Dare I ask this...

[Cristo Rei]

Do experts have more rights than non-experts to free speech? Should corporations allow anyone who calls himself an expert to say anything, to do anything? I thought corporations had the right to run themselves.

Seems different people have different ideas about who's an expert and who is a crackpot. Who gets to decide who the experts are?

It's pretty clear to me you're listening to people who are called experts and who claim to be censored. For all I know, you may enjoy having rebellious opinions. But do tell: How did you find out about them? They weren't silenced. You found out about them. My guess is you found about them at a site that tells you stuff you want to hear.

When i say expert i mean any doctor or medical scientist. I didn't say corporations couldn't censor i said its suspicious that they are.

I'll give u an example. A week ago about a dozen doctors held a press conference regarding covid and HCQ. Before long social media had banned it, the mainstream tried to discredit them along with Fauci (who basically declared himself to be the only covid authority), their website got taken down and at least one of them got sacked... Their known as the American frontline doctors, you would of seen it...
Is that how u think science ought to be conducted?

 

[Brakelite]

I had not noticed that the economy of the entire planet had been destroyed.

 

[BarneyFife]

With regard to the "novel" part, I found this video by a group called America's Frontline Doctors a day or so ago. Their website has gone dark and the video is being scrubbed everywhere. I downloaded it just in case it disappears. Not sure why. I normally don't give this kind of stuff much attention, but I got sucked into this one because it seemed fairly calm (except for the impassioned plea of the lady doctor from Nigeria) and rational. I'd heard from an MD I trust several months ago that the virus could be treated with NAC and zinc, and they mention zinc here as well. I hear the virus really hates copper, too. AFD claims the virus (SARS-CoV-2) operates 78% identically to SARS-CoV at about 12 minutes in.

America's Frontline Doctors - SCOTUS Press Conference

 

[Brakelite]

I had not noticed that the economy of the entire planet had been destroyed.

You think the plans and agendas linked to covid were all devised and written and published in just the last 6 months? And the world economy is being reshaped by accident? First, kill off the old to give substantive reason to introduce the new.

 

[farouk]

Do experts have more rights than non-experts to free speech? Should corporations allow anyone who calls himself an expert to say anything, to do anything? I thought corporations had the right to run themselves.

Seems different people have different ideas about who's an expert and who is a crackpot. Who gets to decide who the experts are?

It's pretty clear to me you're listening to people who are called experts and who claim to be censored. For all I know, you may enjoy having rebellious opinions. But do tell: How did you find out about them? They weren't silenced. You found out about them. My guess is you found about them at a site that tells you stuff you want to hear.

I like what one newspaper editor said:

"Opinion is free. Facts are sacred."

(Or was it "Comment is free. Facts are sacred." ? one or the other...)

 

[Giuliano]

When i say expert i mean any doctor or medical scientist. I didn't say corporations couldn't censor i said its suspicious that they are.

I'll give u an example. A week ago about a dozen doctors held a press conference regarding covid and HCQ. Before long social media had banned it, the mainstream tried to discredit them along with Fauci (who basically declared himself to be the only covid authority), their website got taken down and at least one of them got sacked... Their known as the American frontline doctors, you would of seen it...
Is that how u think science ought to be conducted?

A doctor in practice is not an expert in research matters. Doctors in practice try to keep up with research by reading various journals. They don't call themselves experts. Those twelve doctors included Stella Immanuel -- we've already discussed some of her other odd ideas. Facebook took down one of her videos, and she threatened them saying Jesus would do something to Facebook. The woman is a nutcase. She may also be a little hot water in Texas.

Should Facebook be in the business of offering medical advice? Should it allow a doctor to hand out advice to people he never met? Facebook was going by the general consensus of the "experts" -- both in the Trump administration and in various research groups. People offering different views most likely means they lack the best science on their side. It could kill people. People are still drinking sanitizer because Trump mentioned it in passing.

 

[Giuliano]

You think the plans and agendas linked to covid were all devised and written and published in just the last 6 months? And the world economy is being reshaped by accident? First, kill off the old to give substantive reason to introduce the new.

From the way governments stumbled around, I would say our leaders were scrambling to make sense of things. I would say Trump thought he was doing the right thing to keep the economy going, but he made some wrong assumptions. He does want to be elected again -- so of course, he'd like to keep the economy going. He just botched things. I don't see some dark conspiracy behind that.

