Death Penalty

[Raccoon1010]

The Human Rights Act formally abolished the death penalty in the UK. This means that a public official, including the police or courts, cannot execute someone or sentence them to death as punishment for something they have done. This applies in all circumstances, including during peacetime and times of conflict.

So should the USA follow?

 

[Enoch111]

So should the USA follow?

The death penalty should remain in place for heinous crimes. However, its administration in the USA has been a total disaster. So the laws would need to be revised properly to make this an effective deterrent to criminals. As to the UK, it has gone so far off the rails that one should not expect any sanity from their governments. They have been favoring criminals over victims for a long time. They have also become thoroughly Woke and thoroughly broke.

 

[Ziggy]

The only ones advocating for no death penalty are the criminals that don't want to face death for their crimes.
But they will be the first ones to lock you up in a prison for years for doing no crime.

Let the punishment fit the crime.
But there is no fair justice. No true judgement.
So either hang them all or let them all go free.
What alternative is there?

 

[Raccoon1010]

Well we have a percentage of people that face the death penalty that are actually innocent. Years later many have been killed and found to be innocent. Shouldn't the government be free of this innocent blood?

Executed But Possibly Innocent
There is no way to tell how many of the 1546 people executed since 1976 may also have been innocent. Courts do not generally entertain claims of innocence when the defendant is dead. Defense attorneys move on to other cases where clients’ lives can still be saved.

It is now broadly accepted that the judicial review provided to death-penalty cases in the United States has been inadequate to prevent the execution of at least some prisoners who were wrongly convicted and sentenced to death. Some cases with strong evidence of innocence include:

• Carlos DeLuna (Texas, convicted 1983, executed 1989)
• Ruben Cantu (Texas, convicted 1985, executed 1993)
• Larry Griffin (Missouri, convicted 1981, executed 1995)
• Joseph O’Dell (Virginia, convicted 1986, executed 1997)
• David Spence (Texas, convicted 1984, executed 1997)
• Leo Jones (Florida, convicted 1981, executed 1998)
• Gary Graham (Texas, convicted 1981, executed 2000)
• Claude Jones (Texas, convicted 1989, executed 2000)
• Cameron Todd Willingham (Texas, convicted 1992, executed 2004)
• Sedley Alley (Tennessee, convicted 1987, executed 2006)
• Troy Davis (Georiga, convicted 1991, executed 2011)
• Lester Bower (Texas, convicted 1984, executed 2015)
• Brian Terrell (Georgia, convicted 1995, executed 2015)
• Richard Masterson (Texas, convicted 2002, executed 2016)
• Robert Pruett (Texas, convicted 2002, executed 2017)
• Carlton Michael Gary (Georgia, convicted 1986, executed 2018)
• Domineque Ray (Alabama, convicted 1999; executed 2019)
• Larry Swearingen (Texas, convicted 2000, executed 2019)
• Walter Barton (Missouri, convicted 1993, executed 2020)
• Nathaniel Woods (Alabama, convicted 2005, executed 2020)

 

[Ziggy]

We're supposed to have a judicial system that does it's due dilligence to prove without a doubt a person's guilt or innocence.
Not unlike Jesus' day we have also false witnesses, or bad reports, misinformation, and sometimes expediency.
We have prejudices and bias' and people who hide their crimes by blaming others, bribery.. a whole host of evils just waiting to condemn the innocent.
On the other hand we have people who have no other purpose than go out and kill, steal and destroy other peoples lives and livlihoods.

In the OT God says to put the evil out from among you. In the NT Jesus says that he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It is imperitive that we have justices that are honorable and honest men to execute right judgment.
In Jesus day, he called the lawyers vipers and only executing justice for their own gain.

It's not a perfect world and there are no perfect answers.
Hugs

 

[Enoch111]

We're supposed to have a judicial system that does it's due dilligence to prove without a doubt a person's guilt or innocence.

Since the justice and law enforcement systems have both been thoroughly corrupted, we can no longer go by the old standards. Today the FBI are the thugs and so what should you expect?

 

[GEN2REV]

The death penalty should remain in place for heinous crimes. However, its administration in the USA has been a total disaster.

My sentiments exactly.

God instituted the Death Penalty. It is a good thing and it has a place in a well-functioning, moral, society.

Unfortunately, it has been so corrupted by politics and absolutely worthless Law Enforcement conduct that it is probably best to take it off the books as a legal judgment.

Shame, but when so many innocents can slip through the cracks of justice, due to sheer incompetence or unbridled bias, and be put to death, it's just become out of control.

