Creation Of Earth

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Jobeliano

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God said, "Let there be light, and there was light" but the Sun is created on the 4th day.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day", how can there be morning if the Sun is created on the first day. Almost all people start reading the Bible on Genesis and yet there are already "hard-to-understand" verse in this chapter.

EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?
 

bud02

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I touched on this topic just the other day If you read from post 55 frorward you my find something that begins to answer your question.
http://www.christian...dpost__p__92473


Edit reply;
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/12487-6-days-of-15-billion-years/
 

Nomad

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God said, "Let there be light, and there was light" but the Sun is created on the 4th day.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day", how can there be morning if the Sun is created on the first day. Almost all people start reading the Bible on Genesis and yet there are already "hard-to-understand" verse in this chapter.

This really isn't a problem when we remember that light was created on the first day. We're also told that God separated the light from the darkness, calling the light 'day' and the darkness 'night.' on the first day as well. Although the sun, moon and the stars were made the normative light bearers on the fourth day, it's clear that light was not only present on the first day, it was separated from darkness and constituted the 'first day.'


EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

Not all scientists believe this. Here's a link to a great article:

101 evidences for a young earth and universe
 

Martin W.

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God said, "Let there be light, and there was light" but the Sun is created on the 4th day.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day", how can there be morning if the Sun is created on the first day. Almost all people start reading the Bible on Genesis and yet there are already "hard-to-understand" verse in this chapter.

EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

Hi Jobeliano

Light and sun are two different things.

If the earth rotates every 24 hours you could call 12 hours morning and 12 evening.. The sun is not required.

It would be different if Genesis said there was 12 hours of sunlight and 12 hours of darkness before the sun was made. Then we would have a problem.


All the Genealogy and years are recorded from Adam to Jesus. Add them all up and you get about 4004 years BC , which is about 6014 years ago. That is how we date it.

The scientist grabs his millions or billions of years theory out of the air. Scientists change their time estimates on a regular basis.

Scientists use stars and planets to measure time and distance. Time is only a function in our know universe.

God does not operate in time. He operates in eternity.A place without time.

A man cannot measure what God does by using time calculations , if God has not use them himself in the first place.

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks
Martin.
 

Jobeliano

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So are you saying that scientists discovery of the age of the Sun is not accurate?

All the Genealogy and years are recorded from Adam to Jesus. Add them all up and you get about 4004 years BC , which is about 6014 years ago. That is how we date it.

I tried it once to record the ages but I lost track to Jacob, it is said on the Bible that Jacob had 2 sons but it didn't say anymore at what age did Jacob got them.
 

aspen

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So are you saying that scientists discovery of the age of the Sun is not accurate?
I tried it once to record the ages but I lost track to Jacob, it is said on the Bible that Jacob had 2 sons but it didn't say anymore at what age did Jacob got them.

I think we run into trouble when we try to force the Creation story into a Western mindset account.......the fact is, it does not make sense as a literal account - science and common sense tell us that Earth could not have been created in that manner.

The good news is that believing in a literal account of creation is not necessary part of salvation.

I believe the story reads like a revelation from God. I believe that Moses explained the revelation that took 7 days to reveal to him to the people around him and they passed down the story.

Unfortunately, our society doesn't value stories that are not literally true so we try to make them so by creating different ages and museums to try to legitimize the story.

The fact is, we do not need all those mental gymnastics - the story is supposed to be in the Bible whether it is a literal account or not. It explains how we fell out of relationship with God and the introduction of sin in the world.

Peace


 

Jobeliano

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What I really want to know is that what does God mean when He said "Let there be light". He called the Light Day so "Let there be day" and then "God looked at the day"? We can't see the day.

So God there is Day and Night on the first day but how can there be day if there is no sun?
 

aspen

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What I really want to know is that what does God mean when He said "Let there be light". He called the Light Day so "Let there be day" and then "God looked at the day"? We can't see the day.