 

[Cristo Rei]

A doctor in practice is not an expert in research matters. Doctors in practice try to keep up with research by reading various journals. They don't call themselves experts. Those twelve doctors included Stella Immanuel -- we've already discussed some of her other odd ideas. Facebook took down one of her videos, and she threatened them saying Jesus would do something to Facebook. The woman is a nutcase. She may also be a little hot water in Texas.

Should Facebook be in the business of offering medical advice? Should it allow a doctor to hand out advice to people he never met? Facebook was going by the general consensus of the "experts" -- both in the Trump administration and in various research groups. People offering different views most likely means they lack the best science on their side. It could kill people. People are still drinking sanitizer because Trump mentioned it in passing.

So those practicing doctors who treat patients every day aren't experts but Dr Fauci who hasn't treated a patient in over 40 years is an expert.
Uh ok then, my bad...

Communist science 101

6,000 practicing doctors that signed the petition for the use of HCQ = quacks.
Fauci = infallible... Oh i get it now

 

[Brakelite]

With regard to the "novel" part, I found this video by a group called America's Frontline Doctors a day or so ago. Their website has gone dark and the video is being scrubbed everywhere. I downloaded it just in case it disappears. Not sure why. I normally don't give this kind of stuff much attention, but I got sucked into this one because it seemed fairly calm (except for the impassioned plea of the lady doctor from Nigeria) and rational. I'd heard from an MD I trust several months ago that the virus could be treated with NAC and zinc, and they mention zinc here as well. I hear the virus really hates copper, too. AFD claims the virus (SARS-CoV-2) operates 78% identically to SARS-CoV at about 12 minutes in.

America's Frontline Doctors - SCOTUS Press Conference

Thanks for that link. Well done. Was wanting to watch after hearing so much. A well known doctor from Britain called the current shemozzle premeditated hysteria.
I am grateful for Jesus because He keeps pulling me back from becoming too agitated and angry. And I get frustrated that even some in the church cannot see through the deceit, the politicking and the cloud of distracting illogicalities that enshroud the whole thing. Like masks for instance. A virus can't make its way through or around a bandana? And a mosquito can't get through a chain link fence.

 

[Grailhunter]

Fear has its own penalties and hysteria numbs the mind. Stay away from the politics of it and the media hype, and the sky is falling statistics. Do smart things.

It is a virus, not the end of time and not the zombie apocalypse. It has a cure that has been proven worldwide. Common sense still applies, the elderly and people with health issues should reduce their exposure but should be outside in open air for exercise. Wear masks when they are in stores but send the younger adults in when possible. The elderly should not count on masks, better to limit exposure.

There is a cure and there is a preventive.
In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality. Prospective trials are needed to examine this impact.

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

For the rest of us...
Most people that test positive either will not get sick or not get very sick. If you do get sick, take the medication and go on. People need to get back to work and we are so far along with this that shutdowns are not the answer. Show some courage and go for it, still being practical. Covid is not the only thing that can kill you. We have been living with influenza for years, killing 30,000 plus or minus every year and we hardly paid any attention to it. Still, washing hands frequently is just the smart thing to do...whether it is for influenza or Covid. At this stage we are in the process of herd immunity....you can look it up.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial - ScienceDirect

 

[Grailhunter]

Treatment with Hydroxychloroquine Cut Death Rate Significantly in COVID-19 Patients, Henry Ford Health System Study Shows

 

[Grailhunter]

Newly Published Outpatient Study Finds that Early Use of Zinc, Hydroxychloroquine and Azithromycin Is Associated with Less Hospitalizations and Death

 

