Richard. actually the one intent of the Mark of the Beast is to define who will follow Satan... All other intents are secondary to Satan and are provocations to guide, urge, etc.. ( force actually ) one into acceptance of the Beast's Mark. Acceptance of the Mark of the Beast has long been considered to be a person's choice seemingly without force, but the truth of the matter is to what degree force is used, allowed and comitted. The woman, believing in Jesus, needing penicillin for her child will of course, feel that force.
Coming Antichrist Is Not Of Islam
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It IS necessary that God is The Builder, as with ALL things, and it's because that Scripture says so. Read the Scripture using common sense. It's not that difficult. Does that mean Jesus is going to literally stack stones to build His Temple to sit in when He returns? Not necessarily. There's a point to when one's interpretation becomes over literal and them becomes legalistic.terry said:
kaoticprofit, on 30 Oct 2012 - 19:09, said:
Veteran is full of presumptions. I'm not a Jew and I have nothing to do with orthodox Judaism. Everything I talk about I researched myself. Veteran has accused me of being involved with several other religious organizations and he's a liar about it all and I don't care if I get banned. The things he's accused me of aren't true. He needs to shut up and stop accusing people of things that are untrue. He, as well as most of you on this forum, have fallen for and adhere to a host of false prophecy and very few of you know what a hermeneutic is let alone have one, and very few of you know how to interpret God's Word!
The biggest and most deceitful lies that have ever entered the church is pre-tribulationism and globalism.
Rome, the Pope, Catholicism, and the EU are nowhere to be found in end-time prophecy yet people still believe that prejudiced Protestant lie which is still promoted throughtout the church.
The devil has the church right where he wants it.....totally DECEIVED about the end!
It won't be long but after the next 911 most of you will be manufacturing more and more stuff to fit your false prophecies. And it won't be Rome or the EU that brings prophecy to pass. It will be the Arab's and the Muslim's! The apostasy is now taking place. But you guys would rather demonize the church and say that the apostasy is a 'Christian' apostasy.
I'm actually disgusted with the average Christian's level of incompetence with interpretation. Nobody is here to learn anything. They believe they already have it all figured out!
And I put most of the blame on the so called "prophecy experts."
I praise God that He has helped me snap out of deception because I use to be a globalist, a revived Roman Empirist, and a pretribulationist. I use to believe a lot of what you all do.
I'm tired of dealing with a bunch of incompetent prophecy misfits. I have more important things to do.
See you later.........maybe!
Well said...
Richard Neal said:
If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck..., it probably IS a duck!
One does not have to be a blood-born Jew to follow what Apostle Paul called "the Jews religion".
No, rebuke is also for the Judaizers, the type like the Pharisee converts to Christ that Apostle Paul had to struggle with...terry said:
Titus 1:10-14
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, "The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(KJV)
quote " Titus 1:10-14
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, "The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(KJV) "
And let that rebuke go to those following false gods, no god or the trolls, and let correction go to our brothers in Christ Jesus. For we should not chase away one trying to share and learn and debate, but only those trying to elevate themselves where they do not belong. When we give our opinion and it is in error do we not allow an opening for crrection? When one drops an idea, passing it off as an absolute then runs - waiting for something resembling it to come to pass that they can claim it... are they not trying to elevate themselves for their own personal lusts?
This is pretty easy to distinguish.... ask the person if they are here to share and learn and debate for testing and resolve, or if they are here to TELL only. The person here to only tell is a person who thinks they know it all... rebuke them. They are not here to debate, to learn to share to seek righteousness and wisdom.
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, "The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies."
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
(KJV) "
And let that rebuke go to those following false gods, no god or the trolls, and let correction go to our brothers in Christ Jesus. For we should not chase away one trying to share and learn and debate, but only those trying to elevate themselves where they do not belong. When we give our opinion and it is in error do we not allow an opening for crrection? When one drops an idea, passing it off as an absolute then runs - waiting for something resembling it to come to pass that they can claim it... are they not trying to elevate themselves for their own personal lusts?
