... Conscience, emotions, heart, mind...

[Helen]

Firstly I never have any idea on which Forum Board to post a thread!! They have too many to choose from! Hope this is right? :)

I am still trying to work this out...open to more thoughts or 'opinions'.

The other day when writing something, I wrote the word 'conscience' after posting, I sat wondering what IS the conscience...where is the conscience...and what does it really DO?

I have always thought of it as being ( especially to the unsaved who don't hear God's voice) a ‘prompt’ of God for us to make the right choice. But then I see scripture mentioning a 'Good or Evil conscience!!'


Romans 2:15 - "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"

Hebrews 10:22 - "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

So, If the conscience is the 'inner prompter', how can we have an evil one?

1 Timothy 1:5 - "Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."

1 Timothy 1:19 - "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck."

I do remember Watchman Nee teaching on these things...( not that I always understood it all)
*Our spirit is composed of three parts:- *conscience, *fellowship, and *intuition.
It seems the *the conscience part...is for us to discern right from wrong, to justify or to condemn.
In Romans 9:1 Paul talks of 'his conscience baring witness in the Holy Sprit.'
I believe that speaks of our conscience being a part of our spirit ...right?
*The Fellowship part in our spirit is for us to connect to God and to commune with Him.
*The Intuition part as I see it, means to have directive sense in our spirit, regardless of reason. 1 Corinthians 2:11 shows that our spirit can know what our soul cannot!! " For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

Our soul knows by reason or by circumstance, but our spirit can perceive without these. This is "spiritual intuition." ( Some seem to have more, and some seem to have much less..not sure why!

*The soul is also is three parts. The main one, the mind, is for thinking, considering, knowing , and remembering. All our emotional feelings, positive or negative, are in the mind part of our soul.
*The will is also a part of the soul. It is the part where we have our purposes and choices and make decisions . When we 'consider or reason', we are using *the mind. When we make a decision to do a certain thing, *the will is in operation.
When I feel happy or sorrowful, I am in *The Emotions.
The mind, the emotion, and the will are the three parts of the soul.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 " May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." .....speaks that we are a tripartite being, made up of the spirit, the soul, and the body.
The heart as I see it, can't be a separate part in addition to the spirit and the soul.
I think *The heart is made up of the first part of the spirit ( = conscience + mind + will + emotions.)

I am a long way from feeling that I understand it all, or how they all work together.

 

[amadeus]

@"ByGrace"

I also wouldn't pretend to understand all of the details that you wrote above nor the meanings [with good intentions] of others who have wrote about what we are. I have studied some of them in the past, but much of it has faded away. What did catch my eye [my heart?] was your initial mention of the word, conscience. It brought to mind a scripture, which I looked up and posted below:

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

I would guess that early on in our flesh alone our conscience is not really an evil thing. It will prick our heart to let us know that what we have done or what we are considering doing may be a hurtful thing to ourselves or to others. People who want to do evil things initially may need to sear their conscience with a hot iron so that they are not spending periods of time suffering in their own guilt, wishing they had not chosen to do what they did. Maybe this is the direction a hardened sinner or criminal takes ignoring the pain of others and his own anguish over what he has done. In time he may reach the place where he scarcely notices those things that bothered him when he was young and new to sin and/or crime.

Think about a person who begins to work outside with his hands. At the beginning his hands are tender and too much work too fast without protection, such as gloves will quickly result in painful blisters. Eventually, however, if he continues at the work on a regular daily basis, callouses will form as a protective covering for the tender flesh beneath. The callouses insulate his hands against the pain and suffering of his earlier work days. Perhaps a seared conscience is like this.

If and when a person receives the Holy Ghost within, the conscience can be reformed, renewed, resensitized to God's Way of reacting to things. This is the work of the Holy Ghost in us, but the Holy Ghost needs raw materials to really reform us and make like God. This is where eating the flesh of Jesus comes into play. We read the Bible or hear someone read it and then the Holy Ghost in us goes to work on it to quicken it [bring it to Life in us]. Eventually, if the Holy Ghost is not quenched, the person will move from saved unclean beast to saved clean beast and finally to saved person. The saved person will eventually be able to do what God told Moses he could not do:

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. " Exodus 33:20

We like Moses and like apostle Paul started out with the as "through a glass darkly", but now because of Jesus a Way is open which was closed because of the sin of Adam and Eve.