So God there is Day and Night on the first day but how can there be day if there is no sun?


Maybe it is the light of awareness within Moses.

 

veteran

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What I really want to know is that what does God mean when He said "Let there be light". He called the Light Day so "Let there be day" and then "God looked at the day"? We can't see the day.

So God there is Day and Night on the first day but how can there be day if there is no sun?


If you think there is maybe a deeper Message in that Scripture, then you are correct. Many forget there was a time when God created Satan perfect in his ways and he followed God (Ezekiel 28:12-18). Many also forget there was a time when God separated Satan from His Presence after the first rebellion with the creating of the heavenly abode called hell. That's one of the deeper Messages Genesis 1 of separating Light from darkness is about.

Rev 21:24-25
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
(KJV)

Rev 22:4-5
4 And they shall see His face; and His name shall be in their foreheads.
5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
(KJV)



 
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JarBreaker

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He called the Light Day so "Let there be day" and then "God looked at the day"? We can't see the day.

A more literal translation into English tells this as, "He called TO the light ... Day" and then --- "and to the darkness, He called "night""


When he created the light and called it good (in Hebrew tov, which is more than just the English meaning of "good" .... think - perfect, complete, fully functional in the manner it was created to be) --- but the darkness is not called tov (good)

So, He decreed that the light shall not mingle with the darkness --- you dont see it as often anymore but an old translation used to say, He separated the light from the darkness - "and the darkness comprehended it not".
 
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242006

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EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

I'll address this part of your post. The Bible timeline is in exact correlation to the scientific timeline.

The 6 days of creation in Gen. 1 refers to this current second age. See 2 Pet. 3.

The Bible states when the sun and earth were created in Gen. 1:1 -- in the beginning. The end of the first age is marked scientifically by the end of the Pleistocene, which was about 14,000 years ago. No land mammal has crossed this bridge in time due to mass extinction. Many of the land mammals that God created for this second age are similar to animals in the first age, but are fundamentally different to the extent that God-less evolutionists cannot explain it [for example, the dire wolf lived in the 1st age; whereas, the timber wolf, though similar, is a second age creation, but could not have evolved from the dire wolf].

Since a day with God is 1000 years with man, one knows that prior to Adam's formation [Gen. 2], there were a minimum of 7,000 years [6 days of creation plus 1 day of rest] of our time. Adding the 6,000 years of time from Adam to present with the 7,000 years of time prior to Adam's formation, we get 13,000 years from the commencement of the first day of creation [reformation] in Gen. 1:2. This correlates precisely with the end of the Pleistocene and a flooded earth.

Hope this helps you out.
 

Duckybill

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The scientist grabs his millions or billions of years theory out of the air.
Right on Martin! I'm amazed at how many people believe the evolution baloney.

I think we run into trouble when we try to force the Creation story into a Western mindset account.......the fact is, it does not make sense as a literal account - science and common sense tell us that Earth could not have been created in that manner.
The literal creation account makes perfect sense to Christians.

Exodus 20:11 (NKJV)
[sup]11 [/sup]For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.
 

TexUs

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[quote name='aspen' timestamp='1291546188' post='92978']
I think we run into trouble when we try to force the Creation story into a Western mindset account.......the fact is, it does not make sense as a literal account - science and common sense tell us that Earth could not have been created in that manner.[/quote]
Science can't tell us that it was created by a big bang, either.

Science isn't prophetic, nor is it a god. We can use it to test and learn from the world around us and that's it. It can't see back to the creation of the world- no matter the theory.

[quote name='Watchman_2' timestamp='1292645956' post='94424']The 6 days of creation in Gen. 1 refers to this current second age. See 2 Pet. 3.[/quote]
Not supported at all by 2 Peter 3.

[quote name='Watchman_2' timestamp='1292645956' post='94424]The end of the first age is marked scientifically by[/quote]
And right off the bat you defer to judgement of humans rather than what's Biblical.
 

