- Dec 24, 2009
- 57
- 4
- 0
Hammerstone --
I hope you don't mind if I bring this up so that it can be answered with scripture. There was another thread on Purgatory, but no one really gave a Bible answer. Please delete this post or lock it if you do not wish it to be discussed.
The reason that Protestants do not believe in cleansing of sin after death comes from a peculiar doctrine which was made up during the Reformation. This doctrine had never existed in the Church prior to 1517. It is called "forensic justification" and the scripture references that are given for it are found in Romans 4.
The idea of "forensic justification" is based in the idea that man is "totally depraved" and therefore, can do no good at all, even as a believer. It comes from this verse, among others.
We see here that Abraham was a believer. He had faith in God. Yet in "forensic justification", it is said that Abraham was not righteous, so God gave to Abraham the righteousness of another to make up for his lack of righteousness. He was given preveniently the righteousness of Christ, since he (Abraham) did not have any of his own. This is the meaning that they give to the word "imputed".
It is then said of believers in this age that when be believe and "accept Jesus" (another concept not known to the Early Church), we are in similar manner "imputed" the righteousness of Christ so that God sees us as perfectly righteous. I have heard it described as "when God looks at you, all He sees is Jesus and His perfect righteousness."
Now, of course, if this is true, then indeed we have no need at all for any cleansing after death, since not only are we covered by Christ's perfect righteousness, but we are also legally declared innocent of any crime against God.
There is just one problem with this:
That is not what the meaning of the Greek conveys. Let's look a bit closer at the wording. All quotes I am about to give are from the PROTESTANT Blue Letter Bible Online -- KJV edition.
Rom 4:3 τί γὰρ ἡ γραφὴ λέγει Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην
The word in this verse which is translated "counted" is "logisomai" -- λογίζομαι.
Note the part in red. This is very important. It states that the word means that we are dealing with REALITY. In other words, when God looked at Abraham, He saw a righteous man and counted it as such. God said to Himself "Abraham is a righteous man"
And why is that? Because faith is righteousness.
The righteousness of faith. In other words, to have faith is to be righteous. Therefore, when Abraham exercised faith, he was righteous because he had done righteousness. In the same understanding, i.e, that God deals with us just as we are, then if one sins, he loses righteousness.
John says the same thing:
If you do righteousness, you are righteous. It's really that simple. God deals with us as we are, and the goal of our life is not to be "hidden in Christ", but rather to have an ontological change which makes us like unto Him.
Therefore, since God deals with us as we are, if we die with unconfessed sin upon our soul, we must be cleansed of that sin. Forensic justification is not true because it does not reflect the meaning of the Greek word "logizomai", which is to count what is really there. When God looks at us, He "logizomai" us, that is, He regards us as we are and counts what we are -- either righteous because we have been doing righteousness, or unrighteous because we have been in sin.
**An interesting side note: As an Eastern Christian, we do not believe in Purgatory as a *place, but rather as a state of being cleansed. We do not speak of time in purgation, nor of a place. In the Eastern Church, we see the very presence of God as a cleansing fire, and by the fact that we are in His presence as believers, all that is not like Him (sin) is burned away as dross from gold. His presence is a fiery love which makes us clean and fit to love Him in purity.
I hope you don't mind if I bring this up so that it can be answered with scripture. There was another thread on Purgatory, but no one really gave a Bible answer. Please delete this post or lock it if you do not wish it to be discussed.
The reason that Protestants do not believe in cleansing of sin after death comes from a peculiar doctrine which was made up during the Reformation. This doctrine had never existed in the Church prior to 1517. It is called "forensic justification" and the scripture references that are given for it are found in Romans 4.
The idea of "forensic justification" is based in the idea that man is "totally depraved" and therefore, can do no good at all, even as a believer. It comes from this verse, among others.
Rom. 4: 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness.
We see here that Abraham was a believer. He had faith in God. Yet in "forensic justification", it is said that Abraham was not righteous, so God gave to Abraham the righteousness of another to make up for his lack of righteousness. He was given preveniently the righteousness of Christ, since he (Abraham) did not have any of his own. This is the meaning that they give to the word "imputed".
It is then said of believers in this age that when be believe and "accept Jesus" (another concept not known to the Early Church), we are in similar manner "imputed" the righteousness of Christ so that God sees us as perfectly righteous. I have heard it described as "when God looks at you, all He sees is Jesus and His perfect righteousness."
Now, of course, if this is true, then indeed we have no need at all for any cleansing after death, since not only are we covered by Christ's perfect righteousness, but we are also legally declared innocent of any crime against God.
There is just one problem with this:
That is not what the meaning of the Greek conveys. Let's look a bit closer at the wording. All quotes I am about to give are from the PROTESTANT Blue Letter Bible Online -- KJV edition.
Rom 4:3 τί γὰρ ἡ γραφὴ λέγει Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ θεῷ καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην
The word in this verse which is translated "counted" is "logisomai" -- λογίζομαι.
1) to reckon, count, compute, calculate, count over a) to take into account, to make an account of
1) metaph. to pass to one's account, to impute
2) a thing is reckoned as or to be something, i.e. as availing for or equivalent to something, as having the like force and weight
B) to number among, reckon with
c) to reckon or account
2) to reckon inward, count up or weigh the reasons, to deliberate
3) by reckoning up all the reasons, to gather or infer
a) to consider, take into account, weigh, meditate on
B) to suppose, deem, judge
c) to determine, purpose, decide
This word deals with reality. If I reckon (logizomai) that my bank book has $25 in it, it has $25 in it. Otherwise I am deceiving myself. This word refers more to fact than supposition or opinion.
Note the part in red. This is very important. It states that the word means that we are dealing with REALITY. In other words, when God looked at Abraham, He saw a righteous man and counted it as such. God said to Himself "Abraham is a righteous man"
And why is that? Because faith is righteousness.
Rom 4: 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
The righteousness of faith. In other words, to have faith is to be righteous. Therefore, when Abraham exercised faith, he was righteous because he had done righteousness. In the same understanding, i.e, that God deals with us just as we are, then if one sins, he loses righteousness.
John says the same thing:
1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
If you do righteousness, you are righteous. It's really that simple. God deals with us as we are, and the goal of our life is not to be "hidden in Christ", but rather to have an ontological change which makes us like unto Him.
Therefore, since God deals with us as we are, if we die with unconfessed sin upon our soul, we must be cleansed of that sin. Forensic justification is not true because it does not reflect the meaning of the Greek word "logizomai", which is to count what is really there. When God looks at us, He "logizomai" us, that is, He regards us as we are and counts what we are -- either righteous because we have been doing righteousness, or unrighteous because we have been in sin.
**An interesting side note: As an Eastern Christian, we do not believe in Purgatory as a *place, but rather as a state of being cleansed. We do not speak of time in purgation, nor of a place. In the Eastern Church, we see the very presence of God as a cleansing fire, and by the fact that we are in His presence as believers, all that is not like Him (sin) is burned away as dross from gold. His presence is a fiery love which makes us clean and fit to love Him in purity.