'Confusion' of What Is Death...

[GRACE ambassador]

...solved for Comfort, by "What Saith ALL The Scriptures?" on This Important Doctrine:

man/woman/child = a tripartite being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your ​

Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming​

of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Comfort 2 Corinthians 1:3-4)​

A Divider/Discerner of the [internal] Two:

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper Than any two-edged sword, ​

Piercing Even To The Dividing Asunder Of soul And spirit, and of the joints and marrow,​

And Is A Discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)​

Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation - huh?:
What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):

​

a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of torment, having vision,​

speech, feeling, and remembering everything" (Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":​

​

b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:​

b1) Jesus, Just Before His Death, Clearly Said [ to the repentant thief ] "Today ​

thou Shalt Be With Me In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:​

​

b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?​

God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:​

OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [living soul that departs] to thy fathers in peace;​

thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​

​

"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man,​

and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons Isaac and​

Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son​

of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;" (Genesis 25:8-9)​

​

"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people,​

being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him." (Genesis 35:29)​

Jacob (v 1):

"And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered Unto ​

my people [living soul]: bury me with my fathers [dead body] in the cave​

that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite," (Genesis 49:29)​

So, the textual critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" =
"gathered with their people," and 'the soul is Non-existent,' Correct?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his​

feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people."​

(Genesis 49:33)​

Immediately his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!" Correct?

+ Further Confirmed By:

b3) The prophet Samuel's [ dead body ] was buried Nowhere Near his father​

Abraham's in "the cave of Machpelah," Correct? So that Cannot be the textual​

critic's theory "gathered to his fathers/people," right?​

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​

lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1 Samuel 25:1)​

Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' getting the witch at Endor to
call up Samuel from the dead" (1 Samuel 28:7-20)

Again, textual critics say that this is a "demon (one of the gods 'ascending out of the earth'"
[ theory ] that "appeared to the witch and Saul." huh? The witch "identified him as Samuel."
Did she lie?

Now, it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:

"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of The LORD, nor executedst His Fierce​

Wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath The LORD done this thing unto thee this day."​

(1 Samuel 28:18)​

But how, in heaven's name, did God Give demons the "gift of prophecy," to predict the future?:

"Moreover The LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines:​

and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: The LORD also shall deliver the​

host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines." (1 Samuel 28:19)​

Sorry, there were No theoretical demons in Paradise, So "after Samuel went back to
resting In Paradise," the next day, Saul and Jonathon were killed in battle, And
"gathered Unto their people," With Samuel, "As Prophesied," Correct?

b4) In the future, John saw:​

​

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the [living] souls of​

them that were slain [dead bodies] for The Word of God, and for the testimony​

which they held" (Revelation 6:9) "...cried out with loud voice...Given white robes..." ​

(vs 10-11)​

How is that 'nothingness/annihilation [no comfort],' when these are "living and conscious," Correct? FurtherMoreOver:

Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)​

+

"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},​

And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)​

+

"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who​

also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are​

always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,​

we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )​

We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,​

and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:​

"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = Very Comforting, Correct?:

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

1Th 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​

them [ souls ] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​

have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​

them [souls] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

God does Not Bring 'nothingness' but, living souls With Him! Amen.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.
-------------------------------------- =========
LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for All Your Comforting Words. Amen.
------------------------------------------------------------
Precious friends:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

 

[Keturah]

PTL for his glorious truth in the Spirit's understanding!

Amen and I say again.......
AMEN!!!!!!

 

[Keturah]

Effectively puts down the notion, lie, false doctrine, and just plain ignorance of annihilation!

 

[ElieG12]

The Scriptures say:

Ecl.12:4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.

Infernists believe the contrary of that ... They justify their position saying that this passage is talking about "what is done under the sun",
and in this way they try to show that they are not contradicting that biblical text. But is that really what Solomon says? Are dead people alive in any other place no-under the sun where they ignore the things that happen among the living?

Some even say that this truth registered in Ecclesiastes should not be accepted because, being a poetic book, doctrinal teachings cannot be extracted from it? Is that correct?

But also: Is only in the poetic books where the Scriptures talk about the unconscious state of those who die?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

I just had a person ask me this Grace, perhaps this will help in defining it:
Sure, the Bible does in fact define what death is. As you know God forewarned Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit of one tree in the garden they would die.
(Genesis 2:16, 17) . . .God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
God defined that to Adam when he sinned:
(Genesis 3:19) 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Later on, He further defined it:
(Psalm 146:4) 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6) . . .For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

It might be noted as well, that both animals and humans suffer the same death:
(Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) . . .there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Update; Added to post # 1, ALL Scripture, with This, which was overlooked:

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

1Th 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​

them [souls] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​

have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​

them [souls] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

God does NOT Bring 'annihilated nothingness' but, living souls, With Him! Amen.
______________________________________
Praise HIS Precious and Wonderful Name!