[Brakelite]

and the sky is falling statistics

Not all statistics are are in the sky fall category.
Here is a copy paste from a local source I thought out things in perspective...
If you think what is happening is based on good science and data and sound decision making from parliament ... you should probably watch these clips. If these members of parliament are challenging the decisions being made ... why aren’t you? If the world health organisation on the 3rd of August urged countries not to reimpose lockdowns ... why are a couple of ministers in Australia without the support of parliament doing so ? If the leading medical journals on the planet are releasing studies showing lockdowns and masks don’t work ... why are they being imposed ? Here are your stats for Victoria as of the 5th of August, 2020. How many Victorians have been tested so far? - 1,720,000 (million). How many have tested positive? - 13,035 How many Victorians have died so far? - 162 We have an estimated population of 6,430,000, so the current death rate is 0.0025% of the population. So in terms of Victorian positive tests, only 0.2% of the population has tested positive. And just 1.24% of the positive cases have resulted in deaths.” It doesn’t matter how thinly you slice something ... there are always 2 sides. If the only view you have had so far on this pandemic is via main stream media - I get how much fear you must be in. I never watch it but happened to be at a shop the other evening where it was playing. And omg I get it now. Fear - lies - doom and gloom. But that is not what the data shows. Countries that have not had a lockdown now have herd immunity and virtually zero daily deaths such as Sweden. Countries that have access to and have been using HCQ have distinctly fewer deaths. If what is happening is ok with you - enjoy your ignorant bliss. If you would like to go from fear to empowered and stand in your rights

I would add to the above. Indonesia has a population of 120 million. Of those, less than 6000 deaths. HCQ is available over the counter in Indonesia. So while I tend to agree that covid is a real thing, it isn't that far removed from other coronavirus strains that have been around for a long time. The response to my mind has been hysterical, and I believe that such a reaction was coordinated and hoped for... The"second wave"so called accomplished what the first wave fell short of... Complete compliance, but only through coercion and threat of jail and fines. Whoever thought we would one day need a passport to go to work?

 

[Deborah_]

There are several threads that deal with covid 19. And I've read many more on Facebook... Watched numerous videos on you tube... Read blogs, articles, and news reports from both sides of the political divide, but haven't actually come across any that answers my question. People are dying no doubt. Many are getting sick, certainly. But I gotta ask...
Is covid 19 a genuine real new virus that had been scientifically analysed, separated, isolated and actually fully identified as a new virus? Yes, we have lockdowns. Yes, we have masks. We have social distancing. We have politicians speaking authoratitively, and not so much, from all manner of directions informing us that we need to do this and that to stay alive... We have doctor's and experts contradicting one another on the extent, rates of contact, death, hospitalisation, and myriad methods of avoidance, but it's it real? What scientific proof do we have that the virus is real... Because none of the above, no matter how convincing, is proof.
Anyone?

What would count as "scientific proof"?

To start with, it was a suspicion by local doctors that there was a new respiratory infection that didn't fit the pattern of any previously known illness. From then on, it was a case of building up evidence by observation of cases. Tests couldn't be invented until the virus had been isolated and analysed in laboratories. But yes - it's definitely a new virus (in the sense of being new to humans)

There isn't much doubt that thousands of people (worldwide) have died from a new and mysterious illness. But it's possible to argue endlessly over its cause and origin. When it comes to the best method of dealing with it.. well, you have to start with educated guesses until you learn more about it. As our knowledge increases, we realise that some of the things we did at the beginning were wrong (or that we didn't do some things that we should have done). It's the same for every illness and disease. It was the same for HIV. Mortality rates are high at the beginning, but as we learn more about the illness and develop new strategies for dealing with it, the death rate comes down. (And the virus itself may become less virulent over time).

Published research is often contradictory, partly because studies may be done on different types of patients, or mistakes can be made in the design of a study. Usually, over time, a scientific consensus emerges; but we haven't yet had enough time for that because everything is being done in a rush. This explains a lot of the apparent contradictions.

So... what would count as "scientific proof"?

 

[Grailhunter]

Not all statistics are are in the sky fall category.
Here is a copy paste from a local source I thought out things in perspective...
If you think what is happening is based on good science and data and sound decision making from parliament ... you should probably watch these clips. If these members of parliament are challenging the decisions being made ... why aren’t you? If the world health organisation on the 3rd of August urged countries not to reimpose lockdowns ... why are a couple of ministers in Australia without the support of parliament doing so ? If the leading medical journals on the planet are releasing studies showing lockdowns and masks don’t work ... why are they being imposed ? Here are your stats for Victoria as of the 5th of August, 2020. How many Victorians have been tested so far? - 1,720,000 (million). How many have tested positive? - 13,035 How many Victorians have died so far? - 162 We have an estimated population of 6,430,000, so the current death rate is 0.0025% of the population. So in terms of Victorian positive tests, only 0.2% of the population has tested positive. And just 1.24% of the positive cases have resulted in deaths.” It doesn’t matter how thinly you slice something ... there are always 2 sides. If the only view you have had so far on this pandemic is via main stream media - I get how much fear you must be in. I never watch it but happened to be at a shop the other evening where it was playing. And omg I get it now. Fear - lies - doom and gloom. But that is not what the data shows. Countries that have not had a lockdown now have herd immunity and virtually zero daily deaths such as Sweden. Countries that have access to and have been using HCQ have distinctly fewer deaths. If what is happening is ok with you - enjoy your ignorant bliss. If you would like to go from fear to empowered and stand in your rights

