Couple Ordered To Stop Holding Bible Study In Their Home

[Polar]

From Foxnews:COUPLE ORDERED TO STOP HOLDING BIBLE STUDY AT HOME WITHOUT PERMITThursday, May 28, 2009 Print ShareThisPastor David Jones and his wife Mary have been told that they cannot invite friends to their San Diego, Calif. home for a bible study — unless they are willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars to San Diego County."On Good Friday we had an employee from San Diego County come to our house, and inform us that the bible study that we were having was a religious assembly, and in violation of the code in the county." David Jones told FOX News."We told them this is not really a religious assembly — this is just a bible study with friends. We have a meal, we pray, that was all," Jones said.A few days later, the couple received a written warning that cited "unlawful use of land," ordering them to either "stop religious assembly or apply for a major use permit," the couple's attorney Dean Broyles told San Diego news station 10News.But the major use permit could cost the Jones' thousands of dollars just to have a few friends over.For David and Mary Jones, it's about more than a question of money."The government may not prohibit the free exercise of religion," Broyles told FOX News. "I believe that our Founding Fathers would roll over in their grave if they saw that here in the year 2009, a pastor and his wife are being told that they cannot hold a simple bible study in their own home.""The implications are great because it’s not only us that’s involved," Mary Jones said. "There are thousands and thousands of bible studies that are held all across the country. What we’re interested in is setting a precedent here — before it goes any further — and that we have it settled for the future."The couple is planning to dispute the county's order this week.If San Diego County refuses to allow the pastor and his wife to continue gathering without acquiring a permit, they will consider a lawsuit in federal court.

 

[Rank Stranger]

This is simply outrageous in every regard. And to top it all off, San Diego County does not have a legal leg to stand on. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled long ago (citation not included due to forgetfulness by this OF) that the First Amendment was incorporated to the individual states by means of the Fourteenth Amendment's due process clause. That means that all state governments, like the Federal government, are expressly prohibited from making any law that establishes any religion or that prohibits the free exercise thereof. Add in free speech and you have a winning hand hand in any court (with the possible exception of the San Diego Superior Court, that is).Rank Stranger

 

[tim_from_pa]

There are those duped enough to believe that this bible study is a zoning issue (e.g. there would be extra cars parked on the block or whatever) rather than a freedom of speech issue.But then again, this is California. I'll bet everything I have that if there were 15 gays meeting like this, nobody would even dare say anything about it, "zoning" or otherwise.Incredible.

 

[Polar]

There are people out there, either out of religious prejudice, or simple overzealousness, that attempt to do things like this.That empowers them and give a legal precedence to build upon.The problems isn't these people, though. The problem is the people that roll over and do not stand up for what is right.When I first got saved in 1980 and was told that eventually Christians would be persecuted in the United States, I rolled my eyes. Behind the Iron Curtain, yes.In Communist China, sure.In the Middle East, of course....but not in America. Not in a nation that tells me I am endowed by my Creator.Not in a nation where those who wrote our Constitution would stop and pray a number of times each day for God's guidance in writing it.Not a nation where the cross is the primary symbol on the headstones of the soldier who died defending us.And certainly not a nation where a new President ends his swearing in with, "So help me God."But a misreading of the Constitution (intentional or otherwise) has put Christianity on dangerous ground. My daughter came home from school three years ago stating that they cannot sing "Silent Night" "Oh, Holy Night" "Away in the Manger" etc. at school anymore because it is "illegal."Our city park, for the first time in 100 years is not able to put up a Nativity scene because someone may find it "offensive" or feel "excluded."Our high school can no longer give an invocation before its graduation ceremony under threat of the ACLU.And now Christians are being framed as the "haters" and "oppressors" because of opposition to abortion and gay marraige.This is the beginning of the criminalization of Christianity. Things are only going to get worse, and soon.And the reason for this success in curtailing Christian influence?Lack of action in the Christian community. 70-plus percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians, but they are largely silent in many of these matters.Instead they are counting on 'someone else' to do something.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Lack of action in the Christian community. 70-plus percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians, but they are largely silent in many of these matters.Instead they are counting on 'someone else' to do something.