 

[ElieG12]

The Scriptures say:

Ecl.12:4 There is hope for whoever is among the living, because a live dog is better off than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.

Infernists believe the contrary of that ... They justify their position saying that this passage is talking about "what is done under the sun",
and in this way they try to show that they are not contradicting that biblical text. But is that really what Solomon says? Are dead people alive in any other place no-under the sun where they ignore the things that happen among the living?
(...)

Interestingly, the same people who say that Solomon only refers to the fact that the dead cannot learn the things of the living, assure that the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is a real event ... even though they cannot answer any question about the supposedly "real" details in that parable, such as the fact that a drop of water does not refresh anyone in a hellfire or that a soul has no tongue on which to drop that drop of water.

The point is that the Abraham in the parable speaks of Moses, who was not born yet when he died, so it is not supposed that he would know anything about Moses or the law that arose about 4 centuries later (Luke 16:27-31). Wouldn't that be contradictory to the belief that the dead don't know what happens among the living?

Infernists only speculate and cannot answer any question that is asked to them and based on what the Bible says, and when they do, they become worse in understanding even more questions ... more mistakes, lies and obvious fallacies and hostile or violent behavior and attitudes, to cover one mistake easy to solve setting things straight about a first wrong belief (2 Tim. 3:16,17). They become just stubborn followers of a pagan doctrine that the Roman church smuggled into the believers it controlled when the weeds of the apostasy grew and mixed with the wheat:

Matt. 13:36 Then after dismissing the crowds, he went into the house. His disciples came to him and said: “Explain to us the illustration of the weeds in the field.” 37 In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; 38 the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is a conclusion of a system of things, and the reapers are angels. 40 Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. 41 The Son of man will send his angels, and they will collect out from his Kingdom all things that cause stumbling and people who practice lawlessness, 42 and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be. 43 At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen.

 

[Bob Estey]

...solved for Comfort, by "What Saith ALL The Scriptures?" on This Important Doctrine:

man/woman/child = a tripartite being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your ​

Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming​

of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Comfort 2 Corinthians 1:3-4)​

A Divider/Discerner of the [internal] TWO:

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper Than any twoedged sword, ​

Piercing Even To The Dividing Asunder Of soul AND spirit, and of the joints and marrow,​

And Is A Discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)​

Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation - huh?:
What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):

a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of torment, having vision, speech,
feeling, and remembering everything" (Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":

b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:

b1) Jesus, Just Before HIS Death, Clearly Said [to the repentant thief] "Today
thou Shalt BE WITH ME In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:

b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:

OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [living soul that departs] to thy fathers in peace;​

thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​

​

"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man,​

and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons Isaac and​

Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son​

of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;" (Genesis 25:8-9)​

​

"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people,​

being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him." (Genesis 35:29)​

Jacob (v 1):

"And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered Unto ​

my people [living soul]: bury me with my fathers [dead body] in the cave​

that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite," (Genesis 49:29)​

So, the critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" = "gathered with their people,"
and 'the soul is NON-existant,' Correct?:

What Saith The Scriptures?:

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his​

feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people."​

(Genesis 49:33)​

IMMEDIATELY his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!" Correct?

+ Further Confirmed BY:

b3) The prophet Samuel's [dead body] was buried Nowhere Near his father Abraham's in "the cave
of Machpelah," Correct? So that Cannot be the critic's theory "gathered to his fathers/people," right?

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​

lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1 Samuel 25:1)​

Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' getting the witch at Endor to
call up Samuel from the dead" (1 Samuel 28:7-20)

Again, critics complain that this is a "demon (one of the gods 'ascending out of the earth'" [theory]
that "appeared to the witch and Saul." huh? The witch "identified him as Samuel." Did she lie?

Now, it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:

"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce​

wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day."​

(1 Samuel 28:18)​

But, how in heaven's name, did God Give demons the "gift of prophecy," to predict the future?:

"Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines:​

and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the​

host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines." (1 Samuel 28:19)​

Uh, sorry, NO theoretical demons were in Paradise, So "after Samuel went back to resting In Paradise,"
the next day, Saul and Jonathon were killed in battle, AND "gathered Unto their people," WITH Samuel,
"As Prophesied," Correct?

b4) In the future, John saw:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the [living] souls of them​

that were slain [dead bodies] for The Word of God, and for the testimony which they held"​

(Revelation 6:9) "...cried out with loud voice...Given white robes..." (vs 10-11)​

How is that 'nothingness/annihilation [no comfort],' when these are "living and conscious," Correct?

Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)
+
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},
And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)
+
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who
also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are
always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,
we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )

We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:

"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = VERY Comforting, Correct?:

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

1Th 4:13 "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​

them [souls] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​

have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​

them [souls] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

God does NOT Bring 'nothingness' but, living souls With Him! Amen.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.
-------------------------------------- =========
LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for ALL Your Comforting Words. Amen.
------------------------------------------------------------
Precious friends:

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

I think sometimes the word "die" means to suffer:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33-17-20 RSV

 

[ElieG12]

In Scripture the word "death" is just the opposite of the word "life", and dying is obviously ceasing to be alive.

Only within paganism did death acquire a mystical meaning, and it was obviously a lie originating from the enemy of God, who wishes to confuse human beings about their true nature with which we were created, about what we lost and what is the hope God is truly giving us.

We, humans depend on our bodies to stay alive. A brain damaged person can't even reason properly... what then? Was his immortal soul also damaged when his brain was damaged? Obviously there is not any immortal soul behind our physical bodies.

 

[Davy]

....

Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

ABOVE IS NOT BIBLICAL. Not what Ecclesiastes shows.

Many on men's false doctrine of the 'Dead in the Ground' theory like to immediately quote from Ecclesiastes 9 when speaking of flesh death. Their problem is they haven't actually studied what they are quoting. They are like mocking parrots that simply repeat what they have heard, not understanding what they say.

In Ecclesiastes 9, Solomon is giving a comparison between the wicked dead and the living (i.e., the righteous).

Eccl 9:5-6
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
KJV

Now ask yourself, is the memory of your dead loved ones forgotten? they no more have a reward? Do you truly... think that applies to those in Christ Jesus that have died??? No, that applies to the WICKED DEAD, especially the EXTREME DEAD, like the giant hybrids which the Genesis 6 fallen angels created, and that God brought the flood of Noah's day to wipe out, and also after that, when God told the children of Israel to destroy them in certain lands of Canaan.

Here is a verse that points directly to the GIANT HYBRID RACE which God had destroyed off the earth. The Hebrew for the word "deceased" (KJV) is actually a name for the giant-hybrids, Rephaim. So the following mention of the "dead" is NOT about normal flesh man that have died.

It is about the hybrid flesh giants from a mating of the fallen angels and flesh woman which SHALL NEVER BE RESURRECTED (God's Word teaches that all normal flesh men shall be resurrected - see John 5:28-29). But not these...

Isa 26:14
14 They are dead (Rephaim), they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish.
KJV

Did you notice in the above that God "made all their memory to perish"? Do you recall Ecclesiastes 9:5 that is highly quoted points to memory of the dead having been forgotten??? That is how many have ABUSED the Ecclesiastes 9 Scripture, trying to use it to serve their false 'dead in the ground' theory. They will even DENY... that Genesis 6 was actually about literal angels that took wives of the daughters of men, and their offspring produced the giant hybrids that became "men of renown", i.e. ,meaning 'men of the name', or 'of the legend' (the Titans of ancient mythology).

The Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 Scripture is in contrast to Eccl.9. In Eccl.12, we are shown what ACTUALLY happens at flesh death. If ever our "silver cord" is severed, our flesh goes back to the earthy elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That "silver cord" is something that keeps our spirit connected with our flesh body, because flesh and spirit are two separate operations of two separate dimensions of existence (John 3). So the two separate dimensions of existence written of in God's Word must be first understood, in order to properly understand what happens at flesh death.

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation - huh?:
What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):

a) Jesus Clearly Taught UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of torment, having vision, speech,
feeling, and remembering everything" (Luk 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":

b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:

b1) Jesus, Just Before HIS Death, Clearly Said [to the repentant thief] "Today
thou Shalt BE WITH ME In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:

Bit of confusion in the above. To the symbolic 'Abraham's bosom' is where those in Christ still... go to in the heavenly dimension at flesh death. It is in Paradise, even as the abode of the wicked (hell) also is in Paradise, just in a place of separation. Paradise is the Heavenly dimension. (See Galatians 5 about those in Christ and our spiritual father Abraham. Paul said those in Christ are "children of Abraham", and inherit with faithful Abraham.

b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:

That is Jesus revealing that Eccl.12:5-7 is actually true. Our 'spirit' is NOT waiting it out in a casket in a grave in the backyard.

OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [living soul that departs] to thy fathers in peace;​

thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​

​

"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man,​

and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons Isaac and​

Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son​

of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;" (Genesis 25:8-9)​

​

"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people,​

being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him." (Genesis 35:29)​

That above is Scripture where you are WRONGLY APPLYING YOUR FLESHY THINKING to a matter of the Heavenly. Those Scriptures are expressions for BURIAL. To be joined with one's fathers at flesh death is about being BURIED among one's dead ancestors! And it's actually about the flesh being buried, as our spirit with soul goes back to God and does not sleep in a graveyard. Many of you folks are so... superstitious, almost like old pagans. I'd prefer you understand these things per God's Word before... you depart at death of your flesh. But you first must understand when God's Word is giving an expression, or allegory, analogy, etc. Recall what Apostle Paul said, to be absent from the body means to be present with Christ (2 Corinthians 5). Just in that, Paul is revealing the two separate dimensions of existence per God's Word, i.e., this earthly material dimension of matter vs. the Heavenly dimension of Spirit.

 

[TheHC]

I just had a person ask me this Grace, perhaps this will help in defining it:
Sure, the Bible does in fact define what death is. As you know God forewarned Adam and Eve that if they ate of the fruit of one tree in the garden they would die.
(Genesis 2:16, 17) . . .God also gave this command to the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will certainly die.”
God defined that to Adam when he sinned:
(Genesis 3:19) 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”
Later on, He further defined it:
(Psalm 146:4) 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6) . . .For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

It might be noted as well, that both animals and humans suffer the same death:
(Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20) . . .there is an outcome for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust.

Regarding A&E and death, what we also should consider is what God did not say. Respecting the eating of that tree’s fruit, God said, “….in the day you eat from it, you will positively die.”
That’s it. No comment about, ‘if you do, you’ll be tormented forever (or whatever).’

Don’t you think that would be quite important?!

Dying must have been something they had seen. It was: they had observed the animals dying. And that’s what death is. The opposite of life. If there was anything more coming, then God was willfully withholding Important facts! Very important.

And another thing…. God said “the day (Yom)…., you will die.”

Adam was 930 yrs.old at his death.

So the definition of the Hebrew Yom in Genesis isn’t constrained to a literal 24 hours. The Creative days can mean an undefined, extended length of time.

Furthermore, regarding the Witch of Endor & ‘Samuel’…..it was a demon impostering Samuel; It said Saul would be with him tomorrow. But Saul was wicked, and Samuel was righteous. They wouldn’t be together! Not according to Christendom’s doctrines.

I’m surprised that @GRACE ambassador didnt notice that, since she quoted the account.

Enjoyed your post.
Take care, my cousin.

 

[MA2444]

Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20

Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
9 Live happily with the woman you love through all the meaningless days of life that God has given you under the sun. The wife God gives you is your reward for all your earthly toil.
10 Whatever you do, do well. For when you go to the grave,[b] there will be no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom.../NLT

I think the NLT version is a little bit ,ore clear on it's meaning than what you posted. It's quite different actually. There is no planning or wisdom or knowledge because the soul and spirit has left the body so they do othing know nothing and plan nothing because the body is no longer animated by the spirit & soul.

The Lord is God of the living not of the dead. In other words, their consciousness is alive after the seperation (death) of the body But the people are still alive. Either in torment awaiting judgment or with the Lord.

 

[RedFan]

There is no planning or wisdom or knowledge because the soul and spirit has left the body so they do othing know nothing and plan nothing because the body is no longer animated by the spirit & soul.

The Lord is God of the living not of the dead. In other words, their consciousness is alive after the seperation (death) of the body But the people are still alive. Either in torment awaiting judgment or with the Lord.

The soul and spirit, after leaving the body, can "know nothing?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

How about knowledge of, say, being in "torment?" (Yup, the same "torment" you say some people are experiencing while awaiting judgment.)

 

[MA2444]

The soul and spirit, after leaving the body, can "know nothing?" That doesn't make much sense to me.

How about knowledge of, say, being in "torment?" (Yup, the same "torment" you say some people are experiencing while awaiting judgment.)

Maybe I worded it poorly?

The soul & spirit, after leaving the body are conscious and alive whether they are in Hell, awaiting Judgment (but they have no wisdom left and can make no plans since they are awaiting trial with out Bond.) The body is dead after the soul & spirit leave it.

I'm sure those awaiting trial experience torment.