I would add to the above. Indonesia has a population of 120 million. Of those, less than 6000 deaths. HCQ is available over the counter in Indonesia. So while I tend to agree that covid is a real thing, it isn't that far removed from other coronavirus strains that have been around for a long time. The response to my mind has been hysterical, and I believe that such a reaction was coordinated and hoped for... The"second wave"so called accomplished what the first wave fell short of... Complete compliance, but only through coercion and threat of jail and fines. Whoever thought we would one day need a passport to go to work?

I will say it again...Fear has its own penalties and hysteria numbs the mind. Stay away from the politics of it and the media hype, and the sky is falling statistics. Do smart things.

Some people like to be scared. Take my advise or do not. If you want to live in a hole the rest of your life....be my guest. But this is not the plague.

My area is not the norm, we have never paid much attention to Covid. Traffic is normal, most businesses are open, stores open, restaurants busy, bars, grocery stores are busy, churches open, parks are open, kids are playing, picnic and barbecues are happening, boating on the lakes and rivers. Block barbecues are popular and people are paying out of work teachers to teach groups of kids. In a hundred mile radius i know of about five death plus or minus. The kicker is that there is zero Covid cases in the hospital and they have only had one since this began and hydroxychloroquine and zithromax had him out in short order.

Now you are probably wondering how this can be. This area is called Mineral Area, because it has several historic mines, some closed, some open. Large piles of mine debris, some that can be seen for miles. In some cases they use this debris for landscaping. Now we know Covid does not like Zinc, and maybe other minerals. Now is this the reason? Maybe....This is a diversed area, retirement area, normal families, some close together some rural. The city has several large modern subdivisions and large apartment complexes, just normal stuff.

Now the mineral thing is why it is important to take your vitamins....multivitamins, some extra Zinc and vitamin D, and get some sunlight.

Mental health, we have been into this for a while and at least some of it is going to be around. We are human and everyone needs to be social, and that goes for the elderly also. Get outside, take walks with people, social distance, have a barbecue and socialize. Do not youth bomb people that are elderly, get them outside and social distance.

 

[Giuliano]

So those practicing doctors who treat patients every day aren't experts but Dr Fauci who hasn't treated a patient in over 40 years is an expert.
Uh ok then, my bad...

Communist science 101

6,000 practicing doctors that signed the petition for the use of HCQ = quacks.
Fauci = infallible... Oh i get it now

You are using the word "Communist" in a meaningless way.

Look, you are free to think what you like. I know I'm not an expert -- I'm not even a doctor, and I don't think I'm in a position to judge this either way. If you think you know enough to judge, go for it.

What I do wonder about is why these doctors were experimenting on their patients. In the US, there are protocols. Certain drugs are recommended for certain things. If someone wants to experiment, he's supposed to get permission. Then he does his study. Some studies are small; when you have small studies, you often get different results in them; but if a drug shows promise, then a larger study gets done. Different variables are also studied. A drug may be safe for most people but pose dangers for specific groups. Thus the VA study was quite interesting. Veterans had an unusually high mortality rate. In one way, it seemed to work; in another way, it seemed to kill certain people. Until science knows what's what, the small benefits of using HCQ probably do not outweigh the dangers posed to certain groups of people. When more is known, perhaps HCQ will be more widely recommended.

Covid-19: VA Study Points to Increased Mortality with Hydroxychloroquine | Physician's Weekly

The study authors noted that patients with more severe disease were more likely to be prescribed either HC alone or in combination with AZ.

The patients in all arms of the study were around age 70, more than half were black, and all had a BMI around 30 kg/m2.

“Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin,” they wrote. “Nevertheless, the increased risk of overall mortality in the hydroxychloroquine-only group persisted after adjusting for the propensity of being treated with the drug. That there was no increased risk of ventilation in the hydroxychloroquine-only group suggests that mortality in this group might be attributable to drug effects on or dysfunction in non-respiratory vital organ systems. Indeed, hydroxychloroquine use in Covid-19 patients has been associated with cardiac toxicity.”

To be honest with you, you seem to be the person insisting you know everything for sure. You have all the facts. You have the right to tell others what drugs they should prescribe. You have the right to tell Facebook what they should allow -- or even be forced to have on their site. You seem to have a strong authoritarian streak yourself, so why complain about Dr. Fauci? Are you envious of people with positions that grant them respectability? Is that what this is about? Well, if you want to think you're an expert and know it all, I can't stop you. I just find it a bit far out there.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Not all statistics are are in the sky fall category.
Here is a copy paste from a local source I thought out things in perspective...
If you think what is happening is based on good science and data and sound decision making from parliament ... you should probably watch these clips. If these members of parliament are challenging the decisions being made ... why aren’t you? If the world health organisation on the 3rd of August urged countries not to reimpose lockdowns ... why are a couple of ministers in Australia without the support of parliament doing so ? If the leading medical journals on the planet are releasing studies showing lockdowns and masks don’t work ... why are they being imposed ? Here are your stats for Victoria as of the 5th of August, 2020. How many Victorians have been tested so far? - 1,720,000 (million). How many have tested positive? - 13,035 How many Victorians have died so far? - 162 We have an estimated population of 6,430,000, so the current death rate is 0.0025% of the population. So in terms of Victorian positive tests, only 0.2% of the population has tested positive. And just 1.24% of the positive cases have resulted in deaths.” It doesn’t matter how thinly you slice something ... there are always 2 sides. If the only view you have had so far on this pandemic is via main stream media - I get how much fear you must be in. I never watch it but happened to be at a shop the other evening where it was playing. And omg I get it now. Fear - lies - doom and gloom. But that is not what the data shows. Countries that have not had a lockdown now have herd immunity and virtually zero daily deaths such as Sweden. Countries that have access to and have been using HCQ have distinctly fewer deaths. If what is happening is ok with you - enjoy your ignorant bliss. If you would like to go from fear to empowered and stand in your rights

I would add to the above. Indonesia has a population of 120 million. Of those, less than 6000 deaths. HCQ is available over the counter in Indonesia. So while I tend to agree that covid is a real thing, it isn't that far removed from other coronavirus strains that have been around for a long time. The response to my mind has been hysterical, and I believe that such a reaction was coordinated and hoped for... The"second wave"so called accomplished what the first wave fell short of... Complete compliance, but only through coercion and threat of jail and fines. Whoever thought we would one day need a passport to go to work?

Indonesia's population is actually 274 mil...
But what is the death rate for people under 70yo... 0.0000000000001%... LoL...

Six little blue winged kookaburras... Hehehe, were they in your backyard?
I love how their all facing the camera like their posing for the picture... LoL

 

[Cristo Rei]

My area is not the norm, we have never paid much attention to Covid. Traffic is normal, most businesses are open, stores open, restaurants busy, bars, grocery stores are busy, churches open, parks are open, kids are playing, picnic and barbecues are happening, boating on the lakes and rivers. Block barbecues are popular and people are paying out of work teachers to teach groups of kids.

Church, picnics, BBQs, kids running around, boating on lakes and rivers...... Oh mate, your in wonderland.
The city im in has been a dystopian nightmare for the last 5 months. I don't know one person that has had covid but everyone I know has been hurt by these totalitarian measures, and all for a virus that kills less than 1% of people infected at an average age of over 80yo

 

[Grailhunter]

Church, picnics, BBQs, kids running around, boating on lakes and rivers...... Oh mate, your in wonderland.
The city im in has been a dystopian nightmare for the last 5 months. I don't know one person that has had covid but everyone I know has been hurt by these totalitarian measures, and all for a virus that kills less than 1% of people infected at an average age of over 80yo

It is much easier to say shutdown than it is to make it happen to the extent that it would make a difference. Some countries and cities are different than others. Either way we are too far along for that to matter. Open it up and deal with it. Hold back the elderly for the vaccines. Hydroxychloroquine can be used as a preventative or a treatment and eventually herd immunity will catch up.