Coronavirus spreading

[Renniks]

Yes. Medicare's overhead is about 2%, whereas private insurance runs at over 12%.


Can't say that I have.


Other countries pay less and get better outcomes. I'm not willing to ignore that just because some people don't like government.


I never said they shouldn't. I just pointed out how weird it is to see some people willingly paying more for health care for profit.

Where do you think the money for healthcare is coming from? There's no such thing as free healthcare.
The average Canadian family pay about $12,000 for public health care through taxes per year – and that’s nearly 70 per cent higher than when the data was first made available in 1997.

 

[ScottA]

The influenza virus is not the same virus as the corona virus. They're not different strains of one another. You can't just say "they're both viruses" and try and compare them or treat them the same.

I didn't call them both viruses...medical science did. I agree with medical science. You, apparently, don't agree with me and medical science.

 

[Justadude]

Where do you think the money for healthcare is coming from? There's no such thing as free healthcare.

I never said anything about health care being free.

The average Canadian family pay about $12,000 for public health care through taxes per year – and that’s nearly 70 per cent higher than when the data was first made available in 1997.

Okay?

 

[Justadude]

I didn't call them both viruses...medical science did. I agree with medical science. You, apparently, don't agree with me and medical science.

I think our discussion has gone off the rails and you're not making sense. I never said the influenza virus and the corona virus weren't both viruses, so I really don't know what your point is.

 

[Renniks]

I never said anything about health care being free.


Okay?

So, it's just a shell game. You aren't really paying any less, it's just not visible because it's coming out of your paycheck, and you don't get the bill.
In addition, we should learn from history: By increasing the paperwork and regulations imposed on doctors, government initiatives crippled private practice, forcing doctors to go work for hospitals.
History has demonstrated, time and again, that the private sector is the most efficient producer. When government enters the mix, it disrupts market forces, leading to inefficient outcomes like monopolies and lack of prevention.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The sky is not falling.
It's a virus.
It happens every year.
It's a different strain every year.
Some years are worse than others.
These annual epidemics are estimated to result in about 290 000 to 650 000 deaths every year.
You want to panic, then panic.

We've had "plagues" since the middle ages. So when Revelation says "plagues", just ignore it. It serves no purpose other than to FALSELY alarm the masses. Nothing will come of ANY dire predictions, so go back to sleep!

Bobby Jo

 

[Justadude]

So, it's just a shell game. You aren't really paying any less, it's just not visible because it's coming out of your paycheck, and you don't get the bill.

That's not true when comparing the US for-profit system with nationalized systems. With nationalized systems, the costs are less and the outcomes are better.

U.S. pays more for health care with worse population health outcomes

"In 2016, the U.S. spent nearly twice as much on health care as other high-income countries, yet had poorer population health outcomes."

In addition, we should learn from history: By increasing the paperwork and regulations imposed on doctors, government initiatives crippled private practice, forcing doctors to go work for hospitals.

As the article linked above describes, high physician pay is one of the factors behind our higher costs.

History has demonstrated, time and again, that the private sector is the most efficient producer. When government enters the mix, it disrupts market forces, leading to inefficient outcomes like monopolies and lack of prevention.

That link actually negates your argument. It argues that the main reason behind US having higher costs is administrative expenses, but as I said earlier, gov't run systems such as Medicare have significantly lower administrative costs. Medicare's is around 2%, whereas private for-profit companies' are over 12%.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The Coronavirus is bad, but I don't believe it's the apocalypse.

One must consider what any "belief" informational basis consists of. Is it intuition, suspicion, a compilation of circumstances, or direct evidence? -- Or as asserted in the movie "Crimson Tide": personal intuition, gut feelings, hairs on the back of your neck, little devils or angels sitting on your shoulder ...

ALL information must be critically evaluated against other information, -- including whether we ARE or ARE NOT presently in the Tribulation. And if one lacks that basis, then they lack that perspective. Perhaps one should discover what Bible Prophecy has to say on the subject, before drawing any conclusion.

Or so I might suggest,
Bobby Jo

 

[Giuliano]

Healthcare government funding is not as bad as you think, in Australia we get into the doctor for just about free in the time of need, sometimes there may be a 10 dollar fee, but think I have only had to pay that once, but it's affordable, and flu shots are anything from free to under 20 bucks, depending on age I think.

You might argue taxes pay for it, but you don't get ripped out of your pocket when you need it. And if you are low income the first $18,200 of income is not taxable anyway.

The way I see it, it's better than a lot of people dropping dead

I wonder why some Americans are so opposed to health care systems like the Australian one. Why do they like to make private insurance companies rich? Why do they trust private health care providers so much? My best guess is how poorly our government has handled things like the government run Veterans health care system. Our Congress does a lousy job of oversight -- and that's been true no matter which party was in power in Congress.

