Coming Antichrist Is Not Of Islam

[tgwprophet]

Vetern said: " There's EVERY reason for Satan to mimic God's marking of His, for it involves the main event for the end of this world. What event do you think is the main event by Satan for this world at the end?' "

And if Satan's Mark is better mis-understood if it does not mimic God's Mark(s) ?: Certainly Satan requires man to bow before him of their own free will, but when is that necessary? Can he not first demand it until such a time as people really believe bowing to him is righteus? Were not the german people bowing to hitler after they were forced and then, after they were infected with hitler's words enough to think it was righteous?

Remember how well the german people took to Hitler's speeches.


If Satan requires all to take his Mark or first suffer humiliation, then suffer loss, then make it manditory, then require one to take it or perish it would near parallel Hitler's action. What is that called? Stockholm Syndrome - I think. Of course Satan's speeches will be even greater and more effective than what Hitler achieved with his speeches.

 

[veteran]

Vetern said: " There's EVERY reason for Satan to mimic God's marking of His, for it involves the main event for the end of this world. What event do you think is the main event by Satan for this world at the end?' "

And if Satan's Mark is better mis-understood if it does not mimic God's Mark(s) ?: Certainly Satan requires man to bow before him of their own free will, but when is that necessary? Can he not first demand it until such a time as people really believe bowing to him is righteus? Were not the german people bowing to hitler after they were forced and then, after they were infected with hitler's words enough to think it was righteous?

Remember how well the german people took to Hitler's speeches.


If Satan requires all to take his Mark or first suffer humiliation, then suffer loss, then make it manditory, then require one to take it or perish it would near parallel Hitler's action. What is that called? Stockholm Syndrome - I think. Of course Satan's speeches will be even greater and more effective than what Hitler achieved with his speeches.

Insert the lengthy history of the Collectivist Socialist movements of the occult secret societies, Fascism, Communism, etc.,

<HERE>


That's what the modus operandi has been for a long time, centuries even.

This is why our Heavenly Father showed Ezekiel the paganism that leaders of Israel were doing that was going on behind closed doors in the temple per Ezekiel 8.

 

[tgwprophet]

I am concerned that limiting Satan's Mark will breed acceptance. So I refuse to place a limitation on the Beast's Mark.

Futhermore I expect that.. t ...i...m...e ..will allow many to fall into the pit of acceptance as complacency weakens the understanding of those that would not otherwise accept it. I have had many conversations with people that tend to hinge their ability to accept there is a God and which god is the true God on this "mark of the beast" - they do this thing by claiming they will never accept a Mark as described in Revelation, but... I am sorely sure time will allow their acceptance and while true believers waste away rather than take this Mark.. True believers waste away as they are not willing to take the Beast's Mark and enjoy the treasures of an economic boom provided by Satan for those who take his mark as he - Satan attempts to "buy" the world.

 

[tgwprophet]

16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in thier right hand, or in their foreheads.
17) And that no man may buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

In these two verses we learn several things about the Beast's Mark... Look closely.. at certain parts, when it comes to " or the number of his name " - exactly how is that to emulate or mimic God's mark as it is espressely the Beast's Number - not God's number. When one... any one of these "marks" need not "mimic" a mark of God... then none of them need to. " or the name of the beast " also implies it need not mimic any mark of God.

Ok, so I will not state that the Mark of the Beast must not mimic any mark of God, I simply contend it need not mimic any mark of God. Then when one claims it must mimic some or any mark of God - I would ask by what standard does one contend the mark of the beast must be percentage wise to replicate a mark God may have used or is going to use? 100% like a mark God has used? 99%? 98%? 90%? 75%? 50%? 25%? 10%? Who here has the right to draw the line in the sand?

With that, my contention remains the same... beware of accepting any mark one can not easily dispose of, such as a physical mark on one's head or hand. This does not mean that I would think one should be allowed to buy or sell simply by means of their photo and their face - ( an achievement already in place - today). Our concerns need be for any method of payment void of cash.

 

[Questor]

Some are preaching that some coming flesh-born Islamic caliphate is going to be the final Antichrist of The Bible.

That idea is just as much baloney as those who mis-assign the final Antichrist as being the pope, or some U.S. President, or any other flesh born man of today.

All those ideas are by 'design'. They're designed to mislead you away from the prophetic parameters God's Word gives about the final Antichrist that's coming to Jerusalem on earth, which Orthodox Judaism will accept as Messiah.

Orthodox Jews, are not... going to accept an Islamic caliphate as The Messiah of God's Word. It's a crazy idea, since Islamic nations are involved in attacking Israel at the end of this world per Ezek.38 & 39. One of the MAJOR prophetic parameters required to fulfill the prophecy about the final Antichrist is Judah accepting him as a Jewish priest-king to sit in their future temple in Jerusalem, not an Islamic king, for they would easily recognize the difference.

So WHY are those doctrines of men about an Islamic caliphate making the rounds today? It's because of what's getting ready to occur in Jerusalem with the coming Antichrist-false messiah which is being specifically prepared for unbelieving Jews, and all the deceived world.

Actually, as I have found out today, according to the top 10 English websites of Islam, the Muslim's believe that 'Jesus, son of Mary', will return from heaven, where they believe he is hanging out, waiting for the day of his return. I would read a few more, but there are over half a million of Islamic sites about 'Jesus, son of Mary'.

The Muslim's believe that a gnostic 'Jesus', one who never died on the Cross, was an ascetic Jewish Prophet, caught up by 'God' into heaven, and they are expecting him returning as a human 'Messiah'. Everybody's 'Messiah'.

They also believe that the Mahdi is a kind of forerunner (John the Baptist, anyone?) to 'Jesus, son of Mary' returning, and that the false Prophet is an evil third personage, to make things more complicated, that 'Jesus, son of Mary' will dispose of in battle.