This is pretty easy to distinguish.... ask the person if they are here to share and learn and debate for testing and resolve, or if they are here to TELL only. The person here to only tell is a person who thinks they know it all... rebuke them. They are not here to debate, to learn to share to seek righteousness and wisdom.
I will be happy when people see that neither President Obama nor Governor Romney are the anti-Christ.
Questor
Messianic Gentile
Richard Neal, said on 09 January 2013 - 09:26 PM
Questor is flat wrong when he claims that Islam is not awaiting Jesus Christ - because they certainly are..."Jesus, son of Mary" is spoken about more often in the Koran than any other human being - including Muhammad himself. al-Mahdi is not even mentioned in the pages of the Koran - did you know that?...The Hadiths are full of stories of "Jesus, son of Mary" and his anticipated return from Paradise...Now, is "Jesus, son of Mary" of Islam the same god-man that Jesus Christ is for the Christian - of course not. Islam, as a Gnostic religion, believes in the heretical Christology known to Gnosticism as Dosetism. A specific Christological heresy that has been around since the 2nd century A.D....Obviously no one on this forum knows or understands anything about the great archenemy of Christendom, Gnosticism. If you did, you guys wouldn't be arguing back and forth about things you obviously know nothing about - much like the blind leading the blind...I suggest you read the works of the Church Fathers, continue studying about Gnosticism, then apply your new knowledge to Islam and end time prophecy - as well as to Paul's writings and John's, and then you begin to grasp the end time paradigm Scripture intended all Christians to know and understand...And, in the process, stop wasting your time arguing over such none-sensical topics as Babylon, Rome, the EU, Catholicism, Gog and MaGog, Russia, etc, etc, that you argue over - all of which have little to nothing to do with end time prophecy...Stop regurgitating works you have read from years past because they were wrong...Neither you, nor the authors of the works you have read, can prove any of the crazy arguments or paradigms you guys put forth. Because those authors, like you guys, lack[ed] any knowledge what so ever about the great archenemy of the Church - Gnosticism...It is sad but 'My people die because of a lack of knowledge" even now, in the 21st century...
Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist
I, Questor, am not wrong, when I have specifically said that Islam is expecting 'Jesus son of Mary', ('Issa bin Miryam'), a miracle working prophet, to return.
Islam is not looking for Yah'shua ha Notsri, the Son of YHVH, the Living God, to return in triumph.
All of us must become very careful just who we say we worship, because there is a move to blend Islamic beliefs into America's churches, to add the Koran hadiths about their 'Jesus, son of Mary', a non-divine prophet, into mainstream churches, to put the Koran next to their Bibles in every pew, and teach Hadith's and Sura's alongside the Gospels. It's called Crislam, and already has 148,000 entries in Google.
Crislam is getting it's own Bible's translated omitting all reference to Yah'shua being the son of YHVH, so that no one be offended in their syncretic blend of Christianity and Islam. Their Bible speaks of 'Allah, the Messiah, and the Holy Spirit, not Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
It is such a small change in wording, taking all reference to Son of God away, and only mention Son of Man...and yet so damaging to those who are not taught correctly, and know nothing of actually reading the first translations from Greek and Aramaic into German and English, much less the plain old American Standard Bible, or even, the King James Version of the BIble.
The Adversary is skilled in deceit...teaching less than the whole truth to catch the young believer's off balance.
It is time to split hairs, and be specific in who your God is, who you follow and why.
Again, I say, I follow Yah'shua ben Notsri haMashiach, the son of YHVH, not 'Jesus, son of 'Mary' (Issa bin Miryam), the Prophet of Allah.
