]

Okay. The same as with everyone. I don’t like to tell a man what to pray, I really, really don’t…but I would point out the passage where the man says, Lord, I DO believe, help my unbelief!

I could send you over to one of his threads and let you tell him yourself (in case you think I'm talking about myself and not a third party.)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I could send you over to one of his threads and let you tell him yourself (in case you think I'm talking about myself and not a third party.)

Well, I did go looking. I found one person with 8 posts but nothing else. You are the one who had private conversation with the person to know what’s going on, I can only make guesses and say, if it’s someone who thinks they’ve committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, I think it best to find them counsel that has actually been through that themself. If it’s something like porn, I would point out, once again, that the problem is the INSIDE of the cup and they will need to trust God just as all of us have to do. He will not grow, clean or perfect himself. It’s not possible, he might waste many years trying, and it’s going the wrong way. The only right way is trust. It really is. There’s no way we can untangle the seething mess of broken sexuality that we are other than trusting God. If God saves us while we are sinners, He certainly will finish what He’s begun.
He doesn’t fix us by cleaning up the outside. He does it by line upon line for our mind and heart.
I would counsel not focusing on the outside, even though I know churches have a program set up that does that.

 

[Wrangler]

All the other fancy views in their sophistication are none other than attempts at deception.

So, our Savior was attempting to deceive us when he said not all who call him Lord will be saved but only those who obey?

Milk. The meat is that salvation comes with a price - such as not bashing churches. Ephesians 4:29.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm not going to ask Him this for awhile

Hah! Good luck with that one! He doesn’t let us set our own schedule. The tests are not so He can see where we’re lacking trust. He already knows. The tests are so WE will see where we fail in trust and where we lack.
But you are right that we don’t realize our trust is being tested right away. We just know we’re angry, cranky, miserable and with the attitude that He has abandoned us in the desert.
Wisdom is knowing a test of trust is everything from a flat tire to a difficult person to a sickness.
Actually…wisdom knows it’s ALL a test of trust. It’s what He saves us by - trust - so just assume it’s that important that He’s always testing it!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

John seems to see things in black and white terms. It does seem harsh, doesn't it?

Some folks interpret these verses to mean Christians don't sin (and I've seen this multiple times on this board), and it drives me nuts. The whole theme of the letter from 1 John 2:1 to the very last verse is an exhortation to his flock to avoid sin. Here the rhetorical technique is to appeal to their shared identity as Children of God to exhort them to act righteously, to not sin, and to love their brothers and sisters. But people take it literally and condemn their brothers and sisters who fall.

I've been meaning to get this rant out for months. There. I feel better.

Men judge outwardly, what they see. Even Christians, who know God sees the inside, will still judge a man for doing outwardly what they do inwardly. So church becomes a new socialization system for the outside of a man.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So, our Savior was attempting to deceive us when he said not all who call him Lord will be saved but only those who obey?

Milk. The meat is that salvation comes with a price - such as not bashing churches. Ephesians 4:29.

I think you need to read his post more carefully…

 

[Nancy]

Hah! Good luck with that one! He doesn’t let us set our own schedule. The tests are not so He can see where we’re lacking trust. He already knows. The tests are so WE will see where we fail in trust and where we lack.
But you are right that we don’t realize our trust is being tested right away. We just know we’re angry, cranky, miserable and with the attitude that He has abandoned us in the desert.
Wisdom is knowing a test of trust is everything from a flat tire to a difficult person to a sickness.
Actually…wisdom knows it’s ALL a test of trust. It’s what He saves us by - trust - so just assume it’s that important that He’s always testing it!

Agreed. Oh boy does He ever show us our lack. Makes ya want to squeeze your eyes shut, and hide in a corner from shame!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hah! Good luck with that one! He doesn’t let us set our own schedule. The tests are not so He can see where we’re lacking trust. He already knows. The tests are so WE will see where we fail in trust and where we lack.
But you are right that we don’t realize our trust is being tested right away. We just know we’re angry, cranky, miserable and with the attitude that He has abandoned us in the desert.
Wisdom is knowing a test of trust is everything from a flat tire to a difficult person to a sickness.
Actually…wisdom knows it’s ALL a test of trust. It’s what He saves us by - trust - so just assume it’s that important that He’s always testing it!

But then our own will is all tangled up in it too. Like…if it’s His will I have a flat tire and I’m ranting and raving about the flat tire…or if I will to take a long bubble bath and not see people but His will is apparently that I go pick up someone whose car broke down…