Coming Antichrist Is Not Of Islam

[revturmoil]

Richard said,

Where, in Scripture, does it say that the Jewish people will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah?...My Scripture tells me that Satan and his Antichrist and their "Kingdom of the Antichrist"/empire will persecute the Jews of Israel (Rev 12:1, 13-14).

Well here is Rev. 12:1, 13, 14 and I just have no idea how you see the Jews accepting the man of sin.

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

v.13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].

v.14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

I see persecution but that in no way indicates the Jews have accepted the man of sin.

TRY AGAIN!

And we must keep in mind that the "peace treaty" between the Antichrist and the Rabbinic authorities of Israel will be necessary because of "The War of Gog and Magog" ( Dan 9:27;

DAN 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:...

The word covenant is briyth ber-eeth' from 1262 (in the sense of cutting (like 1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):--confederacy, (con-)feder(-ate), covenant, league.

I don't believe in a peace treaty or that a temple that needs to be rebuilt.

The word covenant means alliance or confederacy. This isn't a peace treaty! Confederacy's are always made with friends. Israel and it's neighbors will never become allies! Peace treaties are made with enemies and are all different than a confederacy. What is mentioned in Daniel 9:27 is not a peace treaty. It's an alliance of nations who want to destroy Israel! It's the globalist that have mis-interpreted this. This verse doesn't mean that the man of sin will have a global empire which Israel would be a part of.

The experts would like you to believe that the "covenant with many" includes Israel. And some experts teach that this covenant encompasses the entire world. This covenant is an 'alliance' of 10 Arab/Muslim nations who want to see the name of Israel be no more in remembrance. Either Ezekiel 38-39 or Psalm 83.

Eze 38, 39). The second half of Daniel's Seventieth Week is the three and one-half years of the Great Tribulation Period where the Antichrist, and his False prophet, and the empire they control will wreak havoc on the Jews of Jerusalem and Israel and the Church throughout the world (Matt 24)...

I'm not sure if you're talking globalism but the anti-christ empire will not be global but limited to his ten nation Islamic empire that invades Israel and takes control of East Jerusalem. Within that empire is where the most persecution will occur. But even as we speak Christians suffer persecution from Muslim's almost all over the world. The jihadist will be the ones to bring the world the opening day of tribulation, But that doesn't mean that the world is subjct to the anti-christ kingdom, it only means that his followers....the radical multitudes of Muhammad, bring worldwide death and disease.

SO! Show me a verse that say's the anti-christ empire will include Israel. And show me a verse that says the church or Israel would accept the man of sin.

Good Luck!

The whole point of the Antichrist's persecuting anyone, Jewish, Christian or otherwise, is their refusal to worship him as God (Jesus Christ). Because this rejection of him begins in the newly rebuilt Jewish Temple atop Mount Moriah and its Rabbinic authorities, one can infer, then, that it is the Rabbinic authorities of Judaism who refuse to worship him first; thus they will be the first to be persecuted...

I don't believe that's totally true either. I see the abomination of desolation authenticating himself in the Dome of the Rock or al'aqsa mosque. It wouldn't surprise me to see Jews required to worship the beast, but that doesn't mean they have accepted him as their messiah.

How would a global dictator get the masses to bow to him??? How and with whose military would a global dictator get all the countries of the world to side with him and give their power to him?? The beast has 7 heads and ten horns and no more. Those who are under his control or within his kingdom would be persecuted anyway for being an 'infidel.' But that's going on in the Arab world now anyway.

Moreover, the Antichrist and his False Prophet must have an empire and its vast army to carry out their dictates...Moreover, the Antichrist must have control over Islam, because he gives permission for the Jewish people to rebuild their Temple atop Mount Moriah beside the third most holy site in all of Islam - The Dome of the Rock...There is no other man, no other government, no other entity of any sort on planet earth, other than the Islamic eschatological figure known as "Jesus, son of Mary" who will have the authority to make peace with Israel, and in so doing, allow the Jews to share the Temple Mount with Islam.

You see I disagree with most of what you just said. What makes you think that a man will come in the literal name of Jesus who Israel will accept and allow the Jews to rebuild their temple ...And what makes you thnk Israel will accept a false messiah anyway??? I do believe that the Muslim jesus is coming but not that Israel will accept him. And what verses do you use to support the idea that the anti-christ kingdom would encompass the entire planet???What makes you think that every world government would just relinquish their political authority to "ONE MAN"! Where is this man going to get his military? The only religion and area of the world capable of fulfilling bible prophecy is the Arab Muslim World. Islam is the religion of the two horned beast and the ten nation Islamic Empire of the beast is on it's way. And so are seal 3 and four.....'horsemen is pairs'!
No global empire, dictator, or unified one world religion will come. Islam/Babylon the Great is here and she will lead the world into tribulation!

Forwarded from James Novak, author of "Ora's Boy".

Very powerful, and frightening and hopefully..........wrong.

Subject:
Please Read and Forward
Probably the most serious and consequential read you will receive this month, perhaps, this year. Please keep it moving.

In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: "Who lost Europe?"
Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, Chairman, Party for Freedom, the Netherlands, at the
Four Seasons, New York, introducing an Alliance of Patriots and announcing the 'Facing Jihad Conference in Jerusalem'.

Dear friends;

Thank you very much for inviting me. I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world.

There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic.

We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States is the last bastion of Western civilization facing an Islamic Europe.

First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe. Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in Jerusalem.

The Europe you know is changing.

