DEMONS

[Bronzesnake]

Hope it's ok for the newbie to comment here.
I'd like to start out by stating that I treat everyone with respect, even those who mock and take cheap shots. Nobody learns anything from trying to be right.

So, here's one of my experiences.

My wife and I had gone to bed one evening, and I fell asleep, and started having terrifying dreams all night.
At one point, the nightmare was so real, and so evil that I was actually able to force myself to wake up. I was experiencing the most terrifying feeling of my life, and as I woke up I shot up into a sitting position, and saw a grey mist, about a foot or so wide, and a little longer. It had shot away from my face to our bedroom wall, and up our nine foot walls into the ceiling and into our attic.

I was horrified, and amazed all at once.
I guess you could say I had a horrible nightmare, and I couldn't argue that, except that at the exact same time as I shot up to a sitting position, my wife had also done so. As soon as the mist had disappeared into our ceiling, I turned to look at my wife to ask her if she had seen anything? Well. my wife described having the most horrifying nightmare of her life, and waking up in a sitting position. I didn't want to pollute my wife's experience, or effect what she saw by telling her what I had just seen, and so I simply asked her what she just experienced, and she described my experience exactly.

That kept us awake for several months. We both believe strongly that a demonic entity was attempting to do evil work on us, and we believe we were woken up by our Lord, so whatever that creature was attempting to do was interfered with.
We were not Christians back then, over twenty eight years ago, but I can tell you this, that experience was real, and it put us both on a path which eventually lead straight to Jesus.

John

 

[Madad21]

@RANDOR

I would ask you not to reply to any of my posts any more. You aren't debating anything, you're just telling me I'm wrong. That's not debate. Frankly, it's infuriating. When I make a claim you believe is wrong, show me why it's wrong. What you're doing is no help to anyone. My claim is that no one sees demons, but that you (and many others) only think you see them, when you're truly making sense of inkblots (Rorschach). I do not doubt you've seen inkblots in life that look a lot like demons. However, I think you're thinking about your experience in the wrong way.

Now debate me if you think I'm wrong. Keep quiet if you have nothing intelligent to say.

yuck!..... :huh:

Here is an experience I had recently,

Have any of you read the account of Howard Pittman and his experience with demons http://www.ubm1.org/demons-pittman.pdf
Amazing stuff and a big eye opener.

While I was reading this one night there was a lot of unnecessary noise going on around me. I was alone on duty at the Mack truck workshop it was about 3ish in the morning, all this noise started coming from a truck resting behind me. This isnt unusual, except for the fact that the truck had been there all day, it had been cold for ages so the only noise that should come from it would be the odd release of hydraulic pressure from the brakes (if Im not mistaken that where that noise comes from). So that truck like all the others should only give a single noise every now and then, but as I read this testimony the truck which had no trailer was constantly ticking and hissing.
I couldn't concentrate on what I was reading because it just got worse and worse, eventually I had a guts full and walked over to the truck because I thought that it was strange (Ive been working there 2 years now, this has never happened before not even in trucks that were still hot or warm) I looked around the truck and couldn't work it out. I decided to put all my weight on the back of the truck (had no trailer) and the truck began to stop making noise, it took all my body weight 130kg or 286LB at the time to stop the noise.
The noise stopped an I went back to reading, but before I could get a few more lines in the noise had built back up to full force. Im talking real noisy and at that time in the morning in an empty industrial area it became beyond a distraction. My thoughts turned to what I was reading and I felt prompted to pray, I really didnt relate in my mind that what was going on had anything to do with what I was doing (it even sounds ludicrous to me now). but none the less among all the noise I felt prompted to pray, so I put my head down and asked God that if the trucks noise has anything to do with a spirit or spirits not wanting me to be able to concentrate and read Mr Pittmans testimony if He could please protect me and make the noise stop. Straight away all the noise stopped, just like that, all that hissing and creaking just straight out stopped. I decided in my heart to not be alarmed and just gave thanks to God as I knew I shouldnt expect anything less. I had no rebuke in my heart as I continued to read Mr Pittmans accounts and the truck remained totally silent.

In the day light before the next guard came to relieve me I had packed up all my gear and wondered over to the noisy truck, I thought about how when I sat on it the noise began to go quiet. I pushed down on the back again and noticed as I took my weight off that it would give a little creak like the suspension releasing a little, so I pulled up on the tail gate as strongly as I could (I have been a powerlifter for years so I was really pulling hard) the truck began to make a few of the noises I was hearing in the small hours of that morning.
I was astonished as I drove home I thought about it, It took 130kg man with all my weight to only just stop the noise in the suspension and when I pull up on it like doing a "deadlift" it only just made the same noises. I realized that what ever it was that was causing the noise must have been incredibly strong and working the back of that truck weighing a fair few tons to make so much noise. The thought made my skin crawl.