Guestman

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God said, "Let there be light, and there was light" but the Sun is created on the 4th day.

"And the evening and the morning were the first day", how can there be morning if the Sun is created on the first day. Almost all people start reading the Bible on Genesis and yet there are already "hard-to-understand" verse in this chapter.

EDIT:
According to what most people say Adam existed about 6000 years ago but according to what scientist say the Sun already existed billions of years ago. So how can we solve this problem?

The creation account at Genesis 1 needs to seen from the point of view of a person standing on the earth. Genesis 1:1 says: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." The sources of it, of course, existed before that first day but were invisible from the surface of the earth. Thus, the heavens, which are all the billions of galaxies, were ' created in the beginning,' some unspecified time in the distant past, and of which this included our sun as part of the Milky Way galaxy.

So when God said on Day One, “Let light ("light" Hebrew ’ohr) come to be,” the sun had long been providing light, with now diffused light evidently penetrating the cloud layers even though the sources of that light could not yet be discerned from the earth’s surface. This was a gradual process, as is indicated by translator J. W. Watts: “And gradually light came into existence.” (Gen 1:3, A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) God brought about a division between the light and the darkness, calling the light Day and the darkness Night. This indicates that the earth was rotating on its axis as it revolved around the sun, so that its hemispheres, eastern and western, could enjoy periods of light and darkness.(Gen 1:3, 4)

Day four saw dramatic changes: “Then God continued, saying, ‘Let there be lights ("lights", Hebrew ma·’ohr´) in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night, and they shall be for signs and for seasons and for days and years. Also they shall be for lights ("lights", Hebrew ma·’ohr´) in the expanse of the heavens to give light ("light" Hebrew ’ohr) upon the earth’; and gradually it came to be so. Accordingly God proceeded to make the two great lights, the greater light (the sun) as a ruler of the day, and the lesser light (the moon) as a ruler of the night, likewise the stars.”(Genesis 1:14-16, Watts)

Now, for the first time, more concentrated sunlight reached the surface of the earth. The sources of light—sun and moon and stars—could be seen from the surface of the earth. In the account of the first creative day, the Hebrew word for light is ’ohr, light in a general sense; but on day four, it is ma·’ohr´, meaning the source of the light.

The creation of Adam, and later Eve, was at the end of the sixth "creative" day, over 6000 years ago. The forming of man was the last of God's creative handiworks. Jehovah God prepared the earth for human habitation over the course of six "creative" days, with each "day" approximately 7000 years long. It is like a person building a home over a period of time, and after it has been completed, then they finally move into their new home, taking care of it.

The sun had been created "in the beginning" when the galaxies were being made throughout the universe. Would it be advisable to move into an incomplete home ? Jehovah God wanted his final creation - man - to be happy in his new home, that was to be his home for eternity. Hence, he lovingly prepared the earth, with all it's wonderful features and magnificent beauty, for his last creation - man. Thus, from the earth being just a "rock", God fashioned the earth into our beautiful home over six "creative" days, or about 42,000 years, for the concluding "creative act" of making man.
 

veteran

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Biblically, each day of Genesis 1 at most could be 1,000 years each (Ps.90:4; 2 Pet.3:8).

So the 6 days of Gen.1, and then the 7th day of Gen.2 when God rested, could at most equal 7,000 years. That's by allowing the Ps.2:4 and 2 Pet.3:8 Scripture to interpret one of God's days as being like a 1,000 years.

It's also Biblically determined with what God declared to Adam, that "in the day" he ate from the wrong tree he would die (Gen.2:17). Adam lived 930 years. Methusaleh lived the longest at 969 years, but still short of a 1,000 years. Thus God's prophecy that "in the day" Adam disobeyed Him that Adam would die, Adam did literally die within that 1,000 year day reckoning.

