Circumcision Without Hands

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Johann

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I'm astonished you don't believe in what Jesus accomplished on that cross! He died to TAKE AWAY our sin, because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God SIN ADAM SINNED WILFULLY! Therefore, God Himself became flesh and dwelt among us as the Advocate for the whole world! You believe that means for Christians who still sin. Listen, He either took our sin away, or He failed.
you are misrepresenting me-not good-

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn_1:8-10. The heresy of Perfectionism.

Some might not say, with the Antinomians, that they were absolved from the obligation of the moral law, but they maintained that they were done with sin, had no more sinful propensities, committed no more sinful acts. In opposition hereto the Apostle asserts two facts: (1) Inherent corruption. Distinguish ἁμαρτίαν ἔχειν (“to have sin”) and ἁμαρτάνειν (“to sin”), corresponding to the sinful principle and its manifestation in specific acts. Our natures are poisoned, the taint is in our blood. Grace is the medicine, but recovery is a protracted process.

It is begun the moment we submit ourselves to Christ, but all our lives we continue under treatment.


πλανῶμεν, “lead astray” (cf. Mat_18:12). ἡ ἀλήθεια, in Johannine phraseology not simply “der Wahrheitssinn, die Wahrhaftigkeit der Selbstprüfung und der Selbsterkenntniss” (Rothe), but the revelation of “the True God” (ver. 20; Joh_17:3), which came “through Jesus Christ” (Joh_1:17), Himself “the Truth” (Joh_14:6). Nearly equivalent to ὁ λόγος (1Jn_1:10). The Truth is a splendid ideal, never realised here, else it would cease to be an ideal; always as we pursue it displaying a fuller glory, And thus the nearer we approach it the further off it seems; when we walk in the light we see faults which were hidden in the darkness. Self-abasement is a characteristic of the saints.

When Juan de Avila (A.D. 1500–69) was dying the rector of his college approached him and said: “What joy it must be to you to think of meeting the Saviour!” “Ah!” said the saint, “rather do I tremble at the thought of my sins.” (2) The frequent falls of the believer. We all “have sinned (ἡμαρτήκαμεν),” i.e., committed acts of sin (ἁμαρτίας) manifesting the strength and activity of the sinful principle (ἡ ἁμαρτία) in our souls.

This, however, is no reason for despair. There is a remedy—forgiveness and cleansing in the blood of Jesus; and there is a way of obtaining it—confession.

πιστός, i.e., to His promise (cf. Heb_10:23). δίκαιος: He would be unrighteous if He broke His promise ratified by the blood of Jesus. Peace is not got by denying our sinfulness and our sins, but by frankly confessing them and availing ourselves, continually and repeatedly, of the gracious remedy. “Woe to that soul which presumes to think that he can approach God in any other way than as a sinner asking mercy. Know yourself to be wicked, and God will wrap you up warm in the mantle of His goodness” (Juan de Avila).

“Remission of sins cannot be sundered from penitence, nor can the peace of God belong to consciences where the fear of God does not reign” (Calv.).
Perfectionism has two causes: (1) The stifling of conscience: “we make Him a liar, i.e., turn a deaf ear to His inward testimony, His voice in our souls. (2) Ignorance of His Word: it “is not in us”. Such a delusion were impossible if we steeped our minds in the Scriptures. Consider the lapses of the saints, e.g., David, Peter, and others, in Scriptures!
We have no sin (hamartian ouk echomen). For this phrase see Joh_9:41; Joh_15:22, Joh_15:24. That is, we have no personal guilt, no principle of sin. This some of the Gnostics held, since matter was evil and the soul was not contaminated by the sinful flesh, a thin delusion with which so-called Christian scientists delude themselves today.
We deceive ourselves (heautous planōmen). Present active indicative of planaō, to lead astray. We do not deceive others who know us. Negative statement again of the same idea, “the truth is not in us.”
RWS

That we have no sin
Ὅτι that, may be taken merely as a mark of quotation: “If we say, sin we have not.” On the phrase to have sin, see on Joh_16:22, and compare have fellowship, 1Jn_1:3. Sin (ἁμαρτίαν) is not to be understood of original sin, or of sin before conversion, but generally. “It is obvious that this ἔχειν ἁμαρτίαν (to have sin), is infinitely diversified, according to the successive measure of the purification and development of the new man. Even the apostle John does not exclude himself from the universal if we say” (Ebrard).