This is why many so called 'Christian's' are gravitating to Islam...these nominal believers, which are Protestants worldwide, Catholic's, Coptic's, Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox. They think that this 'Jesus, son of Mary' is Yah'shua ben Notsri!

This is the 'Jesus' Paul warned of, the 'another Jesus' that was already working in his own new congregations, the Gnostics, and even the Ebionites.

There will be an alliance of some sort among those of Islam...for the Ezekial 38 war against Israel that ushers in the coming of the AntiChrist. Whether it will be a caliphate at that time, or later, is immaterial.

That the Islamic people are teaching a JEWISH 'Jesus, son of Mary', in terms that the Orthodox Jews can accept (no divinity of this 'Jesus', just a 'Prophet') scares the living daylights out of me, when combined with what is actually going on in the middle east just now.

It doesn't matter if there is a Caliphate, or anything else, the UN, or a supposed reincarnation of a 'Roman Empire'. The 'Jesus' they preach is not Yah'shua (yup, changed my spelling and pronunciation to Hebrew...Yeshua is Aramaic), but he'll make an AntiChrist everyone can believe in..., which is why this 'Jesus, son of Mary' will make it as a theocratic wonder...Jewish, a Prophet, accepted by Islam, Catholics, and many varieties of Protestants, and semi-protestants?

An ascetic Jew, preaching a type of 'communitarism' under Sharia law (the Essene's were a communal group - a tribal replacement for all those who were kicked out of their own family at the time, while the First Nazarene group in Jerusalem was also a communal group, again a replacment for the family that everyone lost by taking up with Yah'shua.), which is not all that different from Rabbinical Orthodox Traditions?

It's a lovely setup...google 'Jesus, son of Mary, Last Hour' , and you too can see the Parousia getting even closer.

But I agree, there is no need of a Caliphate to pull this one off...just cooperation amoungst 'believer's' worldwide. But it is interesting that the 10 areas mentioned in Ezekial as part of the Gog Magog coalition are all being run, or taken over, by the Muslim Brotherhood. And they seem to want a caliphate.

What if someone want's you to bow down to 'Jesus, son of Mary'? The Islamic peoples are evidently quite willing to do so. And on their English website's, they freely speak of 'God' being Allah, and 'Jesus, son of Mary', being the Messiah.

Well, as for me, I follow Yah'shua ben Notsri haMashiach, the son of YHVH, not 'Jesus' (Issa), son of 'Mary' (Miryam), the Prophet of Allah.



Q

 

[veteran]

The huge major problem with that 'theory' is that the orthodox unbelieving Jews are NOT... going to accept a Messiah that claims to be Jesus of Nazareth having returned. Their religion specifically forbids accepting Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah!

So what those Islamic websites might be saying really don't mean squat.

Keep reading more of them and you'll discover a lot of them that do tend to recognize Jesus of Nazareth claim he is returning to be the side-kick of their Mahdi. And that is nothing more than the same old, 'my god is greater than your God' game.

So it's the orthodox Jews that are going to be the most difficult to fool, likewise with what other religions are expecting. That's why the coming pseudo-Christ will fulfill enough of what unbelieving Jews expect to happen in order to deceive them. Same things goes for many in all branches of Christianity too.

So just what... would it take to pull all the deceived together from all religions in all nations? That's level of deception the pseudo-Christ is going to work, and I don't mean just through words, but by deeds, miracles and wonders that no flesh man could do. That's why the coming Antichrist role will be a supernatural working upon the earth.

 

[Questor]

The huge major problem with that 'theory' is that the orthodox unbelieving Jews are NOT... going to accept a Messiah that claims to be Jesus of Nazareth having returned. Their religion specifically forbids accepting Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah!

So what those Islamic websites might be saying really don't mean squat.

Actually it does mean something, Veteran...of the 7 Billion people on this planet, somewhere close to 5 Billion of them believe in a Messiah, including the Orthodox Jews. That's an awful lot of people who are WILLING to believe a miracle working being of human shape is the 'God' they've been waiting for.

The Orthodox Jews, only 3.7 million of them worldwide, of a total 13.3 million Jews on the earth, are waiting for Mashiach ben David to show up, and if someone turns up in Israel, and makes a name for himself as a devout Jew, and becomes a political superstar, will the Israeli's not work with the person, human or not? Rabbinical Jews are by training skeptics of the first order, but if they can get what they want, will not that be enough to begin the final 7 year treaty?

If someone negotiates a peace for Israel that makes Jerusalem the capitol of Israel, with the ability to build on the Temple Mount, are the Orthodox Jews going to care about who the Gentiles think the guy is? As long as they have what they want, why do the Jews...any Jews, have to accept the AntiChrist? Or follow Him?

The AntiChrist when he begins is the Great Problem solver, the soother of all ills, not even pretending yet to be 'God'.

Only when the AntiChrist is loosed to prey on the few true Believers at 3.5 years into the treaty will the Jews even be asked to believe in the AntiChrist.

The Christian Believer's want a Messiah to show up. So do the Catholics, and now, it seems that all of Islam wants the same thing. If the man is named Immanuel ben David, will the name matter? I am seeing a whole lot of OTHER people that I thought hated 'Jesus' getting in very closely with all the other believers in a 'Jesus'. Is anyone checking to see if they even are talking about the same person?

That is what I am disturbed over, all that Paul warned of, of 'another Jesus'. Well, there is one being preached to come again that is not my Yah'shua.

The Orthodox Jews do not have to believe the AntiChrist is Mashiach ben David. I don't think they will believe in anyone as Mashiach until Yah'shua ben Notsri returns as Yah'shua Ben David. Some may take the mark, some may believe...who can tell?