 

[Scott Downey]

We're supposed to have a judicial system that does it's due dilligence to prove without a doubt a person's guilt or innocence.
Not unlike Jesus' day we have also false witnesses, or bad reports, misinformation, and sometimes expediency.
We have prejudices and bias' and people who hide their crimes by blaming others, bribery.. a whole host of evils just waiting to condemn the innocent.
On the other hand we have people who have no other purpose than go out and kill, steal and destroy other peoples lives and livlihoods.

In the OT God says to put the evil out from among you. In the NT Jesus says that he who is without sin cast the first stone.

It is imperitive that we have justices that are honorable and honest men to execute right judgment.
In Jesus day, he called the lawyers vipers and only executing justice for their own gain.

It's not a perfect world and there are no perfect answers.
Hugs

"In the OT God says to put the evil out from among you. In the NT Jesus says that he who is without sin cast the first stone."

This is also in the new testament abut casting out evil people from the church.
But we dont stone anyone like they did.

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

 

[Ziggy]

"In the OT God says to put the evil out from among you. In the NT Jesus says that he who is without sin cast the first stone."

This is also in the new testament abut casting out evil people from the church.
But we dont stone anyone like they did.

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

So when we come to the end of the book of Revelation, this is exactly what we find:

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I don't think we can keep the evils of the world out from among us.
The trick is, not bringing the evil in among us.
What I mean is, as we go through the threads, more often than not, the secular world is always up for discussion.
We talk about worldly things that are very controversial. Whether it be abortion, gun rights, politics, etc. We bring these things IN.
It is hard to stay seperated from the world because we do have to live in it, even though we don't partake of doing the same evil things the world does. It still has a way of hmm, getting under your skin and into your mind.
Even the church has become politically correct, in that we don't want to feel we insulted people or hurt their feelings.
So one bad apple, leads to a whole basket of bad apples, until we end up fighting amongst ourselves.
That's how subversion and evil works. It's a divider. Because divided we are weak, but united we are strong.

You notice how Jesus always led the people away from the city or the secular world?
He spoke to them in the wilderness, down by the sea, up on the mountain..
When he was in the city, the world on the outside would come to him and accuse him, try to find fault with him, seek to kill him.

The only way to put away the evil is to have no association with it whatsoever.
That's a hard thing to do. Not because we seek it, but because it seeks us.
And it's mission is to steal, kill and destroy our hope, our faith, our love, and most of all Our God.

The only way you can save people is to bring them out and away from "the city".
Out away from their peers, and the crowds, and the secular world.
But many don't want to leave, they like it there. They are in their comfort zone.
Like bringing a city dweller into the country and teaching them how to live off the land.
If there were programs to get the youths out of the cities...
Instead what they are doing is trying to herd people into them.

That's why they went after the boys and girls scouts and infected them with this new woke culture.
Because they knew parents would take their children out of them. Which forces them to remain in the city, basically.
Thereare a lot of things we could do differently and change the mind set of people. But there is so much opposition.
If you can take your kids camping or fishing or trail hiking.. just get them away for a change of scenery.
Parents have to be parents. And today that's the main thing that's lacking.

We have to get the city mentality out of the kids and bring them to the wilderness, the ocean and the mountains.
Where we can have peace and time to show them there is another way. The Only Way, and truth, and life.

Ramblin..
hugs

 

[Scott Downey]

So when we come to the end of the book of Revelation, this is exactly what we find:

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I don't think we can keep the evils of the world out from among us.
The trick is, not bringing the evil in among us.
What I mean is, as we go through the threads, more often than not, the secular world is always up for discussion.
We talk about worldly things that are very controversial. Whether it be abortion, gun rights, politics, etc. We bring these things IN.
It is hard to stay seperated from the world because we do have to live in it, even though we don't partake of doing the same evil things the world does. It still has a way of hmm, getting under your skin and into your mind.
Even the church has become politically correct, in that we don't want to feel we insulted people or hurt their feelings.
So one bad apple, leads to a whole basket of bad apples, until we end up fighting amongst ourselves.
That's how subversion and evil works. It's a divider. Because divided we are weak, but united we are strong.

You notice how Jesus always led the people away from the city or the secular world?
He spoke to them in the wilderness, down by the sea, up on the mountain..
When he was in the city, the world on the outside would come to him and accuse him, try to find fault with him, seek to kill him.

