Creation Of Earth

[TexUs]

I can and I have, several times now but your eyes are unable to see it and your ears are unable to hear it so why continue throwing pearls.

It matters to you because you are FORCING it to matter because it must fit your THEORY. You are not letting fact form your theory, you are letting theory form your facts.

Start from a neutral position. Again, the FACT is, we don't know how old the earth is. We don't even have an idea. Carbon Dating is flawed. The Bible doesn't record the actual age of the earth. We. Don't. Know.
That's what FACT is: We don't know.

The only time this matters is when you form a theory (three earth ages) first, and then try to make the facts fit it, and that never works.

 

[australia]

Thumbs up, veteran.

Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

One such city you think? Check out the dates in the article;

http://www.telegraph...off-Africa.html

Click the right arrow on the photo to zoom in.

 

[TexUs]

Science and religious theology have at least one thing in common. they are both studies which employ far more theory than fact.

Yes, and I think our three earth age friends do a fine job of showcasing this.

 

[Disciple]

You gotta discern for yourself, do you wanna beleive in science or beleive in the true and living God?

 

[TexUs]

You gotta discern for yourself, do you wanna beleive in science or beleive in the true and living God?

Both.

Science is the OBSERVATION of CREATION.

God and Science are not at odds.

The problem is what some people call "Science" is not really science but a "Theory"...
The Big Bang is not "Science". It is a theory.
Evolution is not science, it's theory.

We can use science to draw conclusions and form theories.
Science, cannot prove anything on it's own. It can only observe. As time goes on, and our technology and ability to observe and test improves, sometimes our scientific findings can change.
Spontaneous generation was once scientific law. As far as we could observe at that time, it was true. However, we improved, and learned via later observations that what we once "knew" as "fact"- wasn't true.

Again, it's just observation.
Right now, we know if you drop a ball, it'll hit the floor. We can reproduce this, we can observe this... Therefore, we deduce scientifically that any time you drop a ball, it'll fall.
We also know and can reproduce in space, it does not.
So we can deduce scientifically, that there must be a force present on earth that causes this. We call it gravity.

Maybe our understandings of how gravity works and is formed (all we know is it exists, it's some sort of "law" of the universe that we really don't understand associated with items of mass), will change in the future as our technology advances. Again, nothing science can deduce is fact. It's dependent upon observation.
The very fact we can't observe nor recreate or reproduce the beginnings of this earth limits both 6,000 year and zillion year earth theorists to the theory camp- FOREVER.

 

[Charlie]

name='TexUs' timestamp='1297829543' post='100849'.
God and Science are not at odds.

The problem is what some people call "Science" is not really science but a "Theory"...
The Big Bang is not "Science". It is a theory.
Evolution is not science, it's theory.

We can use science to draw conclusions and form theories.
Science, cannot prove anything on it's own. It can only observe. As time goes on, and our technology and ability to observe and tt improves, sometimes our scientific findings can change.
Spontaneous generation was once scientific law. As far as we could observe at that time, it was true. However, we improved, and learned via later observations that what we once "knew" as "fact"- wasn't true.

Charlie -- I agree and I find the first few chapters of Genesis, up to the time of the flood, to be most interesting.

Chapter One spells out the ''generatons,' or history, of the 'day of the Lord', the time during which the Word of John 1 made all things. God created and the Word who had been God and was part of God. in the beginning, made all that was made. The making covers the first six days then, on the 7th day God rested. All was finished, including the growing things - despite the fact there had been no rain because half the water on earth had been put above the firmament, the heaven, of the second day.

For that reason, at the time of Noah, God had watem, above the heaven, our atmosphere, to rain down on the earth, Gen. 7:11.

Males and females had been made on the sixth day and were gatherers of fruits and nuts, Gen. 1:.29. (Later, it seems, men learned to use some animals and fish for food.)

We are also told 'there was' not a man to till the ground', Gen.2:5. That seems to be why God made the first Adam from the dust of the grouhd and made the garden of Eden, to teach the AdAm how to 'till the ground'.

That, I think, is why scientists have found that, before the time of Noah, there were hunters/gatherers as well as farmers, those who tilled the ground for food, on earth.