What more do we need to know about ourselves? Can the Holy Ghost if allowed to lead us show us all that we really need to see and understand?

 

[pia]

Our soul knows by reason or by circumstance, but our spirit can perceive without these. This is "spiritual intuition." ( Some seem to have more, and some seem to have much less..not sure why

I have no idea about our spirit having three parts, but I too was taught by a Pastor, that our soul is the will, our intelligence and our emotions. A conscience seems to me to be developed while we are children, a small child doesn't know something is wrong, unless told so...As we get older we also use our intelligence and emotions to extrapolate on previous experiences and how other people react to us, and we keep changing and hopefully growing.
It's a jolly good question.
I too have no clue where to post things, and I have noticed that the posts that gets lots of 'traffic' are usually the ones where people can argue over things, so I'm not all that keen on posting, I have tried as you know, as have you.
Peace Pia

 

[Helen]

What more do we need to know about ourselves? Can the Holy Ghost if allowed to lead us show us all that we really need to see and understand?

Amen..very good post John. 'tis indeed a great mystery.
I can see how the conscience over time can get hardened when not yielded to...
Do you think that it is the voice of God to us through life? And then once we have the Holy Spirit ( or He has us) ..it is His voice we harken to and not the consciense so much?

In the little bit of your post that I quoted above here...are you gently saying- " Don't bother your head with things that you don't understand?"

I did think twice before posting it. But it teased at me for quite a while..so then I went ahead and posted it! :)

 

[Helen]

@pia Thanks Pia...it's a bit of a heavy subject isn't it! :)

If you get any more insight on it, let me know. haha!!

 

[amadeus]

Amen..very good post John. 'tis indeed a great mystery.
I can see how the conscience over time can get hardened when not yielded to...
Do you think that it is the voice of God to us through life? And then once we have the Holy Spirit ( or He has us) ..it is His voice we harken to and not the consciense so much?

I believe that every person born of woman has a little light, which if followed will lead him/her to the greater Light, which most certainly is Jesus and Light. The little light is just enough of a vision to realize that there really is more if the person comes to God and pursues it. The following verse is not talking about people who know God or people who are already born again:

"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. " John 1:9

In the little bit of your post that I quoted above here...are you gently saying- " Don't bother your head with things that you don't understand?"

I might say that to myself, but to others I would be more careful unless I really knew what God intended for them, which usually, I don't. Some people may need to know all of those little things in order to follow God fully. Some people, on the other hand, couldn't understand those things if they were to try. The question always should be, "What does God require that we know?" The answer is not exactly the same for everyone. We are to be different parts of the Body of Christ with different functions. But, if it is not part of your toolkit, then why get into it too deeply?

I did think twice before posting it. But it teased at me for quite a while..so then I went ahead and posted it! :)

Don't beat yourself over the head about it. In any case, sometimes we really do understand all of those details even if we could not explain them to someone else.

You don't have to be a mechanic to be able to drive a car. But... when you're alone on the highway and your car breaks down, God may well give you the necessary knowledge to fix it that one time.

 

[pia]

@pia Thanks Pia...it's a bit of a heavy subject isn't it! :)

If you get any more insight on it, let me know. haha!!

Will do :)

 

[twinc]

Will do :)

the great misunderstanding arises because it is not grasped exactly where soul, spirit, heart, mind are located - twinc

 

[DPMartin]

Firstly I never have any idea on which Forum Board to post a thread!! They have too many to choose from! Hope this is right? :)

I am still trying to work this out...open to more thoughts or 'opinions'.

The other day when writing something, I wrote the word 'conscience' after posting, I sat wondering what IS the conscience...where is the conscience...and what does it really DO?

I have always thought of it as being ( especially to the unsaved who don't hear God's voice) a ‘prompt’ of God for us to make the right choice. But then I see scripture mentioning a 'Good or Evil conscience!!'


Romans 2:15 - "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another"

Hebrews 10:22 - "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water."

So, If the conscience is the 'inner prompter', how can we have an evil one?