Q
Questor is flat wrong when he claims that Islam is not awaiting Jesus Christ - because they certainly are..."Jesus, son of Mary" is spoken about more often in the Koran than any other human being - including Muhammad himself. al-Mahdi is not even mentioned in the pages of the Koran - did you know that?...The Hadiths are full of stories of "Jesus, son of Mary" and his anticipated return from Paradise...Now, is "Jesus, son of Mary" of Islam the same god-man that Jesus Christ is for the Christian - of course not. Islam, as a Gnostic religion, believes in the heretical Christology known to Gnosticism as Dosetism. A specific Christological heresy that has been around since the 2nd century A.D....Obviously no one on this forum knows or understands anything about the great archenemy of Christendom, Gnosticism. If you did, you guys wouldn't be arguing back and forth about things you obviously know nothing about - much like the blind leading the blind...I suggest you read the works of the Church Fathers, continue studying about Gnosticism, then apply your new knowledge to Islam and end time prophecy - as well as to Paul's writings and John's, and then you begin to grasp the end time paradigm Scripture intended all Christians to know and understand...And, in the process, stop wasting your time arguing over such none-sensical topics as Babylon, Rome, the EU, Catholicism, Gog and MaGog, Russia, etc, etc, that you argue over - all of which have little to nothing to do with end time prophecy...Stop regurgitating works you have read from years past because they were wrong...Neither you, nor the authors of the works you have read, can prove any of the crazy arguments or paradigms you guys put forth. Because those authors, like you guys, lack[ed] any knowledge what so ever about the great archenemy of the Church - Gnosticism...It is sad but 'My people die because of a lack of knowledge" even now, in the 21st century...
Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist
I, Questor, am not wrong, when I have specifically said that Islam is expecting 'Jesus son of Mary', ('Issa bin Miryam'), a miracle working prophet, to return.
Islam is not looking for Yah'shua ha Notsri, the Son of YHVH, the Living God, to return in triumph.
All of us must become very careful just who we say we worship, because there is a move to blend Islamic beliefs into America's churches, to add the Koran hadiths about their 'Jesus, son of Mary', a non-divine prophet, into mainstream churches, to put the Koran next to their Bibles in every pew, and teach Hadith's and Sura's alongside the Gospels. It's called Crislam, and already has 148,000 entries in Google.
Crislam is getting it's own Bible's translated omitting all reference to Yah'shua being the son of YHVH, so that no one be offended in their syncretic blend of Christianity and Islam. Their Bible speaks of 'Allah, the Messiah, and the Holy Spirit, not Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
It is such a small change in wording, taking all reference to Son of God away, and only mention Son of Man...and yet so damaging to those who are not taught correctly, and know nothing of actually reading the first translations from Greek and Aramaic into German and English, much less the plain old American Standard Bible, or even, the King James Version of the BIble.
The Adversary is skilled in deceit...teaching less than the whole truth to catch the young believer's off balance.
It is time to split hairs, and be specific in who your God is, who you follow and why.
Again, I say, I follow Yah'shua ben Notsri haMashiach, the son of YHVH, not 'Jesus, son of 'Mary' (Issa bin Miryam), the Prophet of Allah.
Q
I respectfully disagree Terry. The mark of the beast - or any mark for that matter - is not necessary for people to follow any cult, religion, etc. Look around you today and what "marks" do you find that are mandated by today's religions?...Maybe circumcision by the Jews, but then rabbinic Judaism is an archaic and dying religion because it ca not transcend time, thus it is a weak example...I can't really think of any other necessary or mandated "marks?"...So any "mark" in association with the religion of the Antichrist is only necessitated by the fact that many Jews and Christians will refuse his religion. In an attempt to force "infidels" into following his religion the Antichrist, at first, will demand that mark so that the "infidel" cannot "buy or sell." Imagine a mother whose child is sick and needs readably available medicine, but she can't "buy or sell" because she does not belong to the religion of the Antichrist? Will she receive the mark just so she can save her child?...But then later Scripture implies that the mark is no longer enough. Obviously true Christians will know that if they receive the mark that they will lose their soul - Thus, for any Christian it is better to "kill the body than the soul." Consequently, a second phase in the Antichrist's plan goes in to affect - anyone without the mark now must die...Read your Scripture with an open heart and I believe you will see that this is the correct interpretation fo the "mark of the beast."...terry said:
Well said Q. On the surface it looks like a argument over semantics - the "Jesus" of Christianity and "Jesus, son of Mary" of Islamic thought are one in the same. But the two could not be further apart in their meanings and importance...That is why it is VITAL! for all, who want to teach the Church in these last days, and to defend her against all her enemies, read the works of the Early Church Fathers, or Patristic Fathers and learn all they can about the origins, history and various beliefs and practices of Gnosticism. St. Paul rightly identified the hydra-headed heresy as the primary enemy of the Church - and the ensuing centuries proved just how accurate Paul was...And it is this same hydra-headed heresy - specifically its heretical Christology i.e., "Jesus, son of Mary" that will empower the Antichrist in the final days to present himself to the world as Jesus. It is "the lie" Paul warned against...Questor said:
Yes, Richard... it says anyone with the mark of the beast on their right hand or forehead or the number of his name or name of the beast. What you posted is not all that different from what I stated and when we understand all the possibles available are just as valid and so just as dangerous then we stand in agreement. The mark was just one example I posted.