What you said reminds me of many good Germans who refused to denounce Hitler -- and he used the patriotic unity idea to get where he was, so nobody wanted to say anything against him. He was a prototype of Antichrist and fell. That's our only hope in this world. The USA as we know it will go down the tubes because many "good" Christians don't want to offend. However, it's something to look forward to Christ's return to straighten out this mess. But in the meantime, I'm holding my ground and will convince those who want us to accept sin that the bible clearly denounces their sin. If they want to argue theology with me, then they will loose. This is why I ask the question, "why not just admit you're against the bible?"

 

[gumby]

I think this is wrong, people should be allowed to worship anyway they please especially in the privacy of there own homes.

 

[Polar]

What you said reminds me of many good Germans who refused to denounce Hitler -- and he used the patriotic unity idea to get where he was, so nobody wanted to say anything against him. He was a prototype of Antichrist and fell. That's our only hope in this world. The USA as we know it will go down the tubes because many "good" Christians don't want to offend.

-- I am agreement with you.It reminds me of the words spoke by Pastor Martin Niemoller:First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a communist;Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a socialist;Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a trade unionist;Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- because I was not a Jew;Then they came for me-- and there was no one left to speak out for me.(There are variations of this quote used to promote a specific group, etc. but I believe this is the actual quote.)

 

[Siskim]

What happened at that home seems shocking but I'm not surprised.It seems to be coming and fast! I think it will be upon us before we even realize it! The wheels seem to be turning fast, which meansour opportunities are coming fast to really make a stand, a standthat in the past we have neglected or passed by because we werent':communist, or socialist, or unionist. Now the opportunities are going to be forced "have to's" We're goingto have to choose to either make a stand for God or to deny him; thetime is passing that we will be able to stay on the fence. In all this,it does appear that God is not only shaking the ungodly and the lostbut is also setting the stage to purify the church so that at his comingit will be white and spotless. It's as if these thing have need to be; as if they are coming regardless...if we can prolong the inevitable. Do you people remeber hearing long agothat the time would come when we'd "have to" have faith to make it in thisworld? These days I remember that often. If we are people of God, of Faith,then I think we are going to either learn to live by faith for real or fallback. There's no denying that it's all a little apprehensive and unsettling, but...it seems to me that these things must be, and there's no use in be fretfulor scared or trying to run and hide and stockpile supplies, but when the timescome to stand, we may as well not worry and go crazy, but just take our standand be and do and respond in all things as we have learned is our calling to do.I think that's what God wants us to do and I think no matter what happens, we are to just keep absolute faith in him, trust him, and be prepared forhis will, whatever it is. Siskim

 

[Polar]

I just read today where the city is backing off with it's threat.They are saying now it was never about 'religious assembly' but rather 'traffic issues.'Although they did admit that hearing from people as far away as New Zealand about it did help them reach clarity. I am pleased that this family stood their ground and that others stood with them.

 

[Jilli]

I am utterly gobsmacked!!! I wonder when this sort of prohibition will get to NZ? I guess the beginning of the end...

 

[Polar]

I am sure we haven't seen anything yet.I have been slowing watching the criminalization of Christianity over the last 20 years.I have a feeling that in the not-too-distant future those efforts will begin to snowball.

 

[tim_from_pa]

I am sure we haven't seen anything yet.I have been slowing watching the criminalization of Christianity over the last 20 years.I have a feeling that in the not-too-distant future those efforts will begin to snowball.

What you just said paraphrases something similar I said on these forums several times, except the way I said it was that: "I've seen a radical change in thinking in the last 15 years or so, and especially since 911." It's as if I do not even know America any longer. You say something today (I'm in the baby boomer generation) and the folks today look at you like you are from another planet. We way we used to think, joke and have fun are all together different today (and maybe our ways are considered offensive today). And I'm only 50 years old and feel like I'm talking like an old man already.

 

[musicworld]

I feel pity for the people who have brought this preposterous charge against Mr & Mrs Jones, in all trueness it’s the San Diego County who need the Bible studies."Satan just gets everywhere".