1 Timothy 1:5 - "Now the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned."

1 Timothy 1:19 - "Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck."

I do remember Watchman Nee teaching on these things...( not that I always understood it all)
*Our spirit is composed of three parts:- *conscience, *fellowship, and *intuition.
It seems the *the conscience part...is for us to discern right from wrong, to justify or to condemn.
In Romans 9:1 Paul talks of 'his conscience baring witness in the Holy Sprit.'
I believe that speaks of our conscience being a part of our spirit ...right?
*The Fellowship part in our spirit is for us to connect to God and to commune with Him.
*The Intuition part as I see it, means to have directive sense in our spirit, regardless of reason. 1 Corinthians 2:11 shows that our spirit can know what our soul cannot!! " For what person knows a man’s thoughts except the spirit of the man which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God."

Our soul knows by reason or by circumstance, but our spirit can perceive without these. This is "spiritual intuition." ( Some seem to have more, and some seem to have much less..not sure why!

*The soul is also is three parts. The main one, the mind, is for thinking, considering, knowing , and remembering. All our emotional feelings, positive or negative, are in the mind part of our soul.
*The will is also a part of the soul. It is the part where we have our purposes and choices and make decisions . When we 'consider or reason', we are using *the mind. When we make a decision to do a certain thing, *the will is in operation.
When I feel happy or sorrowful, I am in *The Emotions.
The mind, the emotion, and the will are the three parts of the soul.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 " May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." .....speaks that we are a tripartite being, made up of the spirit, the soul, and the body.
The heart as I see it, can't be a separate part in addition to the spirit and the soul.
I think *The heart is made up of the first part of the spirit ( = conscience + mind + will + emotions.)

I am a long way from feeling that I understand it all, or how they all work together.

excellent subject their bygrace

but na, its not an inner prompter, it is as the man Paul said, it is the witness. but witness to what?

consider when the Lord their God had Israel out in the desert, and He said to Moses something to the effect that He would prove the people when they would go and gather the manna from heaven. Whether they heed His instructions or not, but God sees the hearts of all men. therefore, what does God have to prove to Himself that He already knows?

see what I'm saying here? if you know the color of your car is blue, you don't have to prove to yourself, what you can see is true.

hence then what does God mean by this? consider, when one is judged standing before the Almighty thy conscience shall be thy witness that every thing is true. of which one will not be able to deny.

thy fruits may be thy witness before others, in what you might be, but thy conscience is thy witness of you unto yourself.

ok so I read KJV ;)

 

[Helen]

@DPMartin ..Me too...I am a dyed in the wool KJV. If I read any other, I automatically flip it in my mind back to KJV. Ha! So now I don't often do it (read others..but I have many different ones)

Good post and simplifies things...thanks.
As I read the word I often wonder if heart and conscience are one and the same.
But then the bible uses both word.
Many years ago I did a study, and if my memory is correct...root of heart means "kidneys" as in the filter system. ( but don't quote me on that... )

I liked your 'conscience being witness Godward', and 'fruit being the witness man-ward.'
Deut- "at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
We see in scripture that we are called to be 'a witness to the Lord'..
In Rev 11 it mentions the witnesses... I believe one day ( probably sooner rather than later) we will be called upon to be those witnesses. The body of a second witness unto who and all that l Jesus is, and all He has done.
God is obviously His witness in heaven...and we are His witness upon the earth.
" In the mouth of two witnesses..."

 

[twinc]

@DPMartin ..Me too...I am a dyed in the wool KJV. If I read any other, I automatically flip it in my mind back to KJV. Ha! So now I don't often do it (read others..but I have many different ones)

Good post and simplifies things...thanks.
As I read the word I often wonder if heart and conscience are one and the same.
But then the bible uses both word.
Many years ago I did a study, and if my memory is correct...root of heart means "kidneys" as in the filter system. ( but don't quote me on that... )

I liked your 'conscience being witness Godward', and 'fruit being the witness man-ward.'
Deut- "at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established."
We see in scripture that we are called to be 'a witness to the Lord'..
In Rev 11 it mentions the witnesses... I believe one day ( probably sooner rather than later) we will be called upon to be those witnesses. The body of a second witness unto who and all that l Jesus is, and all He has done.
God is obviously His witness in heaven...and we are His witness upon the earth.
" In the mouth of two witnesses..."


would you read or recommend a JW Bible - if not why not - so how would you recommend a Catholic read KJV - twinc