DEMONS

[lforrest]

Do you also believe angels don't have bodies? Hebrews 13:2

 

[Mr.Bride]

Randor, step off the dogma train and actually think for once. My claim is that demons CANNOT be seen. Then you say I must not know anything because I've never seen one? Are you high? Drunk? I really hope so, because that is the dumbest argument I could ever think of. Maybe that was your goal? Just wow....

You've never seen one. Mr. Bride has never seen one. No one has seen one. Jesus did not even see them. Show me scripture that shows a demon that isn't possessing someone. Please, if you will. They are not physical, therefore they don't make shadows, wear hats, or anything. You cannot see them. It is impossible.

And did you just imply that I don't believe in God? Who do you think you are? Sure, some people having a spiritual encounter would be assured the existence of God, but I don't doubt the existence of God. Neither do the demons. Knowing God exists doesn't increase faith. Faith is not a knowledge.

@Mr. Bride

It is impossible that you see demons. Demons are not physical, and therefore your eyes and ears are useless. Jesus did not see demons. The demons that had locations were inside of another man's body. They don't have bodies of their own, so the only way to have physical dimensions are when they inhabit a body. I do not doubt that you heard things, but these were not from the demon themselves, if from a demon at all.

Tex, it's true that my eyes and ears are useless, but His eyes aren't. He who has ears let them hear.

When a little girl speaks with a voice sounding like a grown man, that'll quell all doubts. See with more than "your" eyes.

Answer this...When the house of The Lord is filled with a cloud is this not a manifestation of God? Can you not see God in a person? If you can then you can also see a demon. Well, not all can. You've proved that. I pray you receive eyes.

Mary K. Baxter/John Weisse *i think I spelled his name right. Look them up...

 

[RANDOR]

Randor, step off the dogma train and actually think for once. My claim is that demons CANNOT be seen. Then you say I must not know anything because I've never seen one? Are you high? Drunk? I really hope so, because that is the dumbest argument I could ever think of. Maybe that was your goal? Just wow....

You've never seen one. Mr. Bride has never seen one. No one has seen one. Jesus did not even see them. Show me scripture that shows a demon that isn't possessing someone. Please, if you will. They are not physical, therefore they don't make shadows, wear hats, or anything. You cannot see them. It is impossible.

And did you just imply that I don't believe in God? Who do you think you are? Sure, some people having a spiritual encounter would be assured the existence of God, but I don't doubt the existence of God. Neither do the demons. Knowing God exists doesn't increase faith. Faith is not a knowledge.

@Mr. Bride

It is impossible that you see demons. Demons are not physical, and therefore your eyes and ears are useless. Jesus did not see demons. The demons that had locations were inside of another man's body. They don't have bodies of their own, so the only way to have physical dimensions are when they inhabit a body. I do not doubt that you heard things, but these were not from the demon themselves, if from a demon at all.

WOW..................I'm gettin to think your the one still on the milk......you don't get out much do you?
Tex...they can be seen....and i aint talkin about television....I'm talkin up close and personal...real close........inches away.....and guess what tex......they interact with you. They understand you. And get this....who would of thought.....THEY HATE YOUR VERY BEING!!!!!!!!!! but they love what your sayin.......about how they can't be seen. Tex....get real close to God....I mean realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll close.....God will show you many things which you probably don't believe in at this time in your life.
satan wants you to keep believing the way you are believing.....

And you are always wanting a scripture.......that's the WAY jw's talk..........
Do you need a scripture for everything in life?
Your driving down the road....gee.....can I look at that billboard...is there a scritpure that sayzzz i can.....what will i eat tonight...let me check the scriptures.
Did the ones Jesus healed....just run off quoting scriptures?
No! they went to tell what Jesus did for them.

And Paul.....did he quote scriptures? No.....it's what he said which became what we know as scriptures.

There is more to God WAY MORE...than scriptures.

Oh and by the way....I am sorry if there was not a scripture in the great book that mentioned that you can see principalties....but is there? If God wrote down everyting ...the book would be as big as the universe.....and your life span wouldn't be long enough to read it.

 

[Tex]

Do you also believe angels don't have bodies? Hebrews 13:2

Angels do not have bodies either. You take the passage too materialistically. Angels act in the same way demons do, by communicating directly to the intellect and directly to the will. They have no need for a means of communication (such as light or sound waves). They simply make you understand. "Entertaining angels", therefore, isn't about the hospitality we give them, but about their joy in our hospitality to strangers.

