Clarifying what "body" is.

[ElieG12]

There are many texts in the Bible where the Greek word for "body" is used. That's why it's important to understand some details about what the word "body" in the Bible can mean.

First, let's clarify that angels, although invisible to our eyes, also have a "body" that distinguishes each of them in the spirit world. Obviously, the "substance" that constitutes these spirit-bodies is not the same as the flesh, blood, bones, etc. that make up our living bodies.

An example where understanding this is clarifying is the case with Jesus dying and then being resurrected. Some think that when Jesus died physically after being murdered, he continued to live in another kind of body, and that the word "resurrection" only has to do with "that" physical dead body and not with any kind of body that could represent the living Jesus. Ask yourself: What kind of "body" did Jesus have before he was born as a human?

Another issue that becomes clear when we understand this matter is why the Bible says that Jesus raised "his body" on the third day after he died, since in that case the word "body" has to do with something related to the "spiritual" body that was formed when the first of its members was resurrected, and to which body other members will be attached... the anointed spiritual brothers of Jesus.

Have you ever considered that when the Bible speaks of "body" it is not limited to the bodies we can see?

 

[marks]

Have you ever considered that when the Bible speaks of "body" it is not limited to the bodies we can see?

Context, as they say, is king.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Another issue that becomes clear when we understand this matter is why the Bible says that Jesus raised "his body" on the third day after he died, since in that case the word "body" has to do with something related to the "spiritual" body that was formed when the first of its members was resurrected, and to which body other members will be attached... the anointed spiritual brothers of Jesus.

In this case, considering Jesus made it a point to demonstrate to the disciples that He was NOT a spirit, but had a body, flesh and bone, we can know that is exactly what was true. Jesus resurrected physically from the tomb, in a body that could be felt, touched, He could eat. And He declared He was not just a spirit, but still has a material body.

There is also the body of Christ, composed of those who are in Him. This should not be taken to negate Jesus' teaching and demonstration of His physical resurrection.

Much love!

 

[talons]

First, let's clarify that angels, although invisible to our eyes, also have a "body" that distinguishes each of them in the spirit world.

Do you have scripture that backs up your statement of the angels distinguishing bodies ?

 

[Behold]

the "spiritual" body that was formed when the first of its members was resurrected, and to which body other members will be attached

1 Cor 15:44

1 Cor 15:49

 

[ElieG12]

Do you have scripture that backs up your statement of the angels distinguishing bodies ?

I could mention several texts that prove that angels have individual bodies in a different dimension than ours, but the simple fact that each of them has their own personal name I think is proof enough.

 

[marks]

I could mention several texts that prove that angels have individual bodies in a different dimension than ours, but the simple fact that each of them has their own personal name I think is proof enough.

Yes, it's in the Bible that at least certain ones have individual names, but it would be purely an assumption to claim each have a unique appearance, we don't actually know that.

Much love!

 

[talons]

I could mention several texts that prove that angels have individual bodies in a different dimension than ours, but the simple fact that each of them has their own personal name I think is proof enough.

Oh , I thought you maybe had proof in the scripture to offer . Carry on .

 

[ElieG12]

Oh , I thought you maybe had proof in the scripture to offer . Carry on .

You can check the Scriptures by yourself. Have you never read that all of God's children are presented before him in assembly, or texts that demonstrate that all of them can literally be counted numerically?

If you can't reason your own questions through the answers offered to you, why ask questions?

 

[talons]

You can check the Scriptures by yourself.

Yes I did and you did too and you found nothing in the Bible to prove your statement below about the body of an angel .

First, let's clarify that angels, although invisible to our eyes, also have a "body" that distinguishes each of them in the spirit world.

 

[ElieG12]

Perhaps what you understand as "body" is not what I understand it to mean.

A body doesn't have to be solid or even visible from a human perspective. A "body", IMHO, is anything that can be distinguished independently from its surroundings because since it has a perimeter that limits its presence in a distinguishable way, it becomes countable. Furthermore, it can be given an individual name to define it and also differentiate it from other bodies that are similar to it, that is, to distinguish it from others.

That way I understand it easily explains why angels have individual names; they are presented before God as a group but distinguishable from one another, as in 2 Chron. 18:18-22. It also explains what the angel Gabriel said to Daniel about other spirits in Daniel 10:21, showing that they have their own capacity for independent thought. It also explains why spirits are referred to numerically in Scripture, using terms like myriads of myriads and other numerical expressions.

 

[marks]

Oh , I thought you maybe had proof in the scripture to offer . Carry on .

Not everyone seems to require proof. For myself, I prefer to work with what we actually know.

Much love!

 

[talons]

Perhaps what you understand as "body" is not what I understand it to mean.

A body doesn't have to be solid or even visible from a human perspective. A "body", IMHO, is anything that can be distinguished independently from its surroundings because since it has a perimeter that limits its presence in a distinguishable way, it becomes countable. Furthermore, it can be given an individual name to define it and also differentiate it from other bodies that are similar to it, that is, to distinguish it from others.

That way I understand it easily explains why angels have individual names; they are presented before God as a group but distinguishable from one another, as in 2 Chron. 18:18-22. It also explains what the angel Gabriel said to Daniel about other spirits in Daniel 10:21, showing that they have their own capacity for independent thought. It also explains why spirits are referred to numerically in Scripture, using terms like myriads of myriads and other numerical expressions.

