In this earth, in our perceptions and experience. I don't assume that things will seem the same.
There are a lot of assumptions I don't make that others do.
Much love!
Church Bashing
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There are a lot of assumptions I don't make that others do.
Much love!
And I don’t assume God is out to confuse me by making darkness to mean fire, death to mean eternal life and black to mean white. So there are also a lot of assumptions you make that others don’t.
That’s it for me now with you. If I want to have continual argument and picking over words I can go argue with my PA mother and make her very happy. I can’t unsee what I’ve seen no matter HOW hard you want to argue that when God says darkness He means fire and when He says death He means life! It’s just a waste of time. I want it to make sense, not change what darkness means.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Death is death Mark. The categorisations are mens inventions. When God said to Adam, 'you shall surely die' the included word 'surely' dismisses any idea of a qualified death.
What other word could God have used to get the message through?
Yes, death is indead death!
And you, being dead in trespasses . . . is this death?
@stunnedbygrace mentioned not being able to unsee what she'd seen, myself, I wonder that people can't see what I see. The one who has died is freed from sin.
Reckon yourself therefore dead unto sin and alive unto God.
There is so much more to death and life than a light switch on our existence. It's about us and God. Life and death are words of relationship and separation. And like what she said, it's all over the place!
God said to Adam, on the day you eat of that tree, dying you will die. Did God lie? No! Let God be true, and every man a liar! On that day, Adam most certainly did die. Or God lied to Adam. It's one or the other.
Much love!
You are confusing eternal life with eternal Hell. The ordinary person on the street knows there is an eternal Hell. How come you have a hard time with this?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
And folks are always at the ready to suggest or imply that it couldn't possibly be them who might be human enough to fall victim to this common foible, so let me continue:
"Let it never be said that I or those who agree with me could have been falsely indoctrinated. For I(we) have been especially favored of God and protected from this scourge of peddling cunningly devised fables."
Hell is eventually thrown into the lake of fire. So is death. After death is thrown there, there is never anymore death. Death ceases to ever exist again. So why wouldn’t hell cease to exist also when thrown there?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Revelation 14:9-11 LITV
9) And a third angel followed them, saying in a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or in his hand,
10) he also shall drink of the wine of the anger of God having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels and before the Lamb.
11) And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And those worshiping the beast and its image have no rest night and day, even if anyone receives the mark of its name.
What do you do with this?
9) And a third angel followed them, saying in a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark on his forehead, or in his hand,
10) he also shall drink of the wine of the anger of God having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels and before the Lamb.
11) And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And those worshiping the beast and its image have no rest night and day, even if anyone receives the mark of its name.
What do you do with this?
Projecting that onto others isn't necessarily accurate, and in a discussion/debate, it's ad homimen, making it off-topic.
Much love!
I wouldn't have any issue changing my view. Except that there are these handfuls of passages that I don't see how they mean something other than what they appear to say.
Much love!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Well, actually, it was Babylonian wine and I don't see how admitting to doing it myself projects it onto others. I didn't refer to anyone but myself. If I say that I used to steal but I don't do that anymore, is that projection and "ad homimen?"
Well, actually, it was Babylonian wine and I don't see how admitting to doing it myself projects it onto others. I didn't refer to anyone but myself. If I say that I used to steal but I don't do that anymore, is that projection and "ad homimen?"
I'm certain you didn't mean me here, and my comments were entirely misplaced. My apologies!
Much love!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
“… the earth abideth for ever.” — Ecclesiastes 1:4
“… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” — 2Peter 3:10
“… I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” — Genesis 32:30
“No man hath seen God at any time…”– John 1:18
“The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…” — Ezekiel 18:20
“I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…” — Exodus 20:5
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.” — James 1:13
“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham…” — Genesis 22:1
“…he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more. ” — Job 7:9
“…the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth….” — John 5:28-29
“… with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
Sometimes it is necessary to invoke the concept of paradox. Why do we embrace this fact with some texts and refuse to consider it with others?
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I can give you something I used to consider regarding it.
It says day and night. Day and night will one day cease, no more sun to mark it, just eternity from that point on with God giving the light. You know the verse.
So, this happens before the millennium. That these humans face Gods anger, undiluted. Very severe. No rest day or night. Day and night lasts another thousand years. That’s a long time. But to say they have no rest day or night AFTER day and night end makes no sense. So I think it ends then.
Here’s what I thought would be diluted wrath. Being raised AFTER the thousand years and being cast into the lake of fire. Beaten with less stripes than 1000 years of torment.
But…there’s still a problem with humans cast there surviving in torment 1000 years. But those are thoughts I used to consider. And yes, it says the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, but that sounds like a sort of perpetual memorial that always smokes forever to…remind everyone what happened to those who rebelled against God.
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