WOW..................I'm gettin to think your the one still on the milk......you don't get out much do you?
Tex...they can be seen....and i aint talkin about television....I'm talkin up close and personal...real close........inches away.....and guess what tex......they interact with you. They understand you. And get this....who would of thought.....THEY HATE YOUR VERY BEING!!!!!!!!!! but they love what your sayin.......about how they can't be seen. Tex....get real close to God....I mean realllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll close.....God will show you many things which you probably don't believe in at this time in your life.
satan wants you to keep believing the way you are believing.....

And you are always wanting a scripture.......that's the WAY jw's talk..........
Do you need a scripture for everything in life?
Your driving down the road....gee.....can I look at that billboard...is there a scritpure that sayzzz i can.....what will i eat tonight...let me check the scriptures.
Did the ones Jesus healed....just run off quoting scriptures?
No! they went to tell what Jesus did for them.

And Paul.....did he quote scriptures? No.....it's what he said which became what we know as scriptures.

There is more to God WAY MORE...than scriptures.

Oh and by the way....I am sorry if there was not a scripture in the great book that mentioned that you can see principalties....but is there? If God wrote down everyting ...the book would be as big as the universe.....and your life span wouldn't be long enough to read it.

I have attempted logical arguments, which you ignore. I have attempted biblical arguments, which you ignore (and more blatantly). How can I combat pigheaded emotion? What tool do I have? When logos fails to pierce, to what shall I turn? I do not believe there is another tool, but that the only solution is to halt correcting the fool, or he will hate me.

There is so much bias within you, Randor. You tell me "satan wants you to keep believing the way you're believing", but what about you? Perhaps the reverse is true instead. You seem to totally ignore my statements, my challenges, everything. What more can I do? I have done my part. The rest is left to Randor. Perhaps you are not meant to understand yet? Perhaps you are never meant to understand. Perhaps you do not have the capacity. Nevertheless, the Lord bless you and keep you.

Tex, it's true that my eyes and ears are useless, but His eyes aren't. He who has ears let them hear.

When a little girl speaks with a voice sounding like a grown man, that'll quell all doubts. See with more than "your" eyes.

Answer this...When the house of The Lord is filled with a cloud is this not a manifestation of God? Can you not see God in a person? If you can then you can also see a demon. Well, not all can. You've proved that. I pray you receive eyes.

Mary K. Baxter/John Weisse *i think I spelled his name right. Look them up...

This is much more the response I have been looking for. When the house of the Lord is filled with a cloud, you do see something, yes. However, you do not see God. You see a cloud. You understand that you are in the presence of God, but do not give too much credit to your sight.

 

[RANDOR]

Angels do not have bodies either. You take the passage too materialistically. Angels act in the same way demons do, by communicating directly to the intellect and directly to the will. They have no need for a means of communication (such as light or sound waves). They simply make you understand. "Entertaining angels", therefore, isn't about the hospitality we give them, but about their joy in our hospitality to strangers.

Hey Tex...that was some nice rebukin ya did towards me.....thanks.
But.....if YOU haven't seen a angel or demon....that does not mean others haven't or can't see them.
Oh----the stories i could tell you.
But what I have told you has landed on soil beneath 60 feet of concrete. So...i'll pass on telling you the hundreds of testimonies.

 

[lforrest]

Angels do not have bodies either. You take the passage too materialistically. Angels act in the same way demons do, by communicating directly to the intellect and directly to the will. They have no need for a means of communication (such as light or sound waves). They simply make you understand. "Entertaining angels", therefore, isn't about the hospitality we give them, but about their joy in our hospitality to strangers.

Genesis 19 tells of two angels who visited Lot, but the people of Sodom didn't recognize them as such.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Genesis 19 tells of two angels who visited Lot, but the people of Sodom didn't recognize them as such.

Nor the angels that visited Abraham, that's true. I guess they came a callin' without their wings and halos.

 

[Tex]

Genesis 19 tells of two angels who visited Lot, but the people of Sodom didn't recognize them as such.