It is way above my pay grade to be counting invisible bodies so I will leave you to it .

 

[Jack]

1 Corinthians 15:44
44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[Davy]

Have you ever considered that when the Bible speaks of "body" it is not limited to the bodies we can see?

Yes, but the majority of brethren are still thinking with their fleshy minds, and rarely try to understand that other realm of Spirit.

For me, it comes natural to consider the things of Spirit.

 

[Davy]

In this case, considering Jesus made it a point to demonstrate to the disciples that He was NOT a spirit, but had a body, flesh and bone, we can know that is exactly what was true. Jesus resurrected physically from the tomb, in a body that could be felt, touched, He could eat. And He declared He was not just a spirit, but still has a material body.

There is also the body of Christ, composed of those who are in Him. This should not be taken to negate Jesus' teaching and demonstration of His physical resurrection.

Much love!

That is mostly 'assumed', while making sure NOT to include 'other' Bible witnesses about Jesus' resurrection...

Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 taught that the body TYPE of the resurrection is a "spiritual body", NOT a new flesh body...

1 Cor 15:44-50
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Lord Jesus represents that "last Adam". Notice Paul said Jesus was "made a quickening spirit." Apostle John said that GOD is a Spirit (John 4:24).

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Paul is referring to the man with the change to the "spiritual body" as that "second man" represented by Lord Jesus' resurrection.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

Those who think the type body of the resurrection is to a material fleshy body show they have yet to understand the two separate dimensions of existence written of in God's Word. Apostle Paul points to those two different dimensions in the above.

The dimension of Spirit is where GOD and the angels dwell, even the abode of hell and the wicked dead. That also is where our Lord Jesus Christ is now. And because Paul says flesh and blood CANNOT inherit that realm of Spirit with the kingdom of God, this all means WHAT?

It means one MUST interpret the Luke 24:39 with Jesus saying a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones as they saw Him have, according to the Scripture references Apostle Paul gave in the above.

What do I believe then? -- I believe Lord Jesus' literal flesh body was raised from the dead, but NOT YET CHANGED to a "quickening spirit" when He appeared to His disciples. When He ASCENDED to Heaven from the Mount of Olives, with His disciples seeing Him go up in a cloud, that... is when I believe Jesus' flesh body was changed to that "quickening spirit" which Apostle Paul taught in the above 1 Cor.15:45 verse. But that still does not settle the matter of how Lord Jesus suddenly appeared out of nowhere to His disciples, and literally disappeared right in front of them too. That doesn't reveal a flesh body that can enter a closed off room.

And thus also, Jesus' Spirit body retained the marks of His crucifixion as a remembrance of what He did for us on His cross.

HOWEVER... per Genesis 18, one of the "three men" that appeared at Abraham's tent door was our Lord Jesus Christ PRIOR to His being born in the flesh. And per that Scripture Abraham prepared food and drink for them, and they did eat. Same thing with the two angels sent to Lot, as Lot had food prepared for them also. That means the "spiritual body" state IS ABLE TO EAT MAN'S FOOD and live upon this earth. And we know flesh man is able to eat angel's food, the heavenly manna which God rained down to earth for the Israelites in the wilderness. This shows the two separate dimensions have more similarities than what most think.

 

[marks]

That is mostly 'assumed', while making sure NOT to include 'other' Bible witnesses about Jesus' resurrection...

Thank you for your opinion! I think you may be assuming I mean the same kind of flesh as we have, but obviously that is not so. Nonetheless . . . Jesus rose physically from the dead. He made a real big deal out of showing that was so.

Muych love!

 

[marks]

What do I believe then? -- I believe Lord Jesus' literal flesh body was raised from the dead, but NOT YET CHANGED to a "quickening spirit" when He appeared to His disciples. When He ASCENDED to Heaven from the Mount of Olives, with His disciples seeing Him go up in a cloud, that... is when I believe Jesus' flesh body was changed to that "quickening spirit" which Apostle Paul taught in the above 1 Cor.15:45 verse. But that still does not settle the matter of how Lord Jesus suddenly appeared out of nowhere to His disciples, and literally disappeared right in front of them too. That doesn't reveal a flesh body that can enter a closed off room.

1 Corinthians 15:39-44 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

The simple answer is that while there are different kinds of bodies, Jesus rose phyically, as we shall be physically resurrected. No, not the same kind of body, but a body just the same.

Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Thank you for your opinion! I think you may be assuming I mean the same kind of flesh as we have, but obviously that is not so. Nonetheless . . . Jesus rose physically from the dead. He made a real big deal out of showing that was so.

Muych love!

Yes, but His flesh was changed to a quickening Spirit, suggesting like the Spirit body He had before. That is why His flesh body was never found.

Our resurrection won't happen like that. At flesh death, our flesh body immediately goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, like Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 does reveal. But our 'spirit', meaning our "spiritual body", goes back to God Who gave it. And per 2 Cor.5 Paul did teach that we already have the "spiritual body" dwelling inside our flesh.

Those still alive on earth on the day of Christ's future coming will simply cast off their flesh body to reveal their already existing "spiritual body", which is the REAL person. Our flesh is not 'us', it is only a shell for our spirit and soul, the real us.