You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world. It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.

All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are, they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead with mosques on many street corners. The shops have signs you and I cannot read them. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe. These are the building-blocks for territorial control of increasingly larger portions of Europe, street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.

There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe. With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: "we rule".

Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseille and Malmo in Sweden. In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.

In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.

Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin.

In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin. The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.

In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels, because he was drinking during the Ramadan.

Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run from the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya, Israel. I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.

A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe. San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end
of this century.

Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few signs of that. The Pew Research Center reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France. One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim students are in favor of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have Muslim official state holidays.

The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with passports from Morocco
and Turkey.

Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behavior, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'. Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam. Therefore, they are settlers.

Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighborhoods, their cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.

The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now, if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one,
there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord, a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.

Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.

Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel. First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.

This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad, like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines, Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan, Lebanon, and Aceh in Indonesia. Israel is simply in the way. The same way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.

The war against Israel is not a war against Israel. It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant for all of us. If there would have been no Israel, Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and dream, unaware of the dangers looming.

Many in Europe argue in favor of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go down, it would not bring any solace to the West. It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behavior, and accept our values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel, they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to label any and all critics of Islamization as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands, 60 percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome, Athens and Jerusalem.

Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe, American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.

We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know.


　

 

[veteran]

Not understanding how the orthodox Jews will fall away to worship the coming false messiah is a sign of deception in itself.

That's why the idea that the coming Antichrist will be an Islamic figure shows deception, because even orthodox Jews would NEVER bow to an Islamic figure saying he is The Christ Messiah. The orthodox Jews just aren't that ignorant of the Biblical requirements for Messiah.

That's why the coming Antichrist will come in place of God The Saviour, The Christ, and will fit orthodox Jew's Biblical understanding about The Messiah of God's Word, and not some drummed up Islamic 'messiah' which never has existed in the first place!

As a matter of fact, just applying the word 'Messiah' to any religious figure of Islam is yet another false deceptive lie.

 

[tgwprophet]

This Beast that commits the Abomination of Desolation must have a certain measure of acceptance by the Jews. Most likely after he calls himself messiah the Jews reject him. So, before he calls himself messiah there must be some political/religious maneuver that allows him access to the inner-sanctum. I wonder... could it be because the Arc is in there and the Jews figure if he touches it, it will kill him - end of problem?

Counterfiet Jew, Shah, Ayatollah or Pope, this Beast must have some religious connection allowing a political maneuver for a decietful peace.
Veteran, the Beast could be allowed IF the Jewish High priest is also the False Prophet and helps make this happen. Or IF Israel's President is also the False Prophet and helps make this happen. Now.... since ( and if ) the Gentiles have beeen troddening the courtyard during the construction of the Temple and it culminates at the time JUST preceeding the Abomination of Desolation... is it possible it is given no more concern than a ttile setter? I think not... but...

 

[revturmoil]

Not understanding how the orthodox Jews will fall away to worship the coming false messiah is a sign of deception in itself.

That's why the idea that the coming Antichrist will be an Islamic figure shows deception, because even orthodox Jews would NEVER bow to an Islamic figure saying he is The Christ Messiah. The orthodox Jews just aren't that ignorant of the Biblical requirements for Messiah.

That's why the coming Antichrist will come in place of God The Saviour, The Christ, and will fit orthodox Jew's Biblical understanding about The Messiah of God's Word, and not some drummed up Islamic 'messiah' which never has existed in the first place!

As a matter of fact, just applying the word 'Messiah' to any religious figure of Islam is yet another false deceptive lie.

You obviously don't understand Islam and the threat it poses to the world. And you don't understand what 'apostasy' really is. And, you obviously don't understand that Islam's prophetic scenario is about identical to bible prophecy. The only mistake you have ever admitted to on this forum is when you tried to tell me that Nebuchadnezzar's yoke of iron was already broken....but you blamed that on 'your memory'! You have no idea on how to be 'unbiased' in your studies. You guy's also spend way too much time trying to figure out Daniel's 70th week which I believe has done more to mislead Christian's than help them understand bible prophecy! AND! You have no clue how to interpret simple words like 'all' and 'if' which misleads you into believing all sorts of things that will never come to pass. If you did come clean and interpret the word all correctly, you would see that there's no such thing as 'globalism' in prophecy. But then....You would have to admit that you made a mistake and believed something that was in error. But the words "I made a mistake" is seldom found in a Christian's vocabulary, especially on forums.

The bottom line is you just don't get it or you refuse to get it! Of course you haven't provided me with any scriptural evidence to support your beliefs. Just more of the same baseless stuff that the experts have deluded you with. Israel will never bow to an Islamic figure....and that's what I've been saying all along. It's the false teaching of 'globalism' that the experts have deceived Christian's like yourself. There will never be a global dictator or world empire and the church will never be grafted into a unified global religion. A peace treaty with Israel will never come to pass. But just so I can once again debunk your globalist theory, show me a verse that say's that the church or Israel will accept the man of sin, or that the kingdom of the anti-christ would be a global empire! You seem to think that the man of sin will come in the literal name of Christ....Show me a verse that say's that!
Maybe if you understood the words 'all' and 'IF'....that would also help keep you out of believing something that isn't true!

So my bottom line is that there will be no global empire. No global dictator. No peace treaty with Israel. No rebuilt temple. The men of sin will not come from within the church. The church and Israel will not accept the man of sin. And above all there will not be a pre-trib or pr-wrath rapture which is a flagrant perversion of God's Word!