That doesn't change the fact that angels do not have bodies. The bible is not here to teach metaphysics. There were angels there, they were not physically present. The two men were human beings in a sort of "possession", like that of the demons, although obviously not negative.

Nor the angels that visited Abraham, that's true. I guess they came a callin' without their wings and halos.

The angels that visited Abraham are, at least by eisegesis, pre-incarnate Jesus. "Angel" would not be accurate, "the angel of the Lord" would be a term of it's own.

 

[lforrest]

That doesn't change the fact that angels do not have bodies. The bible is not here to teach metaphysics. There were angels there, they were not physically present. The two men were human beings in a sort of "possession", like that of the demons, although obviously not negative.

You speak authoritatively as though you know for sure. What is the origin for these teachings?

 

[RANDOR]

Tex, on 30 Jul 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

That doesn't change the fact that angels do not have bodies. The bible is not here to teach metaphysics. There were angels there, they were not physically present. The two men were human beings in a sort of "possession", like that of the demons, although obviously not negative.

From Forrest to Tex::::::You speak authoritatively as though you know for sure. What is the origin for these teachings?

Yep...he sounds good....thank God......I'm not knew to Christianity.....because...I might believe him about our adversary.
He doesn't believe me...maybe one day....he will be shown......boy.........I sure hope he can handle it if God decides to widen his eyes.

Ya know.......the pee your pants thing

 

[Tex]

@RANDOR

I would ask you not to reply to any of my posts any more. You aren't debating anything, you're just telling me I'm wrong. That's not debate. Frankly, it's infuriating. When I make a claim you believe is wrong, show me why it's wrong. What you're doing is no help to anyone. My claim is that no one sees demons, but that you (and many others) only think you see them, when you're truly making sense of inkblots (Rorschach). I do not doubt you've seen inkblots in life that look a lot like demons. However, I think you're thinking about your experience in the wrong way.

Now debate me if you think I'm wrong. Keep quiet if you have nothing intelligent to say.

@Iforrest

Thank you for actually making a rational challenge.

There are three possible real arguments: logical, emotional, and charasmatic ("Trust me, I'm an expert" argument or someone/thing else is an expert, trust them). My arguments thus far have been logical (demons are immaterial, you cannot see the immaterial, therefore you cannot see demons)(angels are immaterial, you cannot see the immaterial, therefore you cannot see angels). You're questioning my first premises (demons are immaterial)(angels are immaterial) and asking for authorities other than my own reasoning. First and foremost is the bible. Below are a few of the passages.

Hebrews 1:14
Are they (*angels) not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?
Luke 24:39
See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
Colossians 1:16
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.

Angels, therefore, are immaterial. Demons are also rational spirits, exactly like the angels, and therefore are also immaterial.

Our eyes only see material things. I could probably use scripture to show you this too, but I'm going to assume it's unnecessary. Light must bounce off something, and our eyes pick up that light. Our brain computes the light.

So, why is everyone so suprized when I say that you can't "see" demons or angels?

 

[RANDOR]

Inkblots...now that's funny....all yav done is come down on me because I've seen your adversary.....are ya jealous?
Trust...he does however love what your sayin.....keep letting him speak for ya.
Oh.and by the way...I've told ya many times why your wrong.....but you probably need a verse.....hmmmmm the people the pig dude told didn't say......Jesus can't do that..(heal)....give us a verse.....no..................they believed.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

That doesn't change the fact that angels do not have bodies. The bible is not here to teach metaphysics. There were angels there, they were not physically present. The two men were human beings in a sort of "possession", like that of the demons, although obviously not negative.


The angels that visited Abraham are, at least by eisegesis, pre-incarnate Jesus. "Angel" would not be accurate, "the angel of the Lord" would be a term of it's own.

Wow, two Jesus's appearing at the same time? Jumpin' Jehosaphat! That's going to completely cast into upheaval all theological studies on the nature of God for centuries. You need to rush these findings to Dallas Theological Seminary forthwith. I'll keep the cable news on and await reports of this revolutionary discovery of yours. I promise I won't try to steal the credit, I promise. It's all yours!

Go!

Now!!

Why are you still staring at your computer screen??

 

[Tex]

Wow, two Jesus's appearing at the same time? Jumpin' Jehosaphat! That's going to completely cast into upheaval all theological studies on the nature of God for centuries. You need to rush these findings to Dallas Theological Seminary forthwith. I'll keep the cable news on and await reports of this revolutionary discovery of yours. I promise I won't try to steal the credit, I promise. It's all yours!