I believe direct descendants of Adam and Eve were the 'sons of God' went in unto daughters of men, of the males and females of the sixth day,

God Bless you. Charlie.

 

[KingdomCome]

Hope you don't mind me entering my thoughts:

Gen 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Christ Jesus is the "beginning", so, "In" the beginning... could mean within or inside the beginning.

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Moreover, the Light was not created, it was formed.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

All things were created "in" Christ Jesus.

The Sun, therefore, was created "in" Christ Jesus the Light of the world.

["in"=Gk. en — a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); TDNT - 2:537,233; prep]

KJV Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things consist.

NIV He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

God is Light and Christ Jesus is the Light of the world (Gk. Kosmos).

1Joh 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Christ Jesus, the beginning, is the Light of the world who was the first to come from God the Father of lights. Christ Jesus is the ending, which is to come for those who are yet to believe — the Almighty.

John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Blessings to all...

 

[Julian of York]

I could not read all the input,so someone may have already replied in this manner:
1) The Light spoken of in Genesis was ambient light...that is, non-focused, source-less light. Just Light. God does not require light...it could have only been created for His Creation and creatures. Secondly, this Light was focused and became implanted in the sun and stars when they were created. QUESTION: Where does sunlight come from? Sunlight and starlight are the result of superheated hydrogen and other gases which cause visible AND invisible lightwaves as a result of fission.Surely it is probable that pre-stellar light was fission related hydrogen being superheated and providing light at God's command?And then this fissionable material would be focused and collected into a ball,which is now the light source: the sun and stars. A VERY simple thing for an Omnipotent God. QUESTION: If God is said to dwell in thick darkness (see King Solomon's dedication of the Temple at Jerusalem) and yet is known as that "True Light", doesn't it seem most likely that a source for the ambient light would be a revealing of God Himself through the thick darkness at His command?
2) My explanation is that God did not create a Baby Universe, with infant stars, a baby planet earth,etc. But as He created Adam as an adult, and Eve as an adult, and the fishes,birds, trees, mammals, and even dinosaurs as adults and not eggs or helpless pups, I believe He created the Universe as a mature Universe. QUESTION: If light travels a known distance in one year, the light source is 1 million "light-years" away, how can the Universe only be 6,000 years old? The light would not reach us for another million years!!! However, if God created a mature Universe,and light was created for His Creation and us,His creatures, light would be useless UNLESS IT REACHED THE PLANET EARTH! You may say that light benefits other aliens elsewhere: but we have no proof of that,so that conjecture can be set aside,

Remember that the "pseudo -science" evolution works on the principal "We can explain anything,as long as we leave God out of the picture!" The Bible is exactly opposite,in that all things can be explained with a Supernatural God as Creator.
"For Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory,and honor, and power; for Thou hast created ALL THINGS, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." Revelation 4:11

Julian of York

 

[granpa]

"natural" selection:

In the beginning there was darkness
from darkness God selected and separated light
from light God selected and separated air
from air God selected and separated water
from water God selected and separated land
from land God selected and separated life (tree-like things)

from life God selected and separated small round things
from small round things God selected and separated big round things
from big round things God selected and separated living nephesh (oxygen breathing)
from living nephesh God selected and separated sharks
from sharks God selected and separated (bony) lungfish
from lungfish God selected and separated animals
from animals God selected and separated humans

 

[[email protected]]

The following article on artifically engineering genetic mutations of fruit flies indicates that evolutionary theory cannot possibly account for the development of ANY life form on this planet. (Read the end of the article first.)

http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/01-06-2011/118076-fruit_flies-0/

 

[KingdomCome]

If you all would consider that Christ Jesus is the "beginning", you will find the reality that all things, the whole of creation, including darkness, was created "in" the "Beginning" — Then the sun and the moon and the stars and the earth.

"In the Beginning" ... is not an historical phrase ... Christ Jesus is the "beginning and the ending". All things reside within Him. Therefore, Christ Jesus, the "Light of the world" (world = kosmos in Gk), was in existence (formed) prior to the Creation of all things.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

History pales compared to the reality of our eternal blessings:

Deu 18:
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

When we are raised with Christ there is no time — we begin to seek the things above and not the things of the earth.