What struck me so powerfully was the fact that those of Islam will accept a Jewish leader, if he is their 'Jesus, son of Mary'. (Issa bin Miryam).

No, Islam does not need a caliphate, however much they might want one. On the other hand, if 'Jesus, son of Mary', wonder worker extraordinaire appears on earth, Islam will support him. And this fact will make it very easy for the deception we know is coming to be pulled off.

Keep reading more of them and you'll discover a lot of them that do tend to recognize Jesus of Nazareth claim he is returning to be the side-kick of their Mahdi. And that is nothing more than the same old, 'my god is greater than your God' game.

So it's the orthodox Jews that are going to be the most difficult to fool, likewise with what other religions are expecting. That's why the coming pseudo-Christ will fulfill enough of what unbelieving Jews expect to happen in order to deceive them. Same things goes for many in all branches of Christianity too.

Agreed...and there is a huge pool of willing believers out there. I had only been counting Protestants and Catholics, that's all, and now we add Islam to the pot. But one day of Islamic Eschatology is enough for me, thanks.

So just what... would it take to pull all the deceived together from all religions in all nations? That's level of deception the pseudo-Christ is going to work, and I don't mean just through words, but by deeds, miracles and wonders that no flesh man could do. That's why the coming Antichrist role will be a supernatural working upon the earth.

Very true, although at first he will seem human, and an only later as godly.

The point is, he's already got most of the world ready for him to come now. I had been looking at their Mahdi for the possible AntiChrist, but it seems in Islamic eschatology, they understand the necessity of a forerunner to pave the way for the 'Messiah'. But the remainder of their escatology is very thin...just a few bare bones to raise the AntiChrist up on...in conjunction with every other nominal believer world wide. Their Imam's will tell them who to follow at that point, and a miracle worker will be easy for the Imam's to push as the long awaited 'Jesus, son of Mary'

When you said that we were 'very close' to the time of the AntiChrist, I think you may have actually understated the fact, and that the deception is already in place, making headway in every Believer who is not truly sure who Mashiach is. The fact that so very few people see the very real danger in a Gnostic 'Jesus', (Catholics, Islam, and some Protestants) while it is already so firmly established is a very terrible prospect.


Q

 

[veteran]

Actually it does mean something, Veteran...of the 7 Billion people on this planet, somewhere close to 5 Billion of them believe in a Messiah, including the Orthodox Jews. That's an awful lot of people who are WILLING to believe a miracle working being of human shape is the 'God' they've been waiting for.

Orthodox Jews would never accept Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, and that's the point. For Islam to be preaching of a return of Jesus, that means Jesus of Nazareth Who the Jews refused then, and still refuse today, and would again so long as He is presented as being Jesus of Nazareth. No one can escape that point.

The AntiChrist when he begins is the Great Problem solver, the soother of all ills, not even pretending yet to be 'God'.

Only when the AntiChrist is loosed to prey on the few true Believers at 3.5 years into the treaty will the Jews even be asked to believe in the AntiChrist.

Pretending to be GOD Himself is EXACTLY what that false one is coming to do. That's why Paul called it the "strong delusion" in 2 Thess.2 along with the 2 Thess.2:4 verse. That's why our Lord Jesus warned that if possible it would deceive even His own elect. If you think people falling out in the floor and writhing is any kind of show of miracles today, wait until you see what the coming false messiah is going to do on the earth. If you think girls going wild, crying and losing control at an Elvis or Beatles concert was anything, wait until that false one comes.

The Christian Believer's want a Messiah to show up. So do the Catholics, and now, it seems that all of Islam wants the same thing. If the man is named Immanuel ben David, will the name matter? I am seeing a whole lot of OTHER people that I thought hated 'Jesus' getting in very closely with all the other believers in a 'Jesus'. Is anyone checking to see if they even are talking about the same person?

Islam isn't waiting on Messiah of The Bible to come. They're waiting for their Mahdi to come. The coming of Jesus Christ Messiah is only expected by Christian believers, not other religions. Any one claiming to be Messiah means they claim to be The Christ, and that means The Messiah of The Bible, not the Koran. Their Mahdi is not the same idea as The Christ.

That is what I am disturbed over, all that Paul warned of, of 'another Jesus'. Well, there is one being preached to come again that is not my Yah'shua.

Paul was preaching warning about another coming to play Jesus of Nazareth. That's why he was warning of "another Jesus", a type warning especially for Christian believers. What does that kind of warning reveal? It reveals no one can claim the coming false messiah is just a deception meant only for deceived unbelieving Jews.

The Orthodox Jews do not have to believe the AntiChrist is Mashiach ben David. I don't think they will believe in anyone as Mashiach until Yah'shua ben Notsri returns as Yah'shua Ben David. Some may take the mark, some may believe...who can tell?

Yes, the deceived Jews DO have to accept the coming false one as Mashiah ben David (Messiah Son of David) to think he is The Christ of The Bible. That's how the false one Paul warned of is coming to 'play' GOD in Jerusalem. That's why the Greek word pseudochristos is used for that coming false one in Matt.24:24 that Jesus warned us about.

You may not want... your orthodox Jewish brethren to be deceived by the coming false messiah, but that's exactly what's going to happen to many of them who don't come to Jesus of Nazareth and repent to Him. If you're a Jewish believer on Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ like I think you are, then don't you think it your duty to be warning them about falling away to the coming false messiah?

No, Islam does not need a caliphate, however much they might want one. On the other hand, if 'Jesus, son of Mary', wonder worker extraordinaire appears on earth, Islam will support him. And this fact will make it very easy for the deception we know is coming to be pulled off.