It's been roughly 6,000 years since God formed the man Adam in His Garden (per Bishop Ussher's Bible chronology of begats in his 17th century work The History Of The World, from Christ back to Adam put at 4004 B.C.).

6,000 years - to creation of mankind
1,000 years - 7th day God rested
6,000 years - from 4004 B.C. of the man Adam to today
----------------------------------------------------------------------
13,000 years
+
1,000 years - Christ's future "thousand years" reign on earth.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14,000 years total


Per the New Testament, the "day of Christ" (2 Thess.2:1), or "day of The LORD" per the OT prophets, that day is put for the Rev.20 "thousand years" of Christ and His elect's future literal reign over all the nations with a rod of iron. That day is referred to as a day of 'rest' per Hebrews 4, modeled after God's 7th day of rest. Thus two cycles of 7,000 years, Christ's day of rest still to come with His return to this earth to start the Rev.20 "thousand years".

That would put creation of mankind (aadam) at no more than 7,000 years ago, and definitely no more than 13,000 years ago.

That still does not explain how old the sun is, nor how old this earth is.

When Genesis 1:1-10 is properly read (even by the KJV Old English), God's creation of the earth is declared in Gen.1:1; there is no statement of literal earth creation after that verse. The later appearance of "dry land" underneath the "waters" is not a creation statement. It's a statement about uncovering of the earth that was already underneath the waters first mentioned back at Gen.1:2.

In Rev.12:3-4, we are given a hint about Satan's rebellion of old. Within that same timeframe of Satan's rebellion we're shown a beast kingdom that he rebelled against God with. It had ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns. In the next chapter of Rev.13:1-2, we're given another beast kingdom example, one that's to have ten crowns, and it's linked to the type of kingdoms Daniel was given to see, which were literal kingdoms upon this earth.

In Ezekiel 31, God gives a Message to Pharoah king of Egypt, and then immediately begins describing "the Assyrian" as a cedar of high stature, his boughs multiplied above all the trees of the field. And under his shadow dwelt all great nations (Ezek.31:6). Then in Ezek.31:8-9, God describes him being in His Garden, that no tree in the Garden of God was like him in his beauty. God then says He made him fair by the multitude of his branches so all the trees of Eden in the Garden of God envied him. Problem: the flesh king of Assyria never was in God's Garden of Eden, so who is God really talking about with that analogy? It's Satan as that high cedar originally in God's Garden, before he rebelled.

In that Ezek.31 high cedar analogy about Satan, the fowls of heaven and beasts of the field that dwelt under his branches are referred to as "great nations". That's about the kingdom of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns that Satan originally rebelled against God with, drawing a third of the stars (angels) to earth with his tail (per Rev.12:3-4).

By the time of Adam and Eve in God's Garden, Satan was already in his role as the temptor. He had already rebelled against God, and was in his role as the adversary, symbolized by "that old serpent". So when was that time before he rebelled, the time when God had set him up as that high cedar in His Garden of Ezekiel 31, and when all great nations dwelt under his boughs? It was long before the time of Adam and Eve. And it hints that God's creation of the earth was before the start of this present world beginning at Gen.1:2. The earth being totally engulfed under the waters of Gen.1:2 reveals God ended a previous time upon this earth, the time of Rev.12:3-4 when Satan first rebelled with a beast kingdom of seven crowns, and committed the first sin.

Science estimates the last ice age was around 11,000 to 18,000 years ago. I think it was closer to 13,000 years ago, starting at Gen.1:2 with God shaking this old earth to end Satan's first rebellion, and then covering the whole earth with waters of a flood. That would also be when He separated His Light from the darkness, the setting up of the place of darkness in the heavenly to be Satan's new home called hell. It was also when God judged and sentenced Satan to death, and giving him the power of death (Heb.2:14).


Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."

When did God literally shake this earth only? Paul is quoting from Haggai 2:6-7, with Hebrew echad put for "one", which means one of several (unicus in Latin, which means multiple as one. That's why Paul says here, "Yet once more...".) Then Paul gives greater detail as to this future shaking...

