Confidence In The Flesh?

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bbyrd009

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God floods us with His love...we get up off our knees SAVED.
or deluded, yes. Tares are powerful things, and it seems intuitive to pull them, right

projecting this "saved" status for any amount of time into the future is against Scripture, imo; you will know them by their fruit. If you are "saved" right now, and then commit an offense against someone, you are lost until you confess and rebound
So, not just one action of man confessing sins..but the Action of Jesus love revealed on the cross.
no Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die

confession is made unto salvation


now, are you forgiven of your sins, whether you confess or not?
diff Q, but i have already seen how this forgiveness will not save anyone, even demonstrated it here a couple times
 
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bbyrd009

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So...his quote above is correct > We cannot repent "of sins" to be saved..<
It is a part of the whole, but it is not the whole work of salvation...if so..
Salvation would be 'of man', not of God!!!!o_O
seek your own salvation, so imo there are two sides to this story as well,
and a contrite heart is not really hard to discern; they are always quick to confess i guess

i am constrained from agreeing with this "We cannot repent "of sins" to be saved" mostly bc of this movement i see where believers now believe that they can no longer even sin, after a pulpit profession.

So nevermind repentance, imo, show me confession first, that is free lol, rebound usually costs money or something right
we tell stories of the rebounded trying to atone for past sins for the comedy value now, who actually does it. Or preaches it?
and imo also adjust the definition of "saved," which is completely whacked now, by the same tassel-toes guy i guess
 

bbyrd009

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"i don't have to do anything except believe, Jesus is perfect, so i don't have to be, just turn your eyes to Jesus,"

these are all antiChrist yack wadr
 

Helen

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surely this is a possibility, yes. Imo this will be evidenced by fruit, and is easily counterfeited tho

Yes 'easily counterfeited' I agree...but that is their probably not ours. God knows which is His fruit. We have no fruit of our own. He is the Vine..the fruit grown on and from the Vine...so it is only His fruit which counts.
 
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Helen

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"i don't have to do anything except believe, Jesus is perfect, so i don't have to be, just turn your eyes to Jesus,"

these are all antiChrist yack wadr

Again...not your problem.
Song of Songs "because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.”

We are responsible for us...firstly...and, if we see our brother getting tripped up we go to warn him.
 

Helen

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seek your own salvation, so imo there are two sides to this story as well,
and a contrite heart is not really hard to discern; they are always quick to confess i guess

i am constrained from agreeing with this "We cannot repent "of sins" to be saved" mostly bc of this movement i see where believers now believe that they can no longer even sin, after a pulpit profession.

So nevermind repentance, imo, show me confession first, that is free lol, rebound usually costs money or something right
we tell stories of the rebounded trying to atone for past sins for the comedy value now, who actually does it. Or preaches it?
and imo also adjust the definition of "saved," which is completely whacked now, by the same tassel-toes guy i guess

For the most part I do know where you are coming from here.
I too am not into "easy believeism"...as we know the old saying goes.
" I never trust a man who does not limp" referring to Jacob after he was touched in his thigh/walk.
A persons walk, which has no cross in it...is suspect. But on a forum Site such as this...we don't know how each other lives.
We don't know how much each other really spends one-to-one before and with the Lord.
I do think that we can get a bit of an idea by the spirit that a poster post in.
ie. Is he/she desiring to 'be heard', or 'prove their point' or 'spout a favourite doctrine'...all self promotion.....OR when we read a post does our heart warm toward the Lord..are we challenged to desire more of The Lord.
And for me...even when maybe a poster is a bit harsh, is it with the desire to 'redeem' and not judge.
These are the things I look for in members.
 

Helen

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be perfect, as I am perfect would seem to argue here;
True...but is not the NT emphasis on BE...maybe for you it is on DO..
But I know I can never DO that, in my human flesh however hard I try...never. Therefore , for us the answer becomes FAITH...it must be faith.

i can witness that you are measuring up right now! In ten minutes, who knows? I can also testify that you are not measuring up right now, if you are neglecting puppies, say, or whatever, children in need, to reply to me. Seems to me that i am called to do the first one, and avoid the second one for the most part; the opposite of what i normally do, iow.