Has Islam EVER recognized the Jesus of Christianity? NO. Instead, they have been vehemently against the Christian concept of Messiah. As a matter of fact, they claim Christianity worships a multiplicity of gods just like unbelieving Jews claim about Christians, while Islam claims to worship only Allah.

The Title of Messiah for me and my Christian brethren means The Only Begotten Son of God, not just a religious leader or prophet. Islam and Judaism are more closely aligned, because they treat the concept of Messiah more as a prophet and not as God Himself.

Very true, although at first he will seem human, and an only later as godly.

The point is, he's already got most of the world ready for him to come now. I had been looking at their Mahdi for the possible AntiChrist, but it seems in Islamic eschatology, they understand the necessity of a forerunner to pave the way for the 'Messiah'. But the remainder of their escatology is very thin...just a few bare bones to raise the AntiChrist up on...in conjunction with every other nominal believer world wide. Their Imam's will tell them who to follow at that point, and a miracle worker will be easy for the Imam's to push as the long awaited 'Jesus, son of Mary'

Revelation does hint of a forerunner, and if you've studied the Old Testament prophets like Malachi, one is required per prophecy, just like how John the Baptist served that role. That's why at present I don't think the false messiah will appear until the forerunner has done their thing first. And that has not happened yet today.

When you said that we were 'very close' to the time of the AntiChrist, I think you may have actually understated the fact, and that the deception is already in place, making headway in every Believer who is not truly sure who Mashiach is. The fact that so very few people see the very real danger in a Gnostic 'Jesus', (Catholics, Islam, and some Protestants) while it is already so firmly established is a very terrible prospect.


Q

It's really a lot worse than that today. Recall the Luke 17 prophecy at the end Jesus gave that wheresoever the carcase (dead) is, that's where the eagles will be gathered together. Many Christian brethren are already prepared to be raptured prior to the coming tribulation, so what if some way that situation is covered somehow for the deceived? They'll be flocking to Jerusalem to that false one, thinking he's Jesus. All their preachers need do is admit they had part of the prophecy wrong, and that they are simply to go over there, because Christ is there. Afterall, a great gathering to the holy land of believers to Christ Jesus is written.

 

[Richard Neal]

The idea of a 'pseudochristos' per Strong's is 'a spurious Messiah'. The Greek word pseudo with 'spurious' means a fake, an imposter, which is more specific than just the idea of 'false'.

That's why the ones of Matt.24:5 are different from that 'pseudochristos' of Matt.24:24 coming to work supernatural miralces.

Is there more written about those great signs and wonders that pseudochrist will do on earth as actually being... supernatural miracles? Yes...


Rev 13:13-15
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
(KJV)

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
(KJV)

One would have to be out of their mind to think that's about some flesh man coming to say he is Christ only.



I actually like Kaoticprofit, but not his moniker, and not his doctrines from orthodox unbelieving Jews. I truly believe he is simply deceived by those he's listening to, that's all. But this is a Christian forum, not an orthodox Jewish forum for the adherents of Judaism which still refuse Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ-Messiah.

I have some family that doesn't even believe in God, as many fellow-believers here no doubt have some family that do not. That doesn't mean I hate them. But it doesn't mean we cannot rebuke them in Christ when they are in error, in hopes they might re-consider their fallen position.

The Greek prefix "anti" actually has two meaning; Against, as the prefix means in English, and "in place of" as in the Antichrist will be an impostor Christ, an imitation Christ. And John tells us that he will believe in the Gnostic heretical Christology which teaches that Jesus Christ was merely a man...If you don't know or understand Gnosticism you can not understand large segments of Paul's writings as well as John's. Nor can you possible properly interpret end time prophecy because Gnosticism - the ancient archenemy of the Church, plays such a significant role in end time events....

Questor is flat wrong when he claims that Islam is not awaiting Jesus Christ - because they certainly are..."Jesus, son of Mary" is spoken about more often in the Koran than any other human being - including Muhammad himself. al-Mahdi is not even mentioned in the pages of the Koran - did you know that?...The Hadiths are full of stories of "Jesus, son of Mary" and his anticipated return from Paradise...Now, is "Jesus, son of Mary" of Islam the same god-man that Jesus Christ is for the Christian - of course not. Islam, as a Gnostic religion, believes in the heretical Christology known to Gnosticism as Dosetism. A specific Christological heresy that has been around since the 2nd century A.D....Obviously no one on this forum knows or understands anything about the great archenemy of Christendom, Gnosticism. If you did, you guys wouldn't be arguing back and forth about things you obviously know nothing about - much like the blind leading the blind...I suggest you read the works of the Church Fathers, continue studying about Gnosticism, then apply your new knowledge to Islam and end time prophecy - as well as to Paul's writings and John's, and then you begin to grasp the end time paradigm Scripture intended all Christians to know and understand...And, in the process, stop wasting your time arguing over such none-sensical topics as Babylon, Rome, the EU, Catholicism, Gog and MaGog, Russia, etc, etc, that you argue over - all of which have little to nothing to do with end time prophecy...Stop regurgitating works you have read from years past because they were wrong...Neither you, nor the authors of the works you have read, can prove any of the crazy arguments or paradigms you guys put forth. Because those authors, like you guys, lack[ed] any knowledge what so ever about the great archenemy of the Church - Gnosticism...It is sad but 'My people die because of a lack of knowledge" even now, in the 21st century...

Richard Neal - author Kingdom of the Antichrist

As long as you are looking in the middle east at a nation of antichrist and not understanding that the church has become the rebellious house . Then you will also be oblivious when the truth overtakes you like the floods of Noah and the fires of Sodom.