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, terry.
Adolf Hitler was a very charismatic orator and statesman. He played upon the thoughts and comments of the people, and he told them what they wanted to hear! He was an Obama in every way! So, he quickly rose to the position of Chancellor and from there to absolute power. The Arian race vs. "inferior races," such as blacks and Jews, was just a play for power in his agenda. He used the Jews and blacks as pawns in his gamble for autonomy. Some didn't buy into his arguments and left the country for other places in Europe, Great Brittain, or America, but the ones who chose not to leave or could not leave either bought into his deceptions or they were quelled into silence. THAT'S when people (not already targeted as "inferior") were forced to comply! Even when his rhetoric was becoming so obvious, those Germans who were not duped by his lies finally realized too late that they had a madman on their hands with nothing they could do about it! The Germans of that day were not a stupid people; however, they were very regimented and proud. Those who also had a flair for the dramatic and those who were politically ambitious were not duped by the lies, either. They just "played along" to achieve their personal goals in his regime.
So, Nazi Germany was a little more complicated than you painted it, and they were NOT forced at the beginning.
Actually, you need to review history a little more. Hitler came upon Germany at one of its weakest moments. They had just come out of WWI and were severely sanctioned by losing that war. Their country is land-locked and their resources are limited. They were in a great recession (depression) in which it was more advantageous to wallpaper their houses with their Marks than to try to buy food with them! So, the people were RIPE for a Hitler to come along.terry said:
Adolf Hitler was a very charismatic orator and statesman. He played upon the thoughts and comments of the people, and he told them what they wanted to hear! He was an Obama in every way! So, he quickly rose to the position of Chancellor and from there to absolute power. The Arian race vs. "inferior races," such as blacks and Jews, was just a play for power in his agenda. He used the Jews and blacks as pawns in his gamble for autonomy. Some didn't buy into his arguments and left the country for other places in Europe, Great Brittain, or America, but the ones who chose not to leave or could not leave either bought into his deceptions or they were quelled into silence. THAT'S when people (not already targeted as "inferior") were forced to comply! Even when his rhetoric was becoming so obvious, those Germans who were not duped by his lies finally realized too late that they had a madman on their hands with nothing they could do about it! The Germans of that day were not a stupid people; however, they were very regimented and proud. Those who also had a flair for the dramatic and those who were politically ambitious were not duped by the lies, either. They just "played along" to achieve their personal goals in his regime.
So, Nazi Germany was a little more complicated than you painted it, and they were NOT forced at the beginning.
And with the re-election of obamy,i can see how Americans can be duped by a charismatic leader bent on the destruction of our country.
Retrobyter... What you said is true, and more. However that in no way alters my stance of the Mark.
Now, as you stated.. they were not forced in the begining, - nether are they forced to take the mark of the beast in the begining.
Now, as you stated.. they were not forced in the begining, - nether are they forced to take the mark of the beast in the begining.
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