Don't misrepresent me.
Johann.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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You're teaching is denying the Cross = as the "one time ETERNAL Sacrifice of Jesus"....

You are reducing the power of the Cleansing BLOOD of Jesus to "past" only...., when you are shown that its = "ETERNAL". is the Sacrifice that is the finished work of Jesus on The Cross..

The cleansing blood is only past because that is all that is necessary. When He takes away the DESIRE TO SIN, because he cleanses our sin nature to be sinless, there is not present of future willful sinning anymore. If you think there is then it is you that doesn't know the power of the Cross.
 

Behold

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The cleansing blood is only past because that is all that is necessary.

"where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".

"The Power of the Blood of Jesus" is that its "eternal".

Its GOD's Blood.

See that?


Listen..

on one hand you say that the Blood needs only be past, and then you'll teach that a person can lose their salvation.

And whatever it is that you teach, is that reason............is taken care of by the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago, already.

See it yet?
 

1stCenturyLady

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1Jn_1:8-10. The heresy of Perfectionism.

8 and 10 is BEFORE Christ, when we have a sin nature, so saying we don't sin is a lie.

9 is How to become a true Christian who has been cleansed of all unrighteousness at the source - the sin nature, purifying it to be sinless. To mock perfectionism is to mock Jesus to commanded us to be perfect and that He would do it in us. "And you shall be perfect as My father in heaven is perfect."

There is a doctrine of demons who wants us to sin until it is too late. The doctrine is you will always sin as long as you are in these bodies of flesh. If you are willfully sinning when you die expecting Jesus to forgive your past, present and FUTURE sins, the demons win.
 

Behold

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There is a doctrine of demons

There are many doctrines of Devils. Hebrews 13:9

One of them is that you can lose your Salvation.

Another is that the Blood of Jesus only forgives all past sin, and then you become your own savior confessing sin to keep yourself saved until you die.

Another is that you have sin, after you are born again.

There are a lot of these Devil's doctrines, and 99% of them try to UNDO The Blood Atonement, by making it "past only" or related to confessing sin, or even getting into water.
Calvin decided to produce a doctrine of devils by saying the Cross is conditional on being elected by pre-destination.
 
J

Johann

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8 and 10 is BEFORE Christ, when we have a sin nature, so saying we don't sin is a lie.

9 is How to become a true Christian who has been cleansed of all unrighteousness at the source - the sin nature, purifying it to be sinless. To mock perfectionism is to mock Jesus to commanded us to be perfect and that He would do it in us. "And you shall be perfect as My father in heaven is perfect."

There is a doctrine of demons who wants us to sin until it is too late. The doctrine is you will always sin as long as you are in these bodies of flesh. If you are willfully sinning when you die expecting Jesus to forgive your past, present and FUTURE sins, the demons win.
Believe what you wish-I don't hold to your doctrines
J.
 

1stCenturyLady

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"where sin abounds, Grace more abounds".

"The Power of the Blood of Jesus" is that its "eternal".

Its GOD's Blood.

See that?


Listen..

on one hand you say that the Blood needs only be past, and then you'll teach that a person can lose their salvation.

And whatever it is that you teach, is that reason............is taken care of by the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago, already.

See it yet?
I can't lose my salvation because I don't want to. But there are doctrines of demons that trick people into sinning because the false teaching of "Jesus forgives our past, present and future sins," so it doesn't matter what you do. That is what you believe.

2 Peter 2
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of [j]corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

What does the above represent? If you don't think they are losing their salvation, then what?

Where sin abounds, grace of God abounds more means, where Satan's power is, God's power is more. Jesus destroyed the works of the devil in us. Behold, demons cannot scare me, they cannot tempt me, they cannot do anything to me, because I keep myself always mindful of Christ. He is always on my mind, and I go over and over His word to understand the whole Bible. I'm lucky. I'm retired, and live alone and have a great thirst for the truth. You say you don't believe in Calvinism, yet half the time you're teaching their doctrines. I thought we were on the same page more than that.

And previously committed was in times past - the Old Covenant saints were WITH SIN because of the sin nature inherited from Satan's influence. So those sins God overlooked because they were looking forward to their future Messiah and kept God's commandments. That is why their sins were forgiven before Christ died. The POWER OF THE CROSS included all those sins previously committed. Stop being stubborn and look at the context of all of the first eight chapters.
 