2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;


Matthew 23
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Dude; in 2nd Timothy 4 Paul is talking about the doctrine of the proto-Gnostics within the Church at his time. This heresy, Paul says, will "grow like gangrene" within the Church, and it did, until it was physically and legally put out of the Church after three hundred-plus years of intellectual and physical warfare. You obviously know nothing about Church history, or about the origins and history of Gnosticism or you wouldn't be comparing 2nd Tim 4 with Matt 23 - because the two have absolutely nothing to do with one another....

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote: " Orthodox Jews would never accept Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, and that's the point. For Islam to be preaching of a return of Jesus, that means Jesus of Nazareth Who the Jews refused then, and still refuse today, and would again so long as He is presented as being Jesus of Nazareth. No one can escape that point. "

Orthodox Jews WILL accept Jesus, you said never, but right before Jesus retursn he will do so BECAUSE he will be accepted. Sure it may be out of fear of Satan coming after Israel, burt none the less... the Jews Orthodox or not will accept him fully. You are corrrct in that the Orthodox Jews desire to never accept that Jesus as God made manifest and their Messsiah and their Savior, but they certainly will come around. Consider who Jesus is coming to fight for, can he do that for a people that has denied him and continues to deny him?

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote: " Orthodox Jews would never accept Jesus of Nazareth as Messiah, and that's the point. For Islam to be preaching of a return of Jesus, that means Jesus of Nazareth Who the Jews refused then, and still refuse today, and would again so long as He is presented as being Jesus of Nazareth. No one can escape that point. "

Orthodox Jews WILL accept Jesus, you said never, but right before Jesus retursn he will do so BECAUSE he will be accepted. Sure it may be out of fear of Satan coming after Israel, burt none the less... the Jews Orthodox or not will accept him fully. You are corrrct in that the Orthodox Jews desire to never accept that Jesus as God made manifest and their Messsiah and their Savior, but they certainly will come around. Consider who Jesus is coming to fight for, can he do that for a people that has denied him and continues to deny him?

For today they will not (excepting a remnant). I speak of the "house of Judah" as a whole.

The Luke 23 example I mentioned is one of the Bible examples of that. And the greater example of their deception is the idea of building another temple to start up Old Covenant sacrifices again. If you don't understand that for today, then you're not facing reality about the unbelieving Jews today.

 

[Richard Neal]

The Muslim's believe just like you do. That the anti-christ (dajjal) will be a Jew! John Hagee believes he will be a homosexual Jew! How Foolish!
Is this the verse you're talking about!!!

Jhn 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Remember that I told you that IF is a conditional particle with no certainty as to it's fulfillment!

The men of sin will be Islamic. The word 'mixed' in Daniel 2's iron and clay prove it! The word mixed is 'arab' and denotes Arabia or an Arabian. Not a Jew! Daniel 8 also say's that the king of fierce countenance will come from 'Grecia" not Israel.* Isaiah say's the anti-christ would be an Assyrian....not a Jew!
You must be saying that Babylon the Great and the harlot have all to do with Israel. That idea is full of contradictions. Too many for me to confront tonight.

From the beginning Islam has severly persecuted both Christian's and Jews. Today, nearly everyone that is persecuted or killed is done so at the hands of Muslim's and in the name of Allah.

In Rev 17 John is taken by the Spirit into the wilderness, translated desert, to be shown the judgment of the great whore. The desert is where Mecca resides. Rome Italy does not reside in a dessert. Islam has been called "the desert religion." Islam came out of the desert and the seat of Islam is still in the desert today in Mecca, another city of seven hills. The harlot is used interchangeably with Babylon and "that great city." Ancient Babylon is located in Iraq, a Muslim country in the very geographical center of the Islamic world.

It was "Arabian's" who dominated the Muslim world from 622 to 1058 and they persecute both the church and Israel today, Rome doesn't.

Here are some statistics from that time. Info source: Halley's Bible Handbook.
The Crusades have been considered as one of the greatest atrocities of all of history. For 600 years Christianity flourished in the bible lands. That is until Islam emerged. In the 7th century, Muslim's nearly exterminated Christianity. From Southwest Asia to Northern Africa and all of the Middle East, Christianity was blotted out. Now, and for the last 1300 years, the "bible lands" have been completely dominated by Islam. After Asia, Northern Africa and the Middle-East fell to Islam, they headed for France and encountered my ancestor, Charles Martel at Tours. The Muslim's army was defeated. That was one the most decisive battles of the Middle Ages. Many historians and secularist say that had it not been for Charles Martel, not only would all of Europe had fallen to Islam, but Christianity may have been completely wiped out!

From 1206 to 1227 under Genghis Kahn,
In Asia; 50,000 cities and towns were burned; 5,000,000 people were murdered; In Asia Minor, 630,000 people were butchered;

Under Tamerlane, 1337 to 1402,
A similsr hurricane of destruction, route everywhere marked with ruined fields and burned villages and blood. At the gate of every city it was his custom to build piles of thousands of heads; at Baghdad, 90.000 skulls!
The fall of Constantinople, (1453) to the Turks, brought to an end the Eastern Roman Empire, and jarred Europe with a second threat of Islamic control which later was stopped by John Sobieski in the battle of Vienna (1683).
No other religion or government on earth today kills people like Muslim's do. And no religion or government in the past, to include Hitler and the like, have murdered more people than Muslim's. They've had 1400 years to to become the most murderous people on earth.

Over the centuries the amount of people murdered at the hands of Muslim's far out number those of Rome. It is a fact that Muslim's have murdered more Christian's since 1998 than in all of history! (Voice of the Martyr's)

Now tell me. Just what is it that the Jews and Israel is doing to fill the harlot's cup today???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fE4beY8LjU
　

Neither Gengas Khan or Tamerlane were muslims - get your facts right...You can argue all day long about al-Dajjal and others - and be right - but when you blow one or two facts like you just did, you lose the argument...