 

[tgwprophet]

kaoticprofit wrote in reference to Veteran's posts and understanding:
" So my bottom line is that there will be no global empire. No global dictator. No peace treaty with Israel. No rebuilt temple. The men of sin will not come from within the church. The church and Israel will not accept the man of sin. And above all there will not be a pre-trib or pr-wrath rapture which is a flagrant perversion of God's Word! "

As far as the rapture.. i sincerely hope you are in it. the rapture is not for those that know, but for those that know not.
Kaotic... Sorry but Veteran and I (though our event timelines differ and some other things too ) are in agreement. Really there already IS a global empire... it is here it is in force - though there are many countries that do not belong... these same countries feel the full effect as they know they cannot come against this global empire called the UN. That makes the leader of the UN a Global Leader... just not acting as it yet...and unless this leader can impose other methods to arrive at the desired end. pact, peace treaty, alliance, covenant, weekend barbeque...whatever semantics one uses to describe a unified decision preventing war.. will take place.

No re-built temple? where then is the inner-sanctum to be... inside the dome of the rock? Standing alone in the courtyard? - I know that if the Domee of the Rock is still standing and IF the location of the Temple is to be where the Dome of the Rock is... when the two witnesses take power..along with other things on their agenda... removal of the dome of the rock will be one of their priorities, along with extending the boundaries of Israel to their rightful position and evicting all the arabs from those boundaries. Of course Israel will not "like" that as it will cause distain between them and the arabs and yet secretly they will be glad. these things are not guesses... but remember I said " if " they had not already been done.

 

[revturmoil]

As far as the rapture.. i sincerely hope you are in it. the rapture is not for those that know, but for those that know not.

I have no idea what you're talking about! The rapture is for those that know not...WHAT?

Kaotic... Sorry but Veteran and I (though our event timelines differ and some other things too ) are in agreement.

What does it matter if you two are in agreement. Actually most of Christiandom is in agreement with you guys and I see no such evidence of globalism in scripture. It all comes from the mis-interpretation of the word all, earth, and world.....and the refusal to consider other views of prophecy!

Really there already IS a global empire... it is here it is in force - though there are many countries that do not belong... these same countries feel the full effect as they know they cannot come against this global empire called the UN. That makes the leader of the UN a Global Leader... just not acting as it yet...and unless this leader can impose other methods to arrive at the desired end. pact, peace treaty, alliance, covenant, weekend barbeque...whatever semantics one uses to describe a unified decision preventing war.. will take place.

The UN is powerless! It has been for 40 years. How many times do the theories of the prophecy experts have to change before you guys see the light? The beast has nothing to do with the UN, NATO, Rome ot the EU. The beast has ten horns. The UN has 192 member states. That is just way off. Besides. Daniel 2 and 8 say the origin of the beast are of Arab origin! The scriptures are clear for those who are open minded and haven't latched onto misleading and false theories. Scriptures are clear that the beast(s) will come from the geographical area of the Grecian Empire. The iron and clay of Daniel 2:41-43 in no way depict the UN, The EU, or NATO. It describes the ARABS!

No re-built temple? where then is the inner-sanctum to be... inside the dome of the rock? Standing alone in the courtyard? - I know that if the Domee of the Rock is still standing and IF the location of the Temple is to be where the Dome of the Rock is... when the two witnesses take power..along with other things on their agenda... removal of the dome of the rock will be one of their priorities, along with extending the boundaries of Israel to their rightful position and evicting all the arabs from those boundaries. Of course Israel will not "like" that as it will cause distain between them and the arabs and yet secretly they will be glad. these things are not guesses... but remember I said " if " they had not already been done.

A rebuilt temple is 'almost' a total fabrication. It isn't a biblical teaching at all! And like I said several times...You all need hermeneutics 101! Here's where you guys go wrong.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The holy place...not a rebuilt temple.

Mark 13:14 (NIV84)
14 "When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

A better translation of Daniel 9:27. The word temple isn't used!
Daniel 9:27 ??And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
FYI...This covenant isn't a peace treaty. It's a confederacy! Big difference! And Israel has nothing to do with it other than get invaded by 'that confederacy'!

31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.
Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Sanctuary means "sacred place" not a temple.
And again. How do you come up with the rebuilding of a temple???

11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
So what you're saying is that the Dome of the Rock needs to be destroyed so a temple can be be rebuilt so that animal sacrifes can resume only to have them cease!

The 'Holy place' of Mathew 24 isn't the "holy of holies."

In Hebrews 9:25 the holy place is...
http://www.bluelette...rongs=G39&t=KJV
In Acts 21:28 and Mt. 24:15 the holy place is a little different...
http://www.bluelette...rongs=G40&t=KJV
http://www.bluelette...ngs=G5117&t=KJV

If Jesus or the author of Acts wanted to indicate the "holy of holies" in Mathew 24:15 he would have likely used this word...bold is mine.

2665. katapetasma kat-ap-et'-as-mah from a compound of 2596 and a congener of 4072; something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen
(to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple:--vail.
http://www.eliyah.co...on&isindex=2665

The holy place in Mathew 24:15 is not the Holy of Holies but simply the surrounding area of it as described above and below in #5117.

1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2) metaph.
a) the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for acting

 

[veteran]

This Beast that commits the Abomination of Desolation must have a certain measure of acceptance by the Jews. Most likely after he calls himself messiah the Jews reject him. So, before he calls himself messiah there must be some political/religious maneuver that allows him access to the inner-sanctum. I wonder... could it be because the Arc is in there and the Jews figure if he touches it, it will kill him - end of problem?

