Crusades Began with Reconquista

[Matthias]

Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old. - Matthew 13:52

I am afraid Spurgeon is not in my bag baby! Compliments, though, on being a well studied guy!

Thank you.

@Wrangler has said that Spurgeon, a Baptist preacher - known in his day as the “Prince of Preachers” - is one of his favorite Christian authors. Spurgeon held my position: the followers of Jesus must not kill our enemies.

I was raised Baptist. Spurgeon, played an important part in my spiritual formation. I still read him daily.

 

[rockytopva]

Matthias -> “rabbi with no knife,“ armed only with the full armor of God.

I believe the church movements as seven and I believe outlined in Revelation...

1. Messianic
2. Martyr - Ten Roman persecutions as outlined in Foxes Book of Martyrs
3, Orthodox - Basically an Eastern movement
4. Catholic - An Italian based church
5, Protestant - Sardis is a Gem, elegant yet not much there spiritually
6. Brotherly Love - Did this include Spurgeon?
7. Loadicea - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

Question... Is the Messianic Church coming back alive? Here we have a Messianic Rabbi Zev Porat whose youtube site at messiah ofisrael is now above 120,000,000 views.... Biography - Bio - Messiah of Israel Ministries

 

[Matthias]

Question... Is the Messianic Church coming back alive?

I believe it has been alive since the foundation of the church.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe it has been alive since the foundation of the church.

I believe that too. We had a Messianic speaker at our church one time and I mentioned the seven churches as I believed them and told him I would like to visit a Messianic church sometimes. He looked at me, gave me a serious look, and didn't say much. I could tell that he was thinking I just didn't know enough about what I was proposing to get into.

 

[Matthias]

I believe that too. We had a Messianic speaker at our church one time and I mentioned the seven churches as I believed them and told him I would like to visit a Messianic church sometimes. He looked at me, gave me a serious look, and didn't say much. I could tell that he was thinking I just didn't know enough about what I was proposing to get into.

Do you believe I’m an apologist for Islam? Do you believe I hate Christians?

 

[rockytopva]

And... The congregations I would consider Christian...

1. Messianic
2. Martyr - Oriental Orthodox
3, Orthodox - Greek Orthodox
4. Catholic - Catholic
5, Protestant - A whole lot of denominations here
6. Brotherly Love - Again... A whole lot of denominations
7. Laodicea - Basically Charismatic and Word of Faith

I would not consider the Messianic church non-Christian.

These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 2:1

Seven Stars - Those in each congregation
Seven Candlesticks - Each congregation

 

[rockytopva]

Do you believe I’m apologist for Islam?

I believe you are trying to condemn the activities of other congregations. In which... The Lord has his issues with each congregation. Therefore the Apostles stress.... It is up to us once to live... And after that judgement. We will all be judged according to the deeds done in our body.

 

[Matthias]

I believe you are trying to condemn the activities of other congregations. In which... The Lord has his issues with each congregation. Therefore the Apostles stress.... It is up to us once to live... And after that judgement. We will all be judged according to the deeds done in our body.

Thanks. What I’m trying to do is persuade people that followers of Jesus shouldn’t kill followers of Jesus, nor non-followers of Jesus. That doing so is contrary to the teaching, preaching, and example of Jesus and the apostles.

Muslim. Put away your sword. Christian. Put away your sword.

 

[rockytopva]

Thanks. What I’m trying to do is persuade people that followers of Jesus shouldn’t kill followers of Jesus, nor non-followers of Jesus.

But... I would say that there are Messianic Christians who will end up killing enemies of Israel. In which other congregations also have killed what they considered enemies of their own state.

 

[Matthias]

But... I would say that there are Messianic Christians who will end up killing enemies of Israel. In which other congregations also have killed what they considered enemies of their own state.

Jesus and the apostles didn’t kill for the state. The church up until the time of Constantine didn’t kill for the state. They didn’t kill.

Followers of Jesus killing followers of Jesus. I advise my readers to start there. If we can’t clear that low bar ...

 

[rockytopva]

Jesus and the apostles didn’t kill for the state. The church up until the time of Constantine didn’t kill for the state. They didn’t kill.

Attila the Hun did not specifically target Christians out of religious hatred. Instead, he and his pagan army killed both Christians and non-Christians as part of massive campaigns of plunder and conquest against the Roman Empire, earning the infamous title "Scourge of God" from terrified Christian populations.

I would justify those protecting their lands against such scourges.

 

[Matthias]

Attila the Hun did not specifically target Christians out of religious hatred. Instead, he and his pagan army killed both Christians and non-Christians as part of massive campaigns of plunder and conquest against the Roman Empire, earning the infamous title "Scourge of God" from terrified Christian populations.

I would justify those protecting their lands against such scourges.

”We don’t use the weapons of the world.” - Jesus

 

[rockytopva]

”We don’t use the weapons of the world.” - Jesus

Why... Then... Do you believe it is OK for Israel to protect their own lands?

 

[Matthias]

Why... Then... Do you believe it is OK for Israel to protect their own lands?

Romans 13.

Why are followers of Jesus using weapons of the world when he said we do not use the weapons of the world?

 

[rockytopva]

Romans 13.

Why are followers of Jesus using weapons of the world when he said we do not use the weapons of the world?

I personally believe it is OK to join the military for protection of state
The paramilitary can be a problem if the movement is not OK with God.

In which the Crusaders may have gotten out of hand.

 

[Matthias]

I personally believe it is OK to join the military for protection of state

Jesus didn’t. Paul didn’t. The church leaders in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd centuries didn’t. Neither do I. A shift in attitude began in the 4th century.



Have you read them?

The paramilitary can be a problem if the movement is not OK with God.

In which the Crusaders may have gotten out of hand.

 

[Anchorite]

There are times to take up the sword...

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. - Luke 22:36

Some people try to claim that Jesus wanted His disciples to arm themselves, to have weapons for self defense.

But when Jesus said buy a sword, and the disciples replied they had two swords, Jesus said that was enough.

Thus, the swords were not for self defense or for killing those who attack. Two swords would not be nearly enough to combat the Roman soldiers who were coming to arrest Jesus.

In fact, when Peter used his sword to cut off someone’s ear, Jesus healed the ear and scolded Peter to put away his sword.

Jesus condemned weaponry by saying that all who use the sword will perish by the sword.

Those two swords were enough for Jesus to be reckoned among the transgressors. The Roman soldiers could see the swords and arrest Jesus for being an instigator of armed rebellion against the empire.


"Jesus reckoned among the transgressors" refers to the fulfillment of prophecy (Isaiah 53:12) where Jesus was treated, condemned, and executed as a common criminal, specifically by being crucified between two thieves. This act represents his deep identification with sinful humanity, substituting himself in the place of sinners to achieve atonement and reconciliation with God.


Luke 22



36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.


Matthew 26:52

Then said Jesus unto him, “Put up again thy sword into his place, for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.”

John 18:36

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Wrangler]

@Matthias fundamentally believes God’s children don’t have the responsibility to do Justice in this world. When asked if we are better off being ruled by Satanists and Atheists, the mental gymnastics is entertaining to watch.

 

[Wrangler]

Some people try to claim that Jesus wanted His disciples to arm themselves, to have weapons for self defense.

The alternative explanation is what; our Lord wanted us to have dust collectors?

 

[rockytopva]

ruled by Satanists and Atheists

Ruled by Satanists and Atheists? As far as I am concerned...

If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die. - 1 Corinthians 15:32