Actually, as I have found out today, according to the top 10 English websites of Islam, the Muslim's believe that 'Jesus, son of Mary', will return from heaven, where they believe he is hanging out, waiting for the day of his return. I would read a few more, but there are over half a million of Islamic sites about 'Jesus, son of Mary'.

The Muslim's believe that a gnostic 'Jesus', one who never died on the Cross, was an ascetic Jewish Prophet, caught up by 'God' into heaven, and they are expecting him returning as a human 'Messiah'. Everybody's 'Messiah'.

They also believe that the Mahdi is a kind of forerunner (John the Baptist, anyone?) to 'Jesus, son of Mary' returning, and that the false Prophet is an evil third personage, to make things more complicated, that 'Jesus, son of Mary' will dispose of in battle.

This is why many so called 'Christian's' are gravitating to Islam...these nominal believers, which are Protestants worldwide, Catholic's, Coptic's, Eastern Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox. They think that this 'Jesus, son of Mary' is Yah'shua ben Notsri!

This is the 'Jesus' Paul warned of, the 'another Jesus' that was already working in his own new congregations, the Gnostics, and even the Ebionites.

There will be an alliance of some sort among those of Islam...for the Ezekial 38 war against Israel that ushers in the coming of the AntiChrist. Whether it will be a caliphate at that time, or later, is immaterial.

That the Islamic people are teaching a JEWISH 'Jesus, son of Mary', in terms that the Orthodox Jews can accept (no divinity of this 'Jesus', just a 'Prophet') scares the living daylights out of me, when combined with what is actually going on in the middle east just now.

It doesn't matter if there is a Caliphate, or anything else, the UN, or a supposed reincarnation of a 'Roman Empire'. The 'Jesus' they preach is not Yah'shua (yup, changed my spelling and pronunciation to Hebrew...Yeshua is Aramaic), but he'll make an AntiChrist everyone can believe in..., which is why this 'Jesus, son of Mary' will make it as a theocratic wonder...Jewish, a Prophet, accepted by Islam, Catholics, and many varieties of Protestants, and semi-protestants?

An ascetic Jew, preaching a type of 'communitarism' under Sharia law (the Essene's were a communal group - a tribal replacement for all those who were kicked out of their own family at the time, while the First Nazarene group in Jerusalem was also a communal group, again a replacment for the family that everyone lost by taking up with Yah'shua.), which is not all that different from Rabbinical Orthodox Traditions?

It's a lovely setup...google 'Jesus, son of Mary, Last Hour' , and you too can see the Parousia getting even closer.

But I agree, there is no need of a Caliphate to pull this one off...just cooperation amoungst 'believer's' worldwide. But it is interesting that the 10 areas mentioned in Ezekial as part of the Gog Magog coalition are all being run, or taken over, by the Muslim Brotherhood. And they seem to want a caliphate.

What if someone want's you to bow down to 'Jesus, son of Mary'? The Islamic peoples are evidently quite willing to do so. And on their English website's, they freely speak of 'God' being Allah, and 'Jesus, son of Mary', being the Messiah.

Well, as for me, I follow Yah'shua ben Notsri haMashiach, the son of YHVH, not 'Jesus' (Issa), son of 'Mary' (Miryam), the Prophet of Allah.



Q

You must have read my book - Kingdom of the Antichrist, since I am the only person putting forth the argument you just made, and, because your polemic has changed so drastically and so quickly...It is a beautiful thing to see a brother whose eyes have now been opened and, as a result, can now debate the truth as forcefully as you just did...Keep up the good work brother...

Richard Neal

As long as you are looking in the middle east at a nation of antichrist and not understanding that the church has become the rebellious house . Then you will also be oblivious when the truth overtakes you like the floods of Noah and the fires of Sodom.


2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;


Matthew 23
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

Dude, how could "the Church become the rebellious house" when it is martyred during the Great Tribulation Period?...Your hate for the brothers and sisters who are the Church is obvious...How could one with such hate for the Bride of Christ ever inherit the Kingdom of Christ?...2nd Tim 4 is referring to the proto-Gnostics of the early Church era; Matt 23 is referring to the heretical Jewish party of the Pharisees who, beginning in 135 A.D., would become the heresy we know today as Rabbinic Judaism...How do you confuse these two heresies with the Church?....Your hatred for all that is good - the Church - has blinded you my friend...

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran wrote: " For today they will not (excepting a remnant). I speak of the "house of Judah" as a whole.

The Luke 23 example I mentioned is one of the Bible examples of that. And the greater example of their deception is the idea of building another temple to start up Old Covenant sacrifices again. If you don't understand that for today, then you're not facing reality about the unbelieving Jews today. "

Ok Vet if you are claiming that today they will not accept Jesus, then we are on the same page and stand in agreement. Will they accept the Beast's Mark... generally speaking... no! Will a third Temple be built? - Absolutely... Will the Daily Sacrifice take place... Absolutely. Would the third temple need to be built or the Daily Sarcifice need to be built for Jesus to come back to rule.... nope, not asa rule necessary for God, but as a necessity for the Jews... yes on both counts. The Jews could sacrifice a watermelon and the sacrifice would still be valid... however scripture says both the temple will be re-built and the Daily Sacrifice will take place. So the Third Temple will be rebuilt as well as the inner-sanctum, ( and it could be comprised of a Refrigerator box and still qualify but, scripture maintains the Jew wil build it - since that is scripture then God demands it. but not because God needs it but becasue man needs it. the Daily Sacrifice will be re-started aslo, not because God needs it, but rather, becasue man needs it. Since this too is scripture then God demands it be so.

 

[veteran]

Veteran wrote: " For today they will not (excepting a remnant). I speak of the "house of Judah" as a whole.