Well Mark. I guess that we will go around and around this point. So maybe I should never try to do it any more. Really.
Being saved and "in Christ" is relevant to salvation...what we DO with the gift is our responsibility.
It is us who " Make our calling and election sure..."
What we Do, how we live daily, is our free choice...it will be gold, silver or precious stones...or just wood, hay and stubble ...our "living" or "doing" is what will be judged...
One is Salvation one is our Works.
Somehow you don't seem to grasp this...
Your posts don't reflect that you are enjoying your salvation relationship with the Lord...but only that you have you eye continually on good Works. :oops:
 

bbyrd009

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We will always have sin in our flesh, and we will always need to remember we are justified by faith alone, in Christ alone, in order to allow Christ to live through us. Can we do that and at the same time teach people they need to repent "of sin" to be justified?
i'm ok with the op down to about here, fwiw. "We will always have sin in our flesh" is stated too broadly to agree with "be perfect, as I am perfect," and denies that a single individual can even attain that, as Christ has assured us that we can. Iow sentence one and sentence two seem to be at odds; if i can possibly allow Christ to live in me, then i by definition have no sin, right then anyway.

Can we do that and at the same time teach people they need to repent "of sin" to be justified? Certainly, when rebound is evidence of faith, as Scripture states, but imo one should not be framing their relationship to others (except maybe their children) in this context, anyway. We are called to forgive, not lecture. "Preach, preaching" is almost universally a bad translation of Scripture, imo. Demonstrate, profess, and show are usually better alts imo; the other amounts to pulling tares, usually.
 

bbyrd009

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But I know I can never DO that, in my human flesh however hard I try...never.
sounds like Catholic yack, wadr. What sin are you committing at the moment? Aren't you "in Christ" right now? And aren't you still in your flesh? So while i get you, these are meant as analogies, and imo they can be easily overstated.

We have no Record of Paul making any amends, granted, but that does not negate that he murdered ppl, and owed amends, over and above his confession and rebound, which is Recorded. Why this is not treated in Scripture i can't say, i would even deem it a failing personally. It can even be stated that our NT was written by an unrepentant murderer, or at least an unamended one, not that i believe this, but i don't understand why Scripture allows the case to even be made myself
 

bbyrd009

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Being saved and "in Christ" is relevant to salvation...what we DO with the gift is our responsibility.
It is us who " Make our calling and election sure..."
i agree, but it must be noted that ppl can more easily just profess a calling or election,
which let's be honest that is the Christian MO, right, to blow one's own horn
the "gift" turns into something received merely by belief, rather than counting the cost
or holding out to any end, all of those and about 20 more are negated or ignored imo
"believe on the Lord and you will be saved" only exists in translations, see
it changes in the Lex
 

bbyrd009

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One is Salvation one is our Works.
you are what you do, in Hebrew syntax; being is doing, to them
i am not even a little interested in this navel-gazing "salvation," that does not recognize the need for amends
that faith in Christ is made into so often, although i'm sure you guys don't mean this either, ok.

yes, one can also go astray believing that they need to do something for God, as Paul did; but then that is not really the focus of the op either, i guess
 

Godssrvr

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i'm ok with the op down to about here, fwiw. "We will always have sin in our flesh" is stated too broadly to agree with "be perfect, as I am perfect," and denies that a single individual can even attain that, as Christ has assured us that we can. Iow sentence one and sentence two seem to be at odds; if i can possibly allow Christ to live in me, then i by definition have no sin, right then anyway.

Can we do that and at the same time teach people they need to repent "of sin" to be justified? Certainly, when rebound is evidence of faith, as Scripture states, but imo one should not be framing their relationship to others (except maybe their children) in this context, anyway. We are called to forgive, not lecture. "Preach, preaching" is almost universally a bad translation of Scripture, imo. Demonstrate, profess, and show are usually better alts imo; the other amounts to pulling tares, usually.

Until you recognize scripture for what it says, you will never know the truth. God said we have no righteousness (Isaiah 64:6, Romans 3:10)! Jesus said to believe is to do the works of God (John 6:28-29). We will always be corrupted with sin in our flesh (1 Cor. 15:45-50). Jesus said we must be born of the Spirit (John 6:6). John said those who are born of God cannot sin (1 John 3:9). John was speaking of our spirit in Christ as Paul teaches (Romans 8:10). We are made a new creature in Christ by justification of faith and the work of the Holy Spirit. I have supported everything I've said with scripture that is clearly used in context with my statements. People will either believe the Word of God or they won't. I sincerely hope you will study the scripture to understand the truth.
 

bbyrd009

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we accept a premise of "human being" that the Hebrews would not understand, and this just builds upon that premise, i guess. I'm not sure how i could demonstrate this, but Hebrew is even predicated upon actions, "human doing" was their premise, therefore Jesus did not ever say "to believe is to do the works of God," as the Lexicon clarifies, John 6:29 Lexicon: Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."(this will clarify only after the link is accessed)
You read "believe" there because some translator knew that that would suit you better; but i would be discovering faith in There myself.