Behold

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I can't lose my salvation because I don't want to. \


You can't lose salvation because the same Jesus who caused you to have it, is the same reason it can't be lost.

Being born again into the Holy Spirit of God, is a Birth in the Spirit.
You can't end that by your thinking, or faith crisis, or behavior.

"God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it".
 

1stCenturyLady

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Believe what you wish-I don't hold to your doctrines
J.
I know. Was it you I told to look at the verses in the 2nd chapter of 1 John that have the KEY WORD/S "Say"/Says" of a person saying one thing, but doing another, and THEN go back and read 1 John 1, the key word verses of darkness and lies 6, 8 and 10. From verse 5 to 10 it is a contrast between light vs. darkness. You're not to old to learn the truth, unless you just have itching ears.
 

1stCenturyLady

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You can't lose salvation because the same Jesus who caused you to have it, is the same reason it can't be lost.

Being born again into the Holy Spirit of God, is a Birth in the Spirit.
You can't end that by your thinking, or faith crisis, or behavior.

"God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it".

Why do you believe the born again keep willfully sinning and are not practicing sinlessness?
 

Behold

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20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior

There is a "knowledge of the Lord" and there is to be born again as a New Creation "in Christ".

They are not the same thing..

"knowing" is not the same as believing.

"Knowing" is.... "for a little while, and then when the testing came, they fell away" = never actually born again.

To be "not of us" is to not be a part of the body of Christ.

Its to be religious but lost.

Its to be "depart from me, i never never knew you" because you were never born again.

= No root.........>No real salvation.............they were not born again.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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There is a "knowledge of the Lord" and there is to be born again as a New Creation "in Christ".

They are not the same thing..

"knowing" is not the same as believing.

"Knowing" is.... "for a little while, and then when the testing came, they fell away"

To be "not of us" is to not be a part of the body of Christ.

Its to be religious but lost.

Its to be "depart from me, i never never knew you" because you were never born again.

= No root.........>No real salvation.............they were not born again.
That's what I believe also. When I had this discussion with a Calvinist once, I told him the same thing, and we agreed on the term Once, Truly Saved, Always Saved. That was to show the difference between the two you just spoke of.

There are people in church that are not born again, and the Holy Spirit is DRAWING them to Christ through knowledge. But to be saved, you have to be born again, and given the power to be sinless, not still willfully sinning but forgiven.
 

Behold

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You say you don't believe in Calvinism, yet half the time you're teaching their doctrines.

I dont teach Calvinism.

I teach He's a Cross denying tool of the Devil.

Paul said that Jesus's Sacrifice for our sin is "eternal"...and that was written about 1500 yr before the heretic J. Calvin became a cancer on the Body of Christ.
 
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Behold

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Christ died. The POWER OF THE CROSS included all those sins previously committed.

I can't deny "being NOW made free from sin" because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us" who is the "one time eternal sacrifice for sin"

You can continue to deny it.

Not me.
 

Behold

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Why do you believe the born again keep willfully sinning and are not practicing sinlessness?

I teach that """Jesus is the one time eternal sacrifice for sin", because "God hath made JESUS to BE SIN FOR US".

It others who teach that they have their sin,

Net Chaplin
Ronald Nolette
1stCenturyLady

for example...

Who then run to Hebrews to try to prove that they can willfully sin themselves into Hell.
 

Behold

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That's what I believe also. When I had this discussion with a Calvinist once, I told him the same thing, and we agreed on the term Once, Truly Saved, Always Saved. That was to show the difference between the two you just spoke of.

There are people in church that are not born again, and the Holy Spirit is DRAWING them to Christ through knowledge. But to be saved, you have to be born again, and given the power to be sinless, not still willfully sinning but forgiven.

Salvation is not temporary because "Jesus is the one time Eternal sacrifice for sin".

Its God on the Cross.
And His Blood is a Covenant, He made, that is not based on our behavior, after we receive the BLood Atonement.

Also,

2 Timothy 2:13 says that even if you lose your faith, (regarding being Saved)....it does not matter, as that isn't what is keeping you saved, and its not what saved you.
If you have "dead faith", that is not "dead salvation."
God saves us through our Faith.
God is the Savior, not our Faith.
Faith didn't hang on the Cross for our sin.