The Luke 23 example I mentioned is one of the Bible examples of that. And the greater example of their deception is the idea of building another temple to start up Old Covenant sacrifices again. If you don't understand that for today, then you're not facing reality about the unbelieving Jews today. "

Ok Vet if you are claiming that today they will not accept Jesus, then we are on the same page and stand in agreement. Will they accept the Beast's Mark... generally speaking... no! Will a third Temple be built? - Absolutely... Will the Daily Sacrifice take place... Absolutely. Would the third temple need to be built or the Daily Sarcifice need to be built for Jesus to come back to rule.... nope, not asa rule necessary for God, but as a necessity for the Jews... yes on both counts. The Jews could sacrifice a watermelon and the sacrifice would still be valid... however scripture says both the temple will be re-built and the Daily Sacrifice will take place. So the Third Temple will be rebuilt as well as the inner-sanctum, ( and it could be comprised of a Refrigerator box and still qualify but, scripture maintains the Jew wil build it - since that is scripture then God demands it. but not because God needs it but becasue man needs it. the Daily Sacrifice will be re-started aslo, not because God needs it, but rather, becasue man needs it. Since this too is scripture then God demands it be so.

All things to complete a prophecy in God's Word are needed, and will be fulfilled, simply because they are part of the prophecy. WE cannot modify them. God has already spoken what will come to pass, and we can rely 100% on what He said will happen. Otherwise He would not be mistake-free.

Man does not need another temple in Jerusalem, nor sacrifices again. Christ fulfilled the need for those things. The difference is that the orthodox Jews don't believe Christ came yet to fulfill that need, so they think those things are still needed. I think you well know this, so I don't know what you're going on about.

 

[tgwprophet]

Simply that another temple will be built. Sure it is not necessary, except prophecy mandates it, becasue the Jews want it. The Daily sacrifice will be re-started, it too is not necessary, except prophecy mandates it and the Jews want it. As per any necessity by God or Jesus... Well I expect Jesus to rule by means of a Temple not a "government" office, so why not the next one? This does not mean he will not remodel pr alter it a mite.

 

[veteran]

Simply that another temple will be built. Sure it is not necessary, except prophecy mandates it, becasue the Jews want it. The Daily sacrifice will be re-started, it too is not necessary, except prophecy mandates it and the Jews want it. As per any necessity by God or Jesus... Well I expect Jesus to rule by means of a Temple not a "government" office, so why not the next one? This does not mean he will not remodel pr alter it a mite.

You mean why not this next temple that today's Jews plan to build in Jerusalem?

Here's why not....

Zech 6:12-13
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
(KJV)

So if the temple the Jews are preparing to build in Jerusalem today is not the one Christ "The BRANCH" will build when He returns, then WHAT is going to happen to the Jew's temple version?

Christ told us that too, if we were paying attention...

Matt 24:1-3
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and His disciples came to Him for to shew Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
(KJV)

For His disciples to ask Him that, they have to had a clue of what He meant about that, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

That area of Jerusalem is going to tremble violently at Christ's second coming. The whole earth will tremble.

 

[tgwprophet]

Veteran Wrote: " So if the temple the Jews are preparing to build in Jerusalem today is not the one Christ "The BRANCH" will build when He returns, then WHAT is going to happen to the Jew's temple version? "

Who built Trump Towers.. do you think Donald Trump laid a single block?

My brother is a commericiaql contractor, and so he gets credit for the building, yet he does not necessarily have to lift one stone. Your claim is Jesus builds the temple " when " he returns, but the is an un-necessity for Jesus as the contractor can orchrastrate the building as the contractor from heaven BEFORE he returns. And so the teemple is still built at the start of Tribulations just as God's Word states. The setting of the corner stone begins Tribulation.

 

[Richard Neal]

Veteran is full of presumptions. I'm not a Jew and I have nothing to do with orthodox Judaism. Everything I talk about I researched myself. Veteran has accused me of being involved with several other religious organizations and he's a liar about it all and I don't care if I get banned. The things he's accused me of aren't true. He needs to shut up and stop accusing people of things that are untrue. He, as well as most of you on this forum, have fallen for and adhere to a host of false prophecy and very few of you know what a hermeneutic is let alone have one, and very few of you know how to interpret God's Word!

The biggest and most deceitful lies that have ever entered the church is pre-tribulationism and globalism.
Rome, the Pope, Catholicism, and the EU are nowhere to be found in end-time prophecy yet people still believe that prejudiced Protestant lie which is still promoted throughtout the church.

The devil has the church right where he wants it.....totally DECEIVED about the end!
It won't be long but after the next 911 most of you will be manufacturing more and more stuff to fit your false prophecies. And it won't be Rome or the EU that brings prophecy to pass. It will be the Arab's and the Muslim's! The apostasy is now taking place. But you guys would rather demonize the church and say that the apostasy is a 'Christian' apostasy.
I'm actually disgusted with the average Christian's level of incompetence with interpretation. Nobody is here to learn anything. They believe they already have it all figured out!
And I put most of the blame on the so called "prophecy experts."
I praise God that He has helped me snap out of deception because I use to be a globalist, a revived Roman Empirist, and a pretribulationist. I use to believe a lot of what you all do.
I'm tired of dealing with a bunch of incompetent prophecy misfits. I have more important things to do.

See you later.........maybe!

Well said...

 

[tgwprophet]

Kaoticprofit... Veteran has not figured out who to rebuke and who to correct. More often then not he seems to sit on rebuke. I will explain this and hopefully he will get it. Rebuke is for non-beieivers following a false god. Correction is for a SAVED Believer who has confessed Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, whose rose from the Dead, paid for our sins, who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Correction os for all of us as we are those learning and striving for truth. Sometime rebuke is for the trolls - these people are self-elevators spreading myth in prophecy hoping something happens near to what they claim, so their status mey be raised. Not understanding our status is something we should want lowered that there is more room in our vessel for God to fill.