Why such horrible oversight? That goes back to how elections are funded. Our politicians don't want to step on too many corporate toes if it would mean campaign donations might go down. I think both Democrats and Republicans are guilty. It's our system. Congress will never do its proper oversight job as long as they're raking in cash from corporations and rich people who don't live in their districts.

Then we have that Supreme Court decision that said corporations are entitled to spend as much money as they want on campaign ads since they are "persons". Oh, I get it how corporations are treated like "persons" for legal reasons; but the idea that a corporation has "free speech" rights is laughable to me. And get this, our beloved and wise Supreme Court (composed of so many Catholics, by the way) sees corporations as persons with rights -- but they can't find a way to say fetuses are persons with rights.

 

[Giuliano]

Now don't make me quote the verse about God raising up kings (Daniel 2:21). Then someone will call God a liar or a hypocrite, and someone will have to reconcile all scripture.

I agree about reconciling all scriputure, so I think we need to be cautious when saying "all" kings have God's approval. When rulers fail to operate on behalf of their people as they should, God does not approve. They may have had God's approval at first but lost it.

I'd say the Pharoahs had God's approval at first. When Joseph was around, he surely did. But look what happened. The new Pharaoh instituted a policy of infanticide and genocide. He was not using his God-given authority as a "terror to evil." He was using to create evil. Then along came Moses asking for religious freedom. That's what he asked for at first. Pharaoh wouldn't permit it. He lost his God-given right to rule.

Look too at how the Romans crucified an innocent man with a sham politicized trial. Yes, I'd say the Roman Emperors had a God-given right to rule once; but then they started declaring themselves gods, infringing on religious freedom, and corrupting justice the way Pilate did.

We also need to realize that it wasn't God's plan for Israel to have a king; but when they wanted one, God said okay.

 

[Josho]

I wonder why some Americans are so opposed to health care systems like the Australian one. Why do they like to make private insurance companies rich? Why do they trust private health care providers so much? My best guess is how poorly our government has handled things like the government run Veterans health care system. Our Congress does a lousy job of oversight -- and that's been true no matter which party was in power in Congress.

Why such horrible oversight? That goes back to how elections are funded. Our politicians don't want to step on too many corporate toes if it would mean campaign donations might go down. I think both Democrats and Republicans are guilty. It's our system. Congress will never do its proper oversight job as long as they're raking in cash from corporations and rich people who don't live in their districts.

Then we have that Supreme Court decision that said corporations are entitled to spend as much money as they want on campaign ads since they are "persons". Oh, I get it how corporations are treated like "persons" for legal reasons; but the idea that a corporation has "free speech" rights is laughable to me. And get this, our beloved and wise Supreme Court (composed of so many Catholics, by the way) sees corporations as persons with rights -- but they can't find a way to say fetuses are persons with rights.

Well in everything, the big guys are the ones that are ridiculously rich, the top jobs in USA have a lot of the wealthiest people in the world and then the ordinary American is struggling hard over there. So in your private health insurance companies, the employees of those in insurance companies might be getting paid good or maybe not compared to other Americans, but the guys at the top are very very rich.

But over there it just seems if someone cannot afford to pay and they get very sick and can't recover, they die. It's serious stuff.

There's no reason why the American government cannot have a health care system like Australia, there are a lot more taxpayers in the USA, it just seems someone should be getting taxed more, like the big CEOs, or the big name basketballers that get paid way too much, or the Hollywood actors or something, or maybe the US government just needs to stop spending so much in other areas.

This is going off topic now, but a high paid sports star in Australia would earn around a million a year and that's only a few of them, an ordinary football game only cost like $30 for a ticket, top media personalities might make a couple of million, Qantas CEO is another story though, he makes 25 million or whatever it is, way too much.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Why do they trust private health care providers so much? ...

Because we trust GOVERNMENT so little.


It's what makes the United States Nation GREAT! -- Competition, independent decision making based upon each persons circumstances, -- basically the FREEDOM to make our own decisions.

Yeah, not to many people want to be responsible for themselves, -- they'd rather have a"nanny" state make all their decisions. -- Which is why people can move to other countries! Isn't it WONDERFUL?!?

Bobby Jo

 

[Giuliano]

Because we trust GOVERNMENT so little.

I see the point; and with Trump as President, I suppose we'll trust it even less in the future.

It's what makes the United States Nation GREAT! -- Competition, independent decision making based upon each persons circumstances, -- basically the FREEDOM to make our own decisions.