27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

That's the shaking and burning of the "elements" Peter was talking about in 2 Pet. 3. In the Greek it's about man's works on this earth being removed. This future shaking Paul speaks of from Haggai is the great shaking on the day of The LORD at Christ's return, as given in Scripture like Isaiah 2:19; Isaiah 13:13; Joel 3:16; Isaiah 30:32-33; Ezekiel 38:19-23.

"Yet once more" signifies that God also did that degree of shaking of only the earth once before, but when? I believe the first one was to end Satan's rebellion of old. That would be the only comparable level of a previous shaking of this earth that's anywhere close to the final one at Christ's future coming.


Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
27 thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(KJV)


There's that previous shaking of the earth in the degree that Hebrws 12 is speaking of a future final one. That's the link to the event of Genesis 1:2, with the earth having become a waste and an undistinguishable ruin per the Hebrew of "without form, and void".

Does that mean flesh man existed back then? No. Those "cities" point to that beast kingdom structure of ten horns, seven heads, and seven crowns that Satan originally drew a third of the angels to earth with, per Rev.12:3-4. That was about the "all great nations" of that time which dwelt under Satan's branches in God's Garden, per Ezekiel 31. God's Garden of Eden was on earth back then, as we're given that hint even in Genesis 2 with God's River flowing out of Eden to feed four literal rivers on the earth, of which two of those rivers can still be geographically located on earth today (Hiddekel or Tigris, and the Euphrates).

If you don't understand this, then you'll never understand in what time Satan was "perfect in his ways" with following God per Ezekiel 28, and exalted as the high cedar in God's Garden. You won't understand the ancient history of the earth either when God originally created it, and when all the sons of God sang for joy.

God is going to shake this earth once more, like He did of old. And He's going to shake Heaven also, casting out Satan and his host. God Himself is coming back to this earth to reclaim His inheritance of old, The Zion He loves, and His people who love Him through His Son.
 

TexUs

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Biblically, each day of Genesis 1 at most could be 1,000 years each (Ps.90:4; 2 Pet.3:8).

So the 6 days of Gen.1, and then the 7th day of Gen.2 when God rested, could at most equal 7,000 years. That's by allowing the Ps.2:4 and 2 Pet.3:8 Scripture to interpret one of God's days as being like a 1,000 years.

Legitimate argument but the Bible doesn't say what you claim.

It says they are AS or LIKE 1,000 years. It doesn't say it's strictly equal to them.

I think the idea to be taken away is that God is outside of time.

IMO you do no better than the three earth agers at stretching what the Bible actually says ;)


I really don't know why some people must force a 6,000 year creation. It can't be proven.
I really don't know why some people must force a zillion year creation. It can't be proven.

The only reliable method we have of dating anything is, unfortunately, back-dating the oldest records of genealogy data we've got. Those are in the Bible. We can date the existence of mankind back 6,000 years but past that, we don't know how old the earth is.

I really don't think it even matters. Can anyone really give me a good reason why the age of the earth matters? (For us Christians)
The earth could have been sitting around without life or anything, and God taking his time to create over a zillion years if he wanted to. What matters is when he placed man there and when our existence began- and we actually KNOW that!


I won't comment on the rest of your post because it looks like it's all based upon the assumption of 1 day = 1,000. As always, if beginning assumptions are wrong, your entire theory is.
 

tomwebster

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.... Can anyone really give me a good reason why the age of the earth matters? (For us Christians) ...


I can and I have, several times now but your eyes are unable to see it and your ears are unable to hear it so why continue throwing pearls. How will you ever understand the end when you can't understand the beginning? Who is the enemy?
 

jiggyfly

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Anyone considered the theory of relativity with the account given in Genesis 1?

Science and religious theology have at least one thing in common. they are both studies which employ far more theory than fact.
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