In 165-170 B.C. Antiochus IV, a Syrian, took Jerusalem, ended the sacrifice, and desolated the inside of the temple, and then setup an idol in the temple to Zeus. That was a pattern only.

Around 135 A.D., the Roman Hadrian built a temple to Jupiter on the temple mount in Jerusalem where the destroyed 2nd temple had stood. That was a pattern only.

Around 691 A.D., the Muslims built the Dome of The Rock on the temple mount. That's still a pattern only.

What the coming 'pseudo-Christ' is going to do will be different; he's actually going to deceive the majority into thinking he is God, literally, and for orthodox Jews that means their Messiah. No miracles like the 2nd beast is shown doing has ever been fulfilled by any of the previous establishings of false worship in Jerusalem per its history. That's why this last one is going to be different. And that's why our Lord Jesus and His Apostles revealed that it will take the majority by surprise, and even almost deceive His own elect per Matthew 24:23-26. This is why Apostle Paul referred to it as the "strong delusion" in 2 Thessalonians 2.

So no one is going to 'allow' the Antichrist to be their Messiah. He is going to proclaim himself as God and show miracles to prove it, deceiving the majority. But he will not be our Lord Jesus Christ.

You obviously don't understand Islam and the threat it poses to the world. And you don't understand what 'apostasy' really is. And, you obviously don't understand that Islam's prophetic scenario is about identical to bible prophecy. The only mistake you have ever admitted to on this forum is when you tried to tell me that Nebuchadnezzar's yoke of iron was already broken....but you blamed that on 'your memory'! You have no idea on how to be 'unbiased' in your studies. You guy's also spend way too much time trying to figure out Daniel's 70th week which I believe has done more to mislead Christian's than help them understand bible prophecy! AND! You have no clue how to interpret simple words like 'all' and 'if' which misleads you into believing all sorts of things that will never come to pass. If you did come clean and interpret the word all correctly, you would see that there's no such thing as 'globalism' in prophecy. But then....You would have to admit that you made a mistake and believed something that was in error. But the words "I made a mistake" is seldom found in a Christian's vocabulary, especially on forums.

The bottom line is you just don't get it or you refuse to get it! Of course you haven't provided me with any scriptural evidence to support your beliefs. Just more of the same baseless stuff that the experts have deluded you with. Israel will never bow to an Islamic figure....and that's what I've been saying all along. It's the false teaching of 'globalism' that the experts have deceived Christian's like yourself. There will never be a global dictator or world empire and the church will never be grafted into a unified global religion. A peace treaty with Israel will never come to pass. But just so I can once again debunk your globalist theory, show me a verse that say's that the church or Israel will accept the man of sin, or that the kingdom of the anti-christ would be a global empire! You seem to think that the man of sin will come in the literal name of Christ....Show me a verse that say's that!
Maybe if you understood the words 'all' and 'IF'....that would also help keep you out of believing something that isn't true!

So my bottom line is that there will be no global empire. No global dictator. No peace treaty with Israel. No rebuilt temple. The men of sin will not come from within the church. The church and Israel will not accept the man of sin. And above all there will not be a pre-trib or pr-wrath rapture which is a flagrant perversion of God's Word!

But I do 'get it', meaning what God's Word teaches about the events of the end involving the GLOBALIST'S ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT system that is the 1st BEAST of Revelation 13:1-2. You obviously don't 'get it', and thus are on the road to grave deception, unless you wake up to the times.

You appear also to rely MORE on the OT prophets like Daniel about the events of the end instead of noticing where Christ and His Apostles gave MORE DETAILS about those same events. Christians that have both those OT and NT prophecies together have a lot more information than you do. And that might just reveal who all you're listening to, orthodox Jewish fables instead of Christ's Word of The New Testament Scriptures.

What does it latter if you two are in agreement. Actually most of Christiandom is in agreement with you guys and I see no such evidence of globalism in scripture. It all comes from the mis-interpretation of the word all, earth, and world.....and the refusal to consider other views of prophecy!

Like there's something wrong with many other Christians being in agreement? Is there a problem with that per your view?

When Jesus said the 'waters' John saw represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues", how is that NOT the idea of one-world globalism?

The UN is powerless! It has been for 40 years. How many times do the theories of the prophecy experts have to change before you guys see the light? The beast has nothing to do with the UN, NATO, Rome ot the EU. The beast has ten horns. The UN has 192 member states. That is just way off. Besides. Daniel 2 and 8 say the origin of the beast are of Arab origin! The scriptures are clear for those who are open minded and haven't latched onto misleading and false theories. Scriptures are clear that the beast(s) will come from the geographical area of the Grecian Empire. The iron and clay of Daniel 2:41-43 in no way depict the UN, The EU, or NATO. It describes the ARABS!

The beasts will originate from Greece? Now that's really bright. Since when are they an Arab people? The Grecian empire of the Book of Daniel was history, so you're way behind the time schedule.

The beast kingdom in Daniel associated with the ten toes of iron mixed with clay INCLUDES ALL the previous beast statue image parts. Shouldn't that have given you a huge clue as to GLOBALISM FOR THE FINAL ONE?

No, but you'd rather listen to orthodox Judaism's idea that it's the Arabs again!

A rebuilt temple is 'almost' a total fabrication. It isn't a biblical teaching at all! And like I said several times...You all need hermeneutics 101! Here's where you guys go wrong.