Yeah, not to many people want to be responsible for themselves, -- they'd rather have a"nanny" state make all their decisions. -- Which is why people can move to other countries! Isn't it WONDERFUL?!?

Do you think what Trump is doing will work? Can he wreck the government so much that everyone gives up wanting anything from it?

 

[Bobby Jo]

I see the point; and with Trump as President, I suppose we'll trust it even less in the future.
...

Don't you think it's interesting that YOU apparently think OBAMA was WONDERFUL, and that TRUMP is TERRIBLE, -- which is pretty much the OPPOSITE of how GOD views the individuals and events?

But what does GOD know?!?
Bobby Jo

 

[Yehren]

Don't you think it's interesting that YOU apparently think OBAMA was WONDERFUL, and that TRUMP is TERRIBLE, -- which is pretty much the OPPOSITE of how GOD views the individuals and events?

Fortunately, you don't speak for God. Fortunate, because you seem to know nothing at all about His will.

But what does GOD know?!?

He knows who is falsely trying to make their wishes, His will. God is not mocked. Before it's too late, stop it.

 

[Yehren]

Justadude said: ↑
For sure there are more cases of influenza, but the coronavirus is as much as 30x more deadly. Plus, it's just now starting to spread in the US, and unlike with influenza, there are no vaccines at all for coronavirus. The State of Washington has declared a state of emergency due to the outbreak.

What I can't figure out is why it seems to be important for Christians to downplay the situation. Is it merely a Trump thing, or is there something else going on?

Maybe it's a reaction against all the media hype.

Lying about facts isn't "a reaction against all the media hype." It's just lying about the facts. What's got Trump in a panic, is that this isn't something that's going to go away if he tells the right number of lies. Even if every one of his followers believe him, it won't change things at all.

 

[Giuliano]

Don't you think it's interesting that YOU apparently think OBAMA was WONDERFUL, and that TRUMP is TERRIBLE, -- which is pretty much the OPPOSITE of how GOD views the individuals and events?

But what does GOD know?!?
Bobby Jo

Could you give me God's phone number? That way I could know as much as you about what He thinks.

PS I didn't vote for Obama either time he ran.

 

[Yehren]

6 ways the Trump administration has already botched responding to the coronavirus

1. Sick and healthy passengers from a quarantined cruise ship were sent on the same flight home.

2. Despite telling Americans to get tested for the virus, US health agencies are behind the eight-ball with testing lagging behind.

3. A coronavirus patient in California wasn't tested for days.

4. CDC testing has been limited, so the full extent of the virus stateside is hard to pin down.

5. On top of all that, Trump has made funding cuts to the CDC over the past two years.
In 2018, the CDC axed 80% of its capabilities to combat disease outbreaks due to a funding depletion while the White House jettisoned a position on the National Security Council specifically for respond to a global pandemic. In the latest budget, the White House sought to cut CDC's budget by 16%.

6. A US patient infected with the coronavirus was accidentally released from the hospital after initial tests failed to pick up symptoms.

It's not all Trump's fault; part of this is just the consequences of republican policy generally. It's just one of many ways that preparedness has been abandoned in the search for bigger tax cuts. And now we'll pay the price. Let's hope it's not as bad as it might be.

 

[Renniks]

Lying about facts isn't "a reaction against all the media hype." It's just lying about the facts. What's got Trump in a panic, is that this isn't something that's going to go away if he tells the right number of lies. Even if every one of his followers believe him, it won't change things at all.

I never mentioned Trump. Why is everything about Trump? I believe that the media is blowing this way out of proportion.

 

[Renniks]

6 ways the Trump administration has already botched responding to the coronavirus

1. Sick and healthy passengers from a quarantined cruise ship were sent on the same flight home.

2. Despite telling Americans to get tested for the virus, US health agencies are behind the eight-ball with testing lagging behind.

3. A coronavirus patient in California wasn't tested for days.

4. CDC testing has been limited, so the full extent of the virus stateside is hard to pin down.

5. On top of all that, Trump has made funding cuts to the CDC over the past two years.
In 2018, the CDC axed 80% of its capabilities to combat disease outbreaks due to a funding depletion while the White House jettisoned a position on the National Security Council specifically for respond to a global pandemic. In the latest budget, the White House sought to cut CDC's budget by 16%.

6. A US patient infected with the coronavirus was accidentally released from the hospital after initial tests failed to pick up symptoms.

It's not all Trump's fault; part of this is just the consequences of republican policy generally. It's just one of many ways that preparedness has been abandoned in the search for bigger tax cuts. And now we'll pay the price. Let's hope it's not as bad as it might be.

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!