A little time later I asked the mechanics weather the change in temp though the night might cause that truck to get noisy in the suspension then suddenly stop, they assured me that that might happen if the truck had not long been used and had a trailer had been on it, but if the truck had been sitting even a couple of hours little-lone all day before I arrived it would have stopped hours earlier. I didnt tell them what happened I just asked them in a by the way manor as not to sound crazy.

I have experienced a few different things in my life and I know for certain as a child I had experienced something enter my body one night, it was terrifying. As a young teen I had a lot of frightening experiences particularly in one house we used to live in and again as an adult in another house. My son has been attacked once when he was just a toddler and he used to talk to "The Man" in front of his bedroom wardrobe in the dark in the small hours of the morning, I would wake up to him talking to someone and get up to find him sitting in front of his wardrobe with the doors open talking to someone. Hes 19 now and doesn't remember any of it.

Demons are real and not to be mucked around with, if we knew how bad our situation was we would be in constant prayer.

 

[shturt678s]

Brother Tex, thank you for caring!

You were suppose to have that 'infuriating spirit' crucified at the Cross, or being crucified...it's fed by demons for sure not only with you, but all of us, ie, not a put down, only a word of encouragement.

Posters have differing personalities and getting along with one another can be more fun than only looking at the quills that we alllll have my brother.

Old Jack that just allowed our Lord to remove another quill from me...thank you Jesus!

 

[Madad21]

Hope it's ok for the newbie to comment here.
I'd like to start out by stating that I treat everyone with respect, even those who mock and take cheap shots. Nobody learns anything from trying to be right.

So, here's one of my experiences.

My wife and I had gone to bed one evening, and I fell asleep, and started having terrifying dreams all night.
At one point, the nightmare was so real, and so evil that I was actually able to force myself to wake up. I was experiencing the most terrifying feeling of my life, and as I woke up I shot up into a sitting position, and saw a grey mist, about a foot or so wide, and a little longer. It had shot away from my face to our bedroom wall, and up our nine foot walls into the ceiling and into our attic.

I was horrified, and amazed all at once.
I guess you could say I had a horrible nightmare, and I couldn't argue that, except that at the exact same time as I shot up to a sitting position, my wife had also done so. As soon as the mist had disappeared into our ceiling, I turned to look at my wife to ask her if she had seen anything? Well. my wife described having the most horrifying nightmare of her life, and waking up in a sitting position. I didn't want to pollute my wife's experience, or effect what she saw by telling her what I had just seen, and so I simply asked her what she just experienced, and she described my experience exactly.

That kept us awake for several months. We both believe strongly that a demonic entity was attempting to do evil work on us, and we believe we were woken up by our Lord, so whatever that creature was attempting to do was interfered with.
We were not Christians back then, over twenty eight years ago, but I can tell you this, that experience was real, and it put us both on a path which eventually lead straight to Jesus.

John

Scary bro Im glad you were woken up, Praise God

 

[RANDOR]

Yep.....satan doesn't like it one bit.....when one gets closer to God......and I truly believe he knows which ones are going to come to Christ...for he hits them the hardest.....always messin with us.........but when we come to know God more....we know how to battle against this idiot.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Hope it's ok for the newbie to comment here.
I'd like to start out by stating that I treat everyone with respect, even those who mock and take cheap shots. Nobody learns anything from trying to be right.

So, here's one of my experiences.

My wife and I had gone to bed one evening, and I fell asleep, and started having terrifying dreams all night.
At one point, the nightmare was so real, and so evil that I was actually able to force myself to wake up. I was experiencing the most terrifying feeling of my life, and as I woke up I shot up into a sitting position, and saw a grey mist, about a foot or so wide, and a little longer. It had shot away from my face to our bedroom wall, and up our nine foot walls into the ceiling and into our attic.

I was horrified, and amazed all at once.
I guess you could say I had a horrible nightmare, and I couldn't argue that, except that at the exact same time as I shot up to a sitting position, my wife had also done so. As soon as the mist had disappeared into our ceiling, I turned to look at my wife to ask her if she had seen anything? Well. my wife described having the most horrifying nightmare of her life, and waking up in a sitting position. I didn't want to pollute my wife's experience, or effect what she saw by telling her what I had just seen, and so I simply asked her what she just experienced, and she described my experience exactly.