Go!

Now!!

Why are you still staring at your computer screen??

God is three Persons, and you're objecting to Jesus appearing within multiple bodies simultaneously? I don't believe that's what happened, but I definitely don't rule it out.

Also, the angels appearing to Lot are not the same angels that appeared to Abraham and Sarah in the different setting. The angels with Lot are two separate angels, not Jesus. When the three angels show up to Abraham, it is the second person of the Trinity to whom he speaks.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

God is three Persons, and you're objecting to Jesus appearing within multiple bodies simultaneously? I don't believe that's what happened, but I definitely don't rule it out.

Also, the angels appearing to Lot are not the same angels that appeared to Abraham and Sarah in the different setting. The angels with Lot are two separate angels, not Jesus. When the three angels show up to Abraham, it is the second person of the Trinity to whom he speaks.

So three Jesus's showed up? Why not four, or five, or ten?

It seems to me that you'll stretch credulity to keep intact your misguided notion that angels can never be physical beings capable of eating. Never mind that the Bible records that men ate the food of angels (Psalm 78:25) you'll preserve your error at any cost, even to the point of claiming the appearance of multiple Jesus's. I'm beginning to feel like I'm talking to a Mormon here.

 

[RANDOR]

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quik!!!! look out the window! someone call the police!

That was a phone call to my neighbor when she looked out the window and saw a huge man pushin 9 feet tall walking beside my wife one late afternoon as she was running the park.
Hmmmmmm...wonder what all that was about?

I could go on and on and on...actually I wrote a book about these things..(TRUE STORIES)...but I'm not wastin my time on Tex.....he can believe what he wants.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quik!!!! look out the window! someone call the police!

That was a phone call to my neighbor when she looked out the window and saw a huge man pushin 9 feet tall walking beside my wife one late afternoon as she was running the park.
Hmmmmmm...wonder what all that was about?

I could go on and on and on...actually I wrote a book about these things..(TRUE STORIES)...but I'm not wastin my time on Tex.....he can believe what he wants.

I looked out of my window and saw 5 Jesus's singing in a quintet, because you know, 3 is just so trio. I got a friend who says he saw 6 Jesus's rowing on the canoe team with perfectly synchronized strokes, but I don't know if I believe it because the story gets bigger with every telling. (last time it was just 4)

 

[lforrest]

@RANDOR

I would ask you not to reply to any of my posts any more. You aren't debating anything, you're just telling me I'm wrong. That's not debate. Frankly, it's infuriating. When I make a claim you believe is wrong, show me why it's wrong. What you're doing is no help to anyone. My claim is that no one sees demons, but that you (and many others) only think you see them, when you're truly making sense of inkblots (Rorschach). I do not doubt you've seen inkblots in life that look a lot like demons. However, I think you're thinking about your experience in the wrong way.

Now debate me if you think I'm wrong. Keep quiet if you have nothing intelligent to say.

@Iforrest

Thank you for actually making a rational challenge.

There are three possible real arguments: logical, emotional, and charasmatic ("Trust me, I'm an expert" argument or someone/thing else is an expert, trust them). My arguments thus far have been logical (demons are immaterial, you cannot see the immaterial, therefore you cannot see demons)(angels are immaterial, you cannot see the immaterial, therefore you cannot see angels). You're questioning my first premises (demons are immaterial)(angels are immaterial) and asking for authorities other than my own reasoning. First and foremost is the bible. Below are a few of the passages.

Angels, therefore, are immaterial. Demons are also rational spirits, exactly like the angels, and therefore are also immaterial.

Our eyes only see material things. I could probably use scripture to show you this too, but I'm going to assume it's unnecessary. Light must bounce off something, and our eyes pick up that light. Our brain computes the light.

So, why is everyone so suprized when I say that you can't "see" demons or angels?

There are instances where some claim to see an angel and others not, though they both look at the same place. Then there are instances where an angel is said to handle objects.

I think it is more reasonable to believe spirits have spiritual bodies, and are capable of manifesting in our physical world at will.

 

[aspen]

All i know is Tex is wrong

 

[Mr.Bride]

All i know is Tex is wrong

Absolutely...