Col 3:
1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Blessings

 

[brionne]

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light" but the Sun is created on the 4th day.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day", how can there be morning if the Sun is created on the first day. Almost all people start reading the Bible on Genesis and yet there are already "hard-to-understand" verse in this chapter.

EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

the hebrew scriptures do not say the sun was 'created' on the 4th day.
On the first day the Hebrew word used for “light” is ’ohr, which means general light. But on the fourth “day,” the Hebrew word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means a source of light

on day one, only light could be seen...but not its source. So the sun already existed, but from the earths perspective it could not be seen. This is understandable when you consider that the sun cannot be seen on an overcast day, but we still have light from it.

On day 4, the sun became clearly visible in the sky. So there must have been heavy cloud cover which initially prevented the sun from shining directly onto the earth.


very simple when you examine the original language. English translations do not accurately give us the full picture.

 

[aspen]

EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

Most people? Only a minority of Christians believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old. It was an excusable theory in the early church - they also thought the Earth was flat; but nowadays? Some Christians still do.

 

[Guestman]

Most people? Only a minority of Christians believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old. It was an excusable theory in the early church - they also thought the Earth was flat; but nowadays? Some Christians still do.

The earth is perhaps many billions of years old. Genesis 1:1 says: "In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Thus, the earth was created at the same time as for the rest of the universe, "in the beginning". However, only some 6000 years ago was the earth now completed for the arrival of man. To illustrate: the foundation for a new home is poured, then the framework goes up, followed by the roof, then the wiring, plumbing, etc, till finally the home is now complete, awaiting it's tenants to move in.

After the completion of the earth for enjoyable human habitation over the course of six "creative" days, when it met with God's criteria for being "very good"(Gen 1:31, though he said this after the creation of Adam and Eve), then he formed the first man, Adam (meaning "Earthling Man; Mankind; Humankind; from a root meaning “red”). At Genesis 1:26, God said to his "master worker" (Prov 8:30), who later came to be Jesus Christ: "Let us make man ("man", Hebrew ’a·dham´, without the definite article) in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth.”

Thus, Adam and shortly thereafter Eve, was created at the end of the 6th "creative" day, with each "creative" day being several thousand years long.(Gen 1:26, 27) It came to a close (Gen 1:31), so that we are now in the 7th "creative" day, with it's completion still about a thousand years away. At that time, the earth will have been restored to a paradise (Luke 23:43), as God had originally intended in the Garden of Eden.(Rev 21:3-5) Then God's "rest" toward the earth will have ended.(Gen 2:1, 2) The 7th "creative" day could then be said, as with the previous six, that "there came to be evening and there came to be morning", a seventh day.(Gen 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31)

 

[Charlie]

the hebrew scriptures do not say the sun was 'created' on the 4th day.
On the first day the Hebrew word used for “light” is ’ohr, which means general light. But on the fourth “day,” the Hebrew word changes to ma‧’ohr′, which means a source of light

on day one, only light could be seen...but not its source. So the sun already existed, but from the earths perspective it could not be seen. This is understandable when you consider that the sun cannot be seen on an overcast day, but we still have light from it.

On day 4, the sun became clearly visible in the sky. So there must have been heavy cloud cover which initially prevented the sun from shining directly onto the earth.

very simple when you examine the original language. English translations do not accurately give us the full picture.

Charlie: How could there have been clouds before the flood?

The Word divided the water from the water, on the 2nd day, with the firmament that is the lower heaven, Gen.1:6-8.

That water did not become part of our atmoshere until the windows of heaven were opened, at the time of the flood, Gen. 7:11.

Adam had not seen rain until the time of the flood.

Before that time, there went up a mist from the ground that watered the whole face of the ground, Gen. 2:5-6.

God Bless you. Charlie

 

[tomwebster]

Charlie: How could there have been clouds before the flood?

The Word divided the water from the water, on the 2nd day, with the firmament that is the lower heaven, Gen.1:6-8.

That water did not become part of our atmoshere until the windows of heaven were opened, at the time of the flood, Gen. 7:11.

Adam had not seen rain until the time of the flood.

Before that time, there went up a mist from the ground that watered the whole face of the ground, Gen. 2:5-6.

God Bless you. Charlie

Are clouds only made up of water vapor? Ever heard of a cloud of smoke, or a cloud of dust, or a cloud of witnesses?