But if you do... lose your faith..

""""" If we are faithless, GOD remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.""""

2 Timothy 2:13

Philippians 1:6
 

1stCenturyLady

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I can't deny "being NOW made free from sin" because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us" who is the "one time eternal sacrifice for sin"

You can continue to deny it.

Not me.
But that's Calvinism. That is their definition of that verse! Believing our past, present and future sins are forgiven AS WE COMMIT THEM!

I experienced being born again and just the day before I was consumed by my sin. But when I was cleansed of my sin it was totally gone. No more desire to sin.

I think knowing the little I do of you, you don't commit sins unto death - the sins in our sin nature that Jesus takes away, taking us from death to life; but you commit sins NOT unto death, called trespasses that are simply from our cleansed human nature of immature fruit. But being IN Jesus He prunes those so you can grow better fruit and mature the ones you struggle with. 1 John 1:7 talks of those because they cause ruptures in our relationships with one another. We are to forgive each other those trespasses and reconcile, and those trespasses are automatically forgiven. If we refuse to forgive our brethren those little trespasses God won't forgive us. That is why we need to consistently walk in the Spirit. Brotherly kindness will help us forgive.

My backdoor is open, and I hear a raccoon in my living room. Gotta go for now.
 

face2face

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The cleansing blood is only past because that is all that is necessary. When He takes away the DESIRE TO SIN, because he cleanses our sin nature to be sinless, there is not present of future willful sinning anymore. If you think there is then it is you that doesn't know the power of the Cross.
1st, can you show where your nature is changed, so it cannot desire please?
 
J

Johann

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8 and 10 is BEFORE Christ, when we have a sin nature, so saying we don't sin is a lie.

9 is How to become a true Christian who has been cleansed of all unrighteousness at the source - the sin nature, purifying it to be sinless. To mock perfectionism is to mock Jesus to commanded us to be perfect and that He would do it in us. "And you shall be perfect as My father in heaven is perfect."

There is a doctrine of demons who wants us to sin until it is too late. The doctrine is you will always sin as long as you are in these bodies of flesh. If you are willfully sinning when you die expecting Jesus to forgive your past, present and FUTURE sins, the demons win.
Believe what you wish-I don't hold to your doctrines
J.
But that's Calvinism. That is their definition of that verse! Believing our past, present and future sins are forgiven AS WE COMMIT THEM!

I experienced being born again and just the day before I was consumed by my sin. But when I was cleansed of my sin it was totally gone. No more desire to sin.

I think knowing the little I do of you, you don't commit sins unto death - the sins in our sin nature that Jesus takes away, taking us from death to life; but you commit sins NOT unto death, called trespasses that are simply from our cleansed human nature of immature fruit. But being IN Jesus He prunes those so you can grow better fruit and mature the ones you struggle with. 1 John 1:7 talks of those because they cause ruptures in our relationships with one another. We are to forgive each other those trespasses and reconcile, and those trespasses are automatically forgiven. If we refuse to forgive our brethren those little trespasses God won't forgive us. That is why we need to consistently walk in the Spirit. Brotherly kindness will help us forgive.

My backdoor is open, and I hear a raccoon in my living room. Gotta go for now.
 

face2face

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But that's Calvinism. That is their definition of that verse! Believing our past, present and future sins are forgiven AS WE COMMIT THEM!

I experienced being born again and just the day before I was consumed by my sin. But when I was cleansed of my sin it was totally gone. No more desire to sin.

I think knowing the little I do of you, you don't commit sins unto death - the sins in our sin nature that Jesus takes away, taking us from death to life; but you commit sins NOT unto death, called trespasses that are simply from our cleansed human nature of immature fruit. But being IN Jesus He prunes those so you can grow better fruit and mature the ones you struggle with. 1 John 1:7 talks of those because they cause ruptures in our relationships with one another. We are to forgive each other those trespasses and reconcile, and those trespasses are automatically forgiven. If we refuse to forgive our brethren those little trespasses God won't forgive us. That is why we need to consistently walk in the Spirit. Brotherly kindness will help us forgive.

My backdoor is open, and I hear a raccoon in my living room. Gotta go for now.
Re 1 John 1:7 conditional on "If" and also the conditions of verse 9!
Be careful here 1st, I can see your teaching is way outside the bounds of Scripture.
 
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