The only way to put away the evil is to have no association with it whatsoever.
That's a hard thing to do. Not because we seek it, but because it seeks us.
And it's mission is to steal, kill and destroy our hope, our faith, our love, and most of all Our God.

The only way you can save people is to bring them out and away from "the city".
Out away from their peers, and the crowds, and the secular world.
But many don't want to leave, they like it there. They are in their comfort zone.
Like bringing a city dweller into the country and teaching them how to live off the land.
If there were programs to get the youths out of the cities...
Instead what they are doing is trying to herd people into them.

That's why they went after the boys and girls scouts and infected them with this new woke culture.
Because they knew parents would take their children out of them. Which forces them to remain in the city, basically.
Thereare a lot of things we could do differently and change the mind set of people. But there is so much opposition.
If you can take your kids camping or fishing or trail hiking.. just get them away for a change of scenery.
Parents have to be parents. And today that's the main thing that's lacking.

We have to get the city mentality out of the kids and bring them to the wilderness, the ocean and the mountains.
Where we can have peace and time to show them there is another way. The Only Way, and truth, and life.

Ramblin..
hugs

Paul spoke it rightly, he said not to allow evil people to masquerade in your church as believers, and continue with the church fellowship, while they continue in their old way of life, not being converted. Not that we will have nothing to do with the people of the world, as we live in the world. Just that we are not to fellowship or have anything to do with (including sharing food) these evil people who claim to be believers while they continue to practice their sins such as sexually immorality, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner and the like which are all works of the flesh. We are to put them away from us who are falsely claiming to be believers who show by their deeds they are not believers but are still of this world.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 5
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Right before this 1 Corinthians 5, Paul compares this to leavening bread.
The evil ways and doings of people who name themselves a Christian are going to spread their evil pernicious ways into the body of the church corrupting it, in other places Paul compares this to gangrene infecting the whole body, and it also destroys the witness of the church compared to the world around it as being no different from unbelievers. If it does not ruin the church completely then it will cause considerable contention and dissention among church members which is also a work of the flesh. Look how many pastors have been caught in sexual immorality and greed. How does that not cause the enemies of Christ in the world to mock and rejoice over them.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Interesting that we are to be unleavened, leavening is an adulteration, an additive that comes from the world modifying the unleavened purity of the believers. Leaven in bread suits for the pleasure of the flesh, it is a sensual characteristic and represents the world.
KJ21
Be not deceived: “Evil associations corrupt good manners.”
ASV
Be not deceived: Evil companionships corrupt good morals.
AMP
Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.”
AMPC
Do not be so deceived and misled! Evil companionships (communion, associations) corrupt and deprave good manners and morals and character.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Paul spoke it rightly, he said not to allow evil people to masquerade in your church as believers, and continue with the church fellowship, while they continue in their old way of life, not being converted. Not that we will have nothing to do with the people of the world, as we live in the world. Just that we are not to fellowship or have anything to do with (including sharing food) these evil people who claim to be believers while they continue to practice their sins such as sexually immorality, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner and the like which are all works of the flesh. We are to put them away from us who are falsely claiming to be believers who show by their deeds they are not believers but are still of this world.

With those teachings, it's important to make a distinction. Jesus ate with sinners to share the Gospel of repentance. Paul's letters are against people that embrace evil and don't desire to repent.

 

[Scott Downey]

With those teachings, it's important to make a distinction. Jesus ate with sinners to share the Gospel of repentance. Paul's letters are against people that embrace evil and don't desire to repent.

It is all about the church being conformed to the image of Christ, and not to the ways of the world.
The church is not the world, the church is also not perfect.
But the message is clear, we are to have nothing to do with someone who claims to be a believer, is in the church fellowship, and persists in evil deeds.
The kinds of evil deeds described are pretty much ok with much of the world, or depending on circumstances are more or less normal worldly behaviors.

Same position to take is written here to reject such persons.
Titus 3
10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

Same thing happened with the sinful man who was sleeping with his own mother, they were to be put out of the fellowship of the church.

1 Corinthians 5 New King James Version

Immorality Defiles the Church
1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife!

2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us. 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

In scriptural terms leaven is evil.

 

[Ziggy]

Society is so entrenched in our daily lives. It's difficult to seperate from it.
Kids in school being taught all kinds of warped things.
Jobs requiring you to be woke to stay employed.
Tell a vision, is nothing but propaganda telling what to believe.
You literally have to go off grid and away from society to not be a part of the world.

Pro 22:3 A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.

It's going to get interesting for sure.
Hugs