Maybe you ought to try telling that to the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem today that already have cornerstones cut for that new temple. (Land of Israel and Temple Mount Faithful). Heck, they've already been doing passover sacrifices on a hill overlooking the temple mount for the past several years!

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The holy place...not a rebuilt temple.

The holy place referred to there is the same holy place mentioned here...

Heb 9:25
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
(KJV)


It's obvious you're not here to share in God's Word, but to deceive as many Christians as you can.

 

[revturmoil]

But I do 'get it', meaning what God's Word teaches about the events of the end involving the GLOBALIST'S ONE-WORLD GOVERNMENT system that is the 1st BEAST of Revelation 13:1-2. You obviously don't 'get it', and thus are on the road to grave deception, unless you wake up to the times.

And I'm going to give you the same bible lesson on those verses AGAIN!
There are over 130 words for all and it is used some 7 or 8 different ways. Rev. 13 isn't a good chapter to use to support globalism. But it is a good chapter to explain some of the different ways the word all is used, and a good one to prove globalism wrong.
It is said about the first beast...

Revelation 13:7 　And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 　And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The word used in Rev. 13:7-8 is 'pas.'

If 'holos' was used it would mean the entire world.

"Pas" means the whole of one object and that object is the beast. And it means "the totality of the persons or things referred to." So the verse isn't implying the entire planet. In this case it means all kindreds, and tongues, and nations that are under his authority and control of the beast...those kindreds, and tongues, and nations within his kingdom.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV

This is the word 'pas'.
1.
individually
a)
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2)
collectively
a)
some of all types

Revelation 13 explains the differences between all '(pas)' and all '(holos)'. And I've shown this to you before.

Revelation 13:3 　And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Here the word all is 'holos' and it does indicate the entire world.

The entire world will wonder after the beast because he once was (alive) and yet lives!
http://www.bluelette...50&t=KJVAnother

Another mistake many make is in their interpretation of the words world and earth. They presume that it always means the entire planet. Those words can mean land, the ground, the earth as a whole, the inhabited earth, a country, land enclosed within fixed bounderies, a tract of land, a territory, or a region. 'Earth' often does not mean the entire earth and the use of the word all is often what determines how to interpret the word world and earth.

Here are other examples of the word 'pas.' (all)-individually where it doesn't mean the entirety of the whole.

3 John 1:12 　¶Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.

All men did not know Demetrius and he didn't know all men!

Matthew 12:15 　But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

Not everyone was sick so Jesus didn't heal the multitudes but only the sick!

Matthew 21:10 　And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?

Do you think that the entire city was moved and said, 'Who is this?'

There are dozens of examples of this in scripture and I have posted many of them for you on another thread.

Like there's something wrong with many other Christians being in agreement? Is there a problem with that per your view?

When Jesus said the 'waters' John saw represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues", how is that NOT the idea of one-world globalism?

There's nothing wrong about being in agreement. There is something wrong about being in agreement about something WRONG!
And you are wrong about 'globalism'! Globalism also contradicts the "ten horned" beast!

You appear also to rely MORE on the OT prophets like Daniel about the events of the end instead of noticing where Christ and His Apostles gave MORE DETAILS about those same events. Christians that have both those OT and NT prophecies together have a lot more information than you do. And that might just reveal who all you're listening to, orthodox Jewish fables instead of Christ's Word of The New Testament Scriptures.

I see you're up to your old 'presumptuous' self again. And I don't listen to Jewish fables nor do I listen to yours!

 

[veteran]

And I'm going to give you the same bible lesson on those verses AGAIN!
There are over 130 words for all and it is used some 7 or 8 different ways. Rev. 13 isn't a good chapter to use to support globalism. But it is a good chapter to explain some of the different ways the word all is used, and a good one to prove globalism wrong.
It is said about the first beast...

Revelation 13:7 　And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 　And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The word used in Rev. 13:7-8 is 'pas.'

If 'holos' was used it would mean the entire world.

"Pas" means the whole of one object and that object is the beast. And it means "the totality of the persons or things referred to." So the verse isn't implying the entire planet. In this case it means all kindreds, and tongues, and nations that are under his authority and control of the beast...those kindreds, and tongues, and nations within his kingdom.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3956&t=KJV

This is the word 'pas'.
1.
individually
a)
each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2)
collectively
a)
some of all types

Revelation 13 explains the differences between all '(pas)' and all '(holos)'. And I've shown this to you before.

Revelation 13:3 　And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Here the word all is 'holos' and it does indicate the entire world.

The entire world will wonder after the beast because he once was (alive) and yet lives!
http://www.bluelette...50&t=KJVAnother

Another mistake many make is in their interpretation of the words world and earth. They presume that it always means the entire planet. Those words can mean land, the ground, the earth as a whole, the inhabited earth, a country, land enclosed within fixed bounderies, a tract of land, a territory, or a region. 'Earth' often does not mean the entire earth and the use of the word all is often what determines how to interpret the word world and earth.

Here are other examples of the word 'pas.' (all)-individually where it doesn't mean the entirety of the whole.

3 John 1:12 　¶Demetrius hath good report of all men, and of the truth itself: yea, and we also bear record; and ye know that our record is true.

All men did not know Demetrius and he didn't know all men!

Matthew 12:15 　But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;

Not everyone was sick so Jesus didn't heal the multitudes but only the sick!

Matthew 21:10 　And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?

Do you think that the entire city was moved and said, 'Who is this?'