That kept us awake for several months. We both believe strongly that a demonic entity was attempting to do evil work on us, and we believe we were woken up by our Lord, so whatever that creature was attempting to do was interfered with.
We were not Christians back then, over twenty eight years ago, but I can tell you this, that experience was real, and it put us both on a path which eventually lead straight to Jesus.

John

At times when I've been very strong in my faith, praying, worship, reading scripture, etc is when I experience attacks like this when I sleep. It's scary at the time, but I've learned to take it as encouragement because I'm getting somebody's attention. I would wake up the next morning feeling a deep peace.

 

[Tex]

So three Jesus's showed up? Why not four, or five, or ten?

It seems to me that you'll stretch credulity to keep intact your misguided notion that angels can never be physical beings capable of eating. Never mind that the Bible records that men ate the food of angels (Psalm 78:25) you'll preserve your error at any cost, even to the point of claiming the appearance of multiple Jesus's. I'm beginning to feel like I'm talking to a Mormon here.

I'm not mormon. "Pre-incarnate Christ" is not new. Neither is St. Thomas Aquinas, who argues angels do not have bodies here. I disagree with article 2, reply to objection 1 and reply to objection 3. "Intellectual vision" is another means of communication that does not require means, such as light or sound. Therefore, angels have no need for bodies. Ever. And knowing what we do today, most scholars have disregarded any "angels compress air" theory of appearance.

Finally, read Exodus 24 and tell me that the 2nd person of the Trinity has not brought his people to salvation from the begining of creation. Your ignorance as a Romanist astounds me.

There are instances where some claim to see an angel and others not, though they both look at the same place. Then there are instances where an angel is said to handle objects.

I think it is more reasonable to believe spirits have spiritual bodies, and are capable of manifesting in our physical world at will.

"Spiritual body" is an oxymoron. Matthew 10:28, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." If angels have bodies, I can kill them. That's just not how things work.

All i know is Tex is wrong

Prove it. I'll give you a dollar.

 

[justaname]

St. Anthony of Egypt...Early Church Father

I have battled demons myself...

 

[RANDOR]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...never seen those kind of demons before.........probably the artist hasn't seen a true demon his self

 

[Madad21]

St. Anthony of Egypt...Early Church Father

I have battled demons myself...

I love these old paintings so much going on.
notice how each demon looks different.
Curious the one clawing at his head and another pulls him down from his neck making him hunch over.
I wonder why hes floating in mid air?

 

[Enquirer]

Personally never seen a demon ... but my second oldest brother has and it scared him stiff literally.
My oldest brother used to dabble very heavily in witchcraft and one night while he was calling up spirits with his candles
and whatever else he was doing, a huge ball of flame which looked like an eye appeared in the bedroom where my
second oldest brother was lying in bed.
He said that he suddenly smelt a horrible stink and something like a hand move under the sheets and over his body.
This woke him up and there at the foot of the bed was this fiery flaming eye.
he said that he couldn't move and was frozen stiff.
He tried calling out for help but his mouth was frozen.
Later on after the "eye" disappeared he called my oldest brother and told him what happened.
My oldest brother just shrugged.

 

[Bronzesnake]

Why does anyone think angels don't have bodies, when the Bible is full of angels interacting with man?
I hope Jesus had a body. If angels have no bodies, then how did they have children with human women?

Anyway...if there are any scriptures which prove angels have no bodies, I would love to see them.

John

 

[Madad21]

Why does anyone think angels don't have bodies, when the Bible is full of angels interacting with man?
I hope Jesus had a body. If angels have no bodies, then how did they have children with human women?

Anyway...if there are any scriptures which prove angels have no bodies, I would love to see them.

John

Interesting

Personally Ive never given it much thought I just figured that an angel while in heaven is spirit, but when hes on earth he can be both spirit or take up a body, maybe depending on what hes doing.
There probably isn't any scripture backing that up though.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Why does anyone think angels don't have bodies, when the Bible is full of angels interacting with man?
I hope Jesus had a body. If angels have no bodies, then how did they have children with human women?

Anyway...if there are any scriptures which prove angels have no bodies, I would love to see them.

John

In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”
(Hebrews 1:7)

There's your verse. You're now compelled to believe that angels are just spirits!

Actually I agree with you that angels have bodies. I'm just lampooning the idea that "find me a scripture that says" proves anything. In fact, many doctrinal errors spring from the isolation of single texts of scripture. In fact, the Bible says many things about angels, and the tradition of angels in the Christian Church and the study of them is ancient. St. Thomas Aquinas devoted a lot of time to the study of angels and his findings are a fascinating read.