Though we may disagree often Kaoticprofit, it is the way for us to compare notes... the studies we have taken to help each other in our quest to bee a brighter lght to those walking in darkness.

I guess one could argue on the grounds of whom Jesus rebuked... but we are not Jesus, so let our corrections go to our brothers in Christ Jesus and our rebukes to those who follow false gods.

 

[Richard Neal]

kaoticprofit, on 21 October 2012 - 09:53 PM, said: " The Muslim's believe just like you do. That the anti-christ (dajjal) will be a Jew! John Hagee believes he will be a homosexual Jew! How Foolish! "

Kaoticprofit, perhaps you should temper your words?

John Hagee has said many things, some in error but not foolsh.
John Hagee said... If God does not judge USA then God will need to appologize to Sodom and Gamorrah.
I agree with John!

In John Hagee's understanding of the anti-christ - the Beast being queer... I will say this... This Beast is said to not have want of a woman. That could easily imply that either... This Beast is a homosexual...or... a woman or sexually dis-functional. Not many get elected into public office unless they seem wholesome - meaning they are married and have a family. I expectf that the Beast may have a family, but when the sanctuary is pollutted that sexual activity of the normal, healthy family life will die.

Veteran, Correct again... Islam has NO Messiah... well said.
Is it my contention that the Beast cannot be Islamic? no Roman? no American? no
At this time, I remain open minded.

Islam DOESN"T need a messianic belief to fulfill eschatological prophecy - It merely needs a "false" or "imitation" (anti)Christ. And they have that in their "Jesus, son of Mary" who they teach is the very same man as Jesus of Nazareth, only the Christians lie, according to Islam, when they say Jesus of Nazareth, or "Jesus, son of Mary" is God...The man "Jesus, son of Mary" did not die on the cross, according to Islam - that too is a lie from the Christians. Rather, he was taken from the cross by Allah (the Gnostic Doesitist teaching) and taken to Paradise, much like Enoch and Elijah, from where he will descend in The Final Hour," to lead the Islamic hordes against a Jewish army led by a Jew known as al-Dajjal (the Antichrist). After annihilating the Jewish army and al-Dajjal, Jesus, son of Mary," along with al-Mahdi will lead their Islamic hordes in a world-wide jihad to cleanse the world of all "infidels" ( a word borrowed from the Christian Crusaders) or non-muslims...Stop looking at prophecy as if it has to be orthodox christian beliefs. The whole point is that the Antichrist, his false prophet, his kingdom and the religion that that kingdom is built upon is all heretical - Heresy is the great enemy of God and His Church. Man, whether Roman, Babylonian, Persian, etc can only kill the body. Heresy steals the soul. The Early Church Fathers knew this, that is exactly why they wailed against the various heresies of Gnosticism of their day in their writings, yet say very little against the Roman Empire who was burning them at the stake...Because they knew heresy is a much greater enemy than any man, beast, government, etc...

Dan 11:37
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

In this verse Daniel is obviously talking about various gods who the Antichrist will have no "regard" for...The "God of his fathers" should be seen as Allah; "the desire of women" should be viewed as Jesus Christ; "nor any god" is obvious in its meaning...He has no "regard" for any god because he himself will "set himself up in the Temple of God proclaiming himself to be God."...
(KJV)

"the desire of" = chemdah = delight

That involves all the pleasantries involving women. Hard to get around that meaning, showing it's not about your more political meaning as to Islamic relations with women.

Another marker there about his character is that he will not regard ANY god, which means Islam's allah too. And yet still the strongest marker there, "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers", which is pointing to The God of Israel!!! And that means what? His identity is associated with the people of Israel, and not with the Arabs! And that aligns with the very idea my Lord Jesus foretold about the coming pseudo-Christ of Matt.24:23-26. Not an Islamic messiah, but Israel's Messiah! So much for your idea of hermeneutics.






I didn't cop out; my explanation of that is all within the several threads here on this Forum like I said before to you. If you didn't care to read those, then I'm not going to be foolish enough to give you a personal replay, especially because of your haughty demeanor.

Vetern said: " There's EVERY reason for Satan to mimic God's marking of His, for it involves the main event for the end of this world. What event do you think is the main event by Satan for this world at the end?' "

And if Satan's Mark is better mis-understood if it does not mimic God's Mark(s) ?: Certainly Satan requires man to bow before him of their own free will, but when is that necessary? Can he not first demand it until such a time as people really believe bowing to him is righteus? Were not the german people bowing to hitler after they were forced and then, after they were infected with hitler's words enough to think it was righteous?

Remember how well the german people took to Hitler's speeches.


If Satan requires all to take his Mark or first suffer humiliation, then suffer loss, then make it manditory, then require one to take it or perish it would near parallel Hitler's action. What is that called? Stockholm Syndrome - I think. Of course Satan's speeches will be even greater and more effective than what Hitler achieved with his speeches.

Dude! The Mark of the Beast has one intent - and one intent only...And that is to force those who have refused to worship the beast (the Antichrist) through his religion (beast), which is Islam...For those Christians alive during The Great Tribulation Period, they will, obviously, refuse his mark - refuse to worship the beast. In an attempt at forcing them to do so, they will not be able "to buy or sell" the necessities of life. The intent is to force them into submission and false worship. Imagine a Christian mother whose child needs penicillin, for example, or the child will die. All she has to do is accept his mark, then she can buy the penicillin and the child will live. What does she do?...Now you understand the intent of the mark of the beast...