 

[KingdomCome]

I say each to his own:

I can see that no other will consider Christ Jesus to be the beginning and that all things reside within Him, because, the statement, "In the beginning..." by man, is required to mean "at" the beginning. And, that Christ Jesus is the ending that makes the beginning and the ending the same. Moreover, that we disregard the precept that Christ Jesus is "...all, and in all."

However...I am convinced that:

Matter came from God, the Father of Lights, and through / via the Lamb — not from nothing...God is Light and Christ Jesus is the Light of the world.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Gk for "by" is en and en = "in", therefore, all things are in/within Him. He, Christ Jesus, is the beginning. The creation was not "at" the beginning — All of creation is "in" the beginning. Again, "In the beginning..." is not "at" the beginning, "In the beginning..." is not an historical phrase. Christ Jesus is the "...beginning and the ending."

Greek: "en arche" = In the beginning...

Hebrew: "be re'shiyth" = In the beginning...

Etymologically the "be" in "be re'shiyth" and the "en" in "en arche" [a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)] means within or inside.

"In" the beginning is not required to mean "At" the beginning in the recesses of our mind.

I know that mass and matter comes from the light of our Sun and the stars. I know that our Sun and our Moon and all of the stars, come from and reside within the Light of the world, Christ Jesus the Son of God (the Sun of righteousness —Mal 4:2) who comes from the Father of Lights who is God the "...all in all."

When the sperm and the ovum come together, a child cannot be born unless the Light of God is present. Christ Jesus is the Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

All of creation is born from that very Light...Creation came not from nothing...

Blessings

 

[Guestman]

Charlie: How could there have been clouds before the flood?

The Word divided the water from the water, on the 2nd day, with the firmament that is the lower heaven, Gen.1:6-8.

That water did not become part of our atmoshere until the windows of heaven were opened, at the time of the flood, Gen. 7:11.

Adam had not seen rain until the time of the flood.

Before that time, there went up a mist from the ground that watered the whole face of the ground, Gen. 2:5-6.

God Bless you. Charlie

Before the Noachian Flood, there was a canopy of water that surrounded the earth. The Bible calls it in Hebrew ham·mab·bul´, meaning "heavenly ocean".(Gen 6:17, ftn) Most of the water that is now in the oceans was once above the earth, acting as a warm blanket and keeping the earth almost one temperature, like a "greenhouse". That is why there has been found frozen mammoths with green food in their mouths when thawed out in the area of Siberia, Russia.

 

[KingdomCome]

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light" but the Sun is created on the 4th day.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day", how can there be morning if the Sun is created on the first day. Almost all people start reading the Bible on Genesis and yet there are already "hard-to-understand" verse in this chapter.

EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

Christ Jesus is the beginning. Christ Jesus is the Light of the world (kosmos). In Christ, all things consist.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. — (Thayer 1722 Greek word en is not "by" but determined "in")

Christ is not the physical light of the sun and the moon — Christ is the "Sun of righteousness" Mal 4:2 which is above all and where all of creation resides within.

Christ is the beginning and the ending. In the beginning, Let there be Light, and you will reside within the Beginning and the Ending, and the Glory of God. Then, you will be able to see the Word "In the beginning..."

And God said, "Let there be Light."

Blessings

 

[brionne]

Charlie: How could there have been clouds before the flood?

The Word divided the water from the water, on the 2nd day, with the firmament that is the lower heaven, Gen.1:6-8.

That water did not become part of our atmoshere until the windows of heaven were opened, at the time of the flood, Gen. 7:11.

Adam had not seen rain until the time of the flood.

Before that time, there went up a mist from the ground that watered the whole face of the ground, Gen. 2:5-6.

God Bless you. Charlie

when God began preparing the earth, the earth was completely surrounded by waters. That means it atmosphere was not clear...it was thick with vapor/cloud much like jupiters atmosphere.

that time was long before man and animals were on earth.... unless you take the 'days' of creation 'literally' as 24 hours. But the evidence is that the days of creation were many thousands of years. And the hebrew word translated as 'day' is 'Yom' and its a word that can mean longer periods of time then just 24hrs.


So look at the physical evidence. The earth really is millions of years old. It was not created in six 24hr days.