I sincerely hope you will study the scripture to understand the truth, iow; but i mean no offense, and you can believe what you like ok

obviously one could not be both "always corrupted with sin in the flesh" and also "cannot sin" at the same time, so wadr you evince sincerity but you are not even being consistent at the moment, maybe if you cleared this up a bit? Because with all due respect the very last thing i would ever agree to is your well-intentioned paragraph there, where one is taken from "lost" to "sinless" after a little altar profession and some stated "belief," regardless of how popular it becomes. So if that is not your intention here, then you might clarify that also

and, just a ps, but i dunno if you are aware that you can also italicize and underline pretty easily with this software, see BoL for more :)
 
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bbyrd009

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"
The Hebrew language works different from ours. That makes it very difficult to translate, and that causes translations to be often poor and lacking. One of the differences is that the Hebrew language is much more dynamic than ours. Hebrew is all about action. Something is reckoned after what it does, not after how it looks. This principle is quite fundamental in Scriptures; it is applied all over. Probably most drastic in the Second Commandment where the Lord prohibits the making of graven images. A graven image after all does not move, and a statue that, for instance, tries to display a calf is not showing typical calf-behavior but static appearance.

The principle even occurs in the New Testament, which is written in Greek but with a Hebrew way of thinking. The second chapter of James, for instance, explains that a believer is not someone who looks like one, or even says she's one, but rather someone who acts like one. To be is to do.

(Hold that thought (15)
In Hebrew Scriptures, and all models derived thereof, entities are reckoned solely after their behavior and not after their appearance. An entity is a behavior, not that which executes the behavior.)

It is crucial that the reader takes a firm hold of this principle. If a modern Westerner would see a picture of a lion, she would say, "That is a lion."

If an ancient Hebrew would see someone gather and devour food, she would say, "That is a lion."
"
To Be Is To Do: A Fundamental Principle of the Hebrew Language

from my current fave, but there are other witnesses to this also
 

Godssrvr

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I sincerely hope you will study the scripture to understand the truth, iow; but i mean no offense, and you can believe what you like ok

Same to you. If you would actually read the scripture references to understand what it is God has said, you might understand. But you keep trying to misrepresent me instead. I have made it clear several times that scripture tells us the mortal man is incapable of righteousness, and the spirit in Christ is incapable of sin. You can believe what you like, I've used scripture for every point, and used it in context. You just refuse to acknowledge it as truth. So be it.
 

Godssrvr

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Believe as used in John 6:29.....

G4100
πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
 

bbyrd009

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True...but is not the NT emphasis on BE...maybe for you it is on DO..
you might see post...my last post, read that and we'll talk
But I know I can never DO that, in my human flesh however hard I try...never.
but gee, John said "those who are born of God cannot sin," Helen, so what gives?
I gotta run, please argue the point with the op, i might even just be hindering here lol
 

bbyrd009

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you keep trying to misrepresent me instead
i guess it seems that way, but what i mean to do is point out things that are being heard, when you may not mean them at all, ok?
Iow by all means correct where i have "mis-stated," as i'm sure you do not mean to justify Hitler or anything here lol
yes, i have intentionally gone to an extreme to illustrate a point, yes
gotta run for today, have a nice aft!
 

Godssrvr

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i guess it seems that way, but what i mean to do is point out things that are being heard, when you may not mean them at all, ok?
Iow by all means correct where i have "mis-stated," as i'm sure you do not mean to justify Hitler or anything here lol
yes, i have intentionally gone to an extreme to illustrate a point, yes
gotta run for today, have a nice aft!

I have repeatedly made the distinction between what scripture says is true for our flesh, and what is true for our spirit in Christ. You continue to fail to make the distinction. You "hear" what you want, so you will have some reason to argue with me. Please consider ALL the scripture that has been supplied to you before responding further.
 

bbyrd009

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ok, please reply to the posts that attempt to clarify the distinction, that you have skipped, before responding any further, ty

see, that's all i'm trying to do here, ok, if you want to testify those are your opportunity to do so; why ignore them?