There are dozens of examples of this in scripture and I have posted many of them for you on another thread.



There's nothing wrong about being in agreement. There is something wrong about being in agreement about something WRONG!
And you are wrong about 'globalism'! Globalism also contradicts the "ten horned" beast!


I see you're up to your old 'presumptuous' self again. And I don't listen to Jewish fables nor do I listen to yours!

You've already shown us you're real colors here. You're aim is to spread a Jewish agenda of their hatred of Muslims in order to get Christian believers OFF what God's Word teaches about the coming false messiah being a JEWISH MESSIAH.

 

[revturmoil]

You've already shown us you're real colors here. You're aim is to spread a Jewish agenda of their hatred of Muslims in order to get Christian believers OFF what God's Word teaches about the coming false messiah being a JEWISH MESSIAH.

Remember what I said?

You're up to you're presumptuous self again.

The way I look at it there's nothing you can do. You're argument is moot. And you've been.CORRECTED.

10 horns, ten nations. And I don't rule out the possibility that there are two.. ten nation.. Islamic empires that emerge that wants dominance of the Arab world. The apostasy now going on there will cause them to rise.
Pretty soon the fuse will be lit. Hey! It might be a cartoon this time!

Hey! How about telling me how the 6th seal, the 6th trumpet, and the 6th vial are all the same.

One more note.
In this verse, only those whose names are not written in the book of life will worship him which extends outside the anti-christ kingdom because Muslim's are everywhere on earth. Yet John still uses the word 'pas' indicating that it's not everyone on earth.

8 　And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[tgwprophet]

kaoticprofit you wants a better description....

The rapture is not for those that know, but for those that know not. Colourful writing eldues you. ok here is the meaning.
The rapture is not for the strong but for the weak. those strong enough to be " allowed " persecution will be given that chance to be perwsecuted that their rewards are greater. These people are mentally aware and most likely in decent physical shape as well. Those that know not... are people that are Believes also but are too weak mentally or physically to go against the mark of the beast or simply in a state whereas they have no authority over their person - such as in prison. People too elderly tto comepletely understand what this mark means, too old to see any way out, people to sickly, people in a coma, and on and on.... comprise those that are unaware enough to deny the mark of the beast... these are those that know not. Healthy Believers...especially those capable of helping others... and are aware of the Rapture and so... are aware of the Mark of the Beast and its purpose and the destiny of those that take it,, are the people that know.

 

[veteran]

kaoticprofit you wants a better description....

The rapture is not for those that know, but for those that know not. Colourful writing eldues you. ok here is the meaning.
The rapture is not for the strong but for the weak. those strong enough to be " allowed " persecution will be given that chance to be perwsecuted that their rewards are greater. These people are mentally aware and most likely in decent physical shape as well. Those that know not... are people that are Believes also but are too weak mentally or physically to go against the mark of the beast or simply in a state whereas they have no authority over their person - such as in prison. People too elderly tto comepletely understand what this mark means, too old to see any way out, people to sickly, people in a coma, and on and on.... comprise those that are unaware enough to deny the mark of the beast... these are those that know not. Healthy Believers...especially those capable of helping others... and are aware of the Rapture and so... are aware of the Mark of the Beast and its purpose and the destiny of those that take it,, are the people that know.

I cannot agree with that, since it suggests there will be a rapture prior to the tribulation for old and weak individuals. I'm both old and weak, and I know what being deceived into bowing to worship the coming false messiah means. And I've been given to warn other believers about it.

We all... are going to go through the great tribulation our Lord Jesus warned of, unless we die of some cause before it comes. And that regardless of age or state of health.

What you're actually talking about is the idea that there's no sin in ignorance, and that brethren who are deceived into taking the mark and bowing are in ignorance by God's Hand, and that's how He protects them, through ignorance, otherwise they would be held accountable for having known Christ yet knowingly bow to worship the coming false one in His place. It's their ignorance and blindness that is their protection from accountability, for those believers would never intentionally bow to a false one in place of our Lord Jesus.

So for those whom God has... shown and that 'know', like His elect, that means 'full accountability' for these. These have no excuse if they fall away and bow to the false messiah. So those given to 'know' are also in a very serious situation for the tribulation. I believe these will not fall away, for God has 'sealed' them, and will prepare them for their duties during the tribulation.

 

[tgwprophet]

Vetean wrote:
" I cannot agree with that, since it suggests there will be a rapture prior to the tribulation for old and weak individuals. I'm both old and weak, and I know what being deceived into bowing to worship the coming false messiah means. And I've been given to warn other believers about it. "

I am not sure how you arrived at me thiking the rapture takes place pre-Tribulation, but I assure you that is not my idea.
A pre-wrath rapture I mostly agree with... I do believe the first half of Tribulation is not a time opf wrath... it is a time Satan tries to buy Christians and Jews and is a time of bounty. This expectation allows that people across the world will find it very difficult to accetance of the Beast's Mark as it wwould require them to give up the bounty they acquired durin the irst half of Tribulation.
==========================================================

I am so sorry Veteran my posting must not be consice enough, for I do brlirvr there id sin in ignorance and blindness and the rapture prevents them form having sin or ignorance imposed on them. If you were correct... and for example... a personin a coma could not deny the Beast's Mark, for they are in a coma - so how is this person to deny the Mark? A p[erson in prison.. how could that person deny the Mark? Surely there must be a line in the sand where one is spared Tribulation and where one ush endure it.

Those that know, I consider as those who are capable of denying the Beast's Mark and those that do not know, as those that think theere is no way out but to accept thee Beast's Mark. My understanding is that Satan's reasoning and eleoquent speech will subdue many peeople's ideas againt accepting the Mark of the Beast.

How can you I tend to believe Satan's power to deceive is greater than most man's ability to recognize the deception. Also those that are strong of spirit may require assistance for those that are strong in spirit and have decnt physical attributes. The concept of: the rapture is not for those that know, but for those that know not.... is only a generalization.

 

[revturmoil]

Veteran said,

The holy place referred to there (Mt 24:15) is the same holy place mentioned here...

Heb 9:25
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
(KJV)

I bet you wish you were right on this one too! Holy place in Hebrews 9:25 is one word...

hagion
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G39&t=KJV

Nor 3761 yet that 2443 he should offer 4374 himself 1438 often 4178, as 5618 the high priest 749 entereth 1525 into 1519 the holy place 39 every 2596 year 1763 with 1722 blood 129 of others 245;

No doubt the one word 'holy place' in Heb. 9:25 IS THE HOLY OF HOLIES.

BUT 'HOlY PLACE In Mt 24.15 is two words....holy and place!

Whe 3752 ye therefore 3767 shall see 1492 the abomination 946 of desolation 2050, spoken of 4483 by 1223 Daniel 1158 the prophet 4396, stand 2476 2476 in 1722 the holy 40 place 5117, (whoso readeth 314 , let him understand 3539

'Holy' in Mt. 24:15 is hagios which is a bit different and used in different context than hagion and actually means a most holy thing, a saint.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G40&t=KJV

And place is 'topos' which means...(and this is where you go wrong)...

1)
place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a)
an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2)
metaph.
a)
the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for acting
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5117&t=KJV

If the 'Holy of Holies was intended in Mathew 24:15....the ONE WORD HAGION of Strong's # 39 would be used.

OR...This one

2665. katapetasma kat-ap-et'-as-mah from a compound of 2596 and a congener of 4072; something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen
(to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple:--vail.

http://www.eliyah.co...on&isindex=266




　

 

[veteran]

Vetean wrote:
" I cannot agree with that, since it suggests there will be a rapture prior to the tribulation for old and weak individuals. I'm both old and weak, and I know what being deceived into bowing to worship the coming false messiah means. And I've been given to warn other believers about it. "

I am not sure how you arrived at me thiking the rapture takes place pre-Tribulation, but I assure you that is not my idea.
A pre-wrath rapture I mostly agree with... I do believe the first half of Tribulation is not a time opf wrath... it is a time Satan tries to buy Christians and Jews and is a time of bounty. This expectation allows that people across the world will find it very difficult to accetance of the Beast's Mark as it wwould require them to give up the bounty they acquired durin the irst half of Tribulation.
==========================================================

I am so sorry Veteran my posting must not be consice enough, for I do brlirvr there id sin in ignorance and blindness and the rapture prevents them form having sin or ignorance imposed on them. If you were correct... and for example... a personin a coma could not deny the Beast's Mark, for they are in a coma - so how is this person to deny the Mark? A p[erson in prison.. how could that person deny the Mark? Surely there must be a line in the sand where one is spared Tribulation and where one ush endure it.

Those that know, I consider as those who are capable of denying the Beast's Mark and those that do not know, as those that think theere is no way out but to accept thee Beast's Mark. My understanding is that Satan's reasoning and eleoquent speech will subdue many peeople's ideas againt accepting the Mark of the Beast.

How can you I tend to believe Satan's power to deceive is greater than most man's ability to recognize the deception. Also those that are strong of spirit may require assistance for those that are strong in spirit and have decnt physical attributes. The concept of: the rapture is not for those that know, but for those that know not.... is only a generalization.

Christ's first warning about the trib events was not to allow any man to deceive us (Matt.24:4). So deception is the main weapon used against God's people during the tribulation. That's why the Rev.9 chapter about the locust army of Joel is dedicated to the idea of deception by what comes out of the locust's mouths to cause a stinging upon the deceived. So if the deception does not take, that means refusing to take the mark. And as the end of Rev.13 reveals, those who refuse are to be killed, and that is not pointing to the mark being 'forced' upon anyone, but all given a choice to take it or execution, just like it happened in Daniel's days with the golden image Neb setup. This is why our Lord Jesus included the command for us to not fear death with the idea of tribulation (Matt.10; Luke 17).

In Romans 11, Apostle Paul brings up the matter of the "spirit of slumber" from Isaiah, speaking of the blindness put upon many until Christ's return. The word "slumber" is Greek 'katanuxis' and means a prickling, like the feeling of one's limb's fallen asleep, all in comparison to those who do not have their spiritual eyes and ears opened. Thus our Lord's idea of the five foolish virgins applied to the deceived among His Church.

Veteran said,



I bet you wish you were right on this one too! Holy place in Hebrews 9:25 is one word...

hagion
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G39&t=KJV

Nor 3761 yet that 2443 he should offer 4374 himself 1438 often 4178, as 5618 the high priest 749 entereth 1525 into 1519 the holy place 39 every 2596 year 1763 with 1722 blood 129 of others 245;

No doubt the one word 'holy place' in Heb. 9:25 IS THE HOLY OF HOLIES.

BUT 'HOlY PLACE In Mt 24.15 is two words....holy and place!

Whe 3752 ye therefore 3767 shall see 1492 the abomination 946 of desolation 2050, spoken of 4483 by 1223 Daniel 1158 the prophet 4396, stand 2476 2476 in 1722 the holy 40 place 5117, (whoso readeth 314 , let him understand 3539

'Holy' in Mt. 24:15 is hagios which is a bit different and used in different context than hagion and actually means a most holy thing, a saint.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G40&t=KJV

And place is 'topos' which means...(and this is where you go wrong)...

1)
place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a)
an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2)
metaph.
a)
the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for acting
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5117&t=KJV

If the 'Holy of Holies was intended in Mathew 24:15....the ONE WORD HAGION of Strong's # 39 would be used.

OR...This one

2665. katapetasma kat-ap-et'-as-mah from a compound of 2596 and a congener of 4072; something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen
(to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple:--vail.

http://www.eliyah.co...on&isindex=266




　

Greek hagios is used in BOTH Matt.24:15, and in Hebrews 9:25. They are both pointing to the same place involving an Israelite temple. Your attempt at word gymnastics just ain't gonna' get 'er done.

Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(KJV)

 

[tgwprophet]

The Holy Place is? Israel>Jerusalem>the Courtyard>the Temple.... The temple is the place the Abomination of Desolation happens... so when you see this rush to it? What are your thoughts on this?

 

[revturmoil]

Veteran said,

Greek hagios is used in BOTH Matt.24:15, and in Hebrews 9:25. They are both pointing to the same place involving an Israelite temple. Your attempt at word gymnastics just ain't gonna' get 'er done.
Matt 24:15
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

In Acts 6:13, Acts 21:28 and Mt. 24:15 two words are used for holy place (hagios and topos). Read those passages carefully and notice the context and you'll see that it's clear that those two words indicate the entire temple area.

Acts 6:9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen........

Acts 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

Acts 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all [men] every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

Mt. 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
The temple area is what's mentioned in all of the verses above.

The only two places Holy of Holies "one word" is mentioned in the New Testament is Hebrews 9:25 and 9:12. It's clear that where only the one word for Holy place "hagion" is used it means the Holy of Holies.

Hebrews 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Hagion and "hagios topos" is used 5 times in the NT. Twice for Holy of Holies. Three times for the entire temple area.

http://www.bluelette...=3&sstr=1&t=KJV

 

[veteran]

An emphatic reference to the "abomination of desolation" event, an idol setup in the temple that makes Him jealous, is given in Ezekiel 8.

So we don't need any SDA doctrines of men trying to modify that coming event Christ forewarned of. God already gave enough previous references to it. And Apostle Paul revealed it emphatically in 2 Thess.2 with the one coming to sit in the temple and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is worshipped or called God.

 

[revturmoil]

An emphatic reference to the "abomination of desolation" event, an idol setup in the temple that makes Him jealous, is given in Ezekiel 8.

So we don't need any SDA doctrines of men trying to modify that coming event Christ forewarned of. God already gave enough previous references to it. And Apostle Paul revealed it emphatically in 2 Thess.2 with the one coming to sit in the temple and proclaim himself as God, and over all that is worshipped or called God.

I don't understand these Jewish fables and SDA accusation at all. I don't even know the specifics of what the SDA'S Eschatology is all aout! My beliefs are my own. Reply # 57 is an example of a good hermeneutic. It's how scripture interprets scripture. Context is important and so is the language God spoke it. That's part of my hermeneutic. What's yours?

The demonic duo will authenticate themselves in the Dome of the Rock or Al'aqsa mosque.

No temple needs to be rebuilt to fulfill prophecy. No sacrifices have to resume... only to have them cease. No 'peace treaty' with Israel needs to be signed. No global dictator or government will come. No global religion will come. It's already here in Islam.....Babylon the Great. The men of sin will not come from within the church. The rapture will not happen until after the entire tribulation.

 

[veteran]

I don't understand these Jewish fables and SDA accusation at all. I don't even know the specifics of what the SDA'S Eschatology is all aout! My beliefs are my own. Reply # 57 is an example of a good hermeneutic. It's how scripture interprets scripture. Context is important and so is the language God spoke it. That's part of my hermeneutic. What's yours?

The demonic duo will authenticate themselves in the Dome of the Rock or Al'aqsa mosque.

No temple needs to be rebuilt to fulfill prophecy. No sacrifices have to resume... only to have them cease. No 'peace treaty' with Israel needs to be signed. No global dictator or government will come. No global religion will come. It's already here in Islam.....Babylon the Great. The men of sin will not come from within the church. The rapture will not happen until after the entire tribulation.

Problem is, the SDA teachings still have some Pharisee doctrines in them. And other Christian branches do also by the same "crept in unawares" among them too. The whole seminary system has corruptions in it by the "crept in unawares" also.

Jude 1:4
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

Our Lord Jesus and His Apostles ALL... warned about that creeping in. In Acts 15 it was about false brethen of Pharisee converts to Christ. In Galatians 2:4 it was about false brethren unawares brought in. In Acts 20:27-31 Paul warned about that again. In John 10 Christ warned us about the "hireling". In The Gospel He warned about the leaven doctrines of men, pointing to the scribes and Pharisees then. In Rev.2:9 and Rev.3:9 He warned about those who say they are Jews but do lie and are not, but are the "synagogue of Satan".

And thusly, the IDEA that the coming false messiah will be of Islam, when God's Word shows that one will instead align the role of ISRAEL's Messiah, reveals an Islamic messiah is one of their false doctrines. And YOU were not the first one to come up with that idea today.