In fact, when imagining 7th dimensional beings, we naturally form images of disembodied spirits, being stuck in the incarnate/un-incarnate either or mindset. It's truly an error because creation, being modeled after heaven, indicates that heaven is indeed a very physical place and the incarnate Son of God, in whom the godhead rests bodily (Col 2:9), forever dons flesh and blood in eternal union with mankind.

Angels are spirits, but they're not spirits only.

 

[justaname]

In speaking of the angels he says,

“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”
(Hebrews 1:7)

There's your verse. You're now compelled to believe that angels are just spirits!

Actually I agree with you that angels have bodies. I'm just lampooning the idea that "find me a scripture that says" proves anything. In fact, many doctrinal errors spring from the isolation of single texts of scripture. In fact, the Bible says many things about angels, and the tradition of angels in the Christian Church and the study of them is ancient. St. Thomas Aquinas devoted a lot of time to the study of angels and his findings are a fascinating read.

In fact, when imagining 7th dimensional beings, we naturally form images of disembodied spirits, being stuck in the incarnate/un-incarnate either or mindset. It's truly an error because creation, being modeled after heaven, indicates that heaven is indeed a very physical place and the incarnate Son of God, in whom the godhead rests bodily (Col 2:9), forever dons flesh and blood in eternal union with mankind.

Angels are spirits, but they're not spirits only.

I also believe angels can don bodies when interacting in our realm. The angels that met with Abraham ate food. But our Lord is flesh and bone, most likely not flesh and blood.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I also believe angels can don bodies when interacting in our realm. The angels that met with Abraham ate food. But our Lord is flesh and bone, most likely not flesh and blood.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

1 Corinthians 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

There's a member here who thinks those were 3 Jesus's. Too hilarious!

But the Lord is indeed flesh and blood and one of the quickest ways to undermine the gospels is to deny that Jesus is eternally incarnate, our brother in every way.

The verse you quoted is very often misquoted to mean something that it doesn't. In typical Hebrew idiom fashion, the same concept is said in two different ways so as to avoid all confusion. The flesh and blood indicated that inherits eternal life is incorruptible as explained in verse 42. Later Adam is given as an example of our glorified bodies, physical as we are, but not corrupted by sin and death, a living being, a life giving spirit. (vs 45)

Heaven is a very physical place. I spoke about this more in depth here: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20441-naked-in-heaven/

 

[justaname]

There's a member here who thinks those were 3 Jesus's. Too hilarious!

But the Lord is indeed flesh and blood and one of the quickest ways to undermine the gospels is to deny that Jesus is eternally incarnate, our brother in every way.

The verse you quoted is very often misquoted to mean something that it doesn't. In typical Hebrew idiom fashion, the same concept is said in two different ways so as to avoid all confusion. The flesh and blood indicated that inherits eternal life is incorruptible as explained in verse 42. Later Adam is given as an example of our glorified bodies, physical as we are, but not corrupted by sin and death, a living being, a life giving spirit. (vs 45)

Heaven is a very physical place. I spoke about this more in depth here: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/20441-naked-in-heaven/

I concur with your sentiments of undermining the gospels, yet my statements align with the scriptures as posted. To say Jesus is currently flesh and bone only does not deny His eternal incarnation.

I will be clear in stating Jesus surely was flesh and blood in His condition before His death.

You can only speculate as to the condition of the body after death, so to state more than what Jesus states is to place words into His mouth. Scripture is clear, you are speculating.

Lets look to what scripture states...

The Resurrection Body
35But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36Fool! What you sow will not come to life unless it dies. 37And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare seed – perhaps of wheat or something else. 38But God gives it a body just as he planned, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. 39All flesh is not the same: People have one flesh, animals have another, birds and fish another. 40And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. The glory of the heavenly body is one sort and the earthly another. 41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon and another glory of the stars, for star differs from star in glory.

42It is the same with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable.43It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living person”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.46However, the spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust, and like the one from heaven, so too those who are heavenly. 49And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, let us also bear the image of the man of heaven.

50Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed – 52in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen,
“Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
55“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ! 58So then, dear brothers and sisters, be firm. Do not be moved! Always be outstanding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.


Now to your argument...are you convinced our Lord is still of an earthly or natural body?

Looking to verse 36 and 37 it is clear that which dies does not inherit the kingdom. There are earthly bodies and heavenly bodies. We do not posses heavenly bodies in our earthly state. We are not sowing the body to be, it is a different body that will be. Jesus already posses that body to be, which is different than the body He bore that was dishonored on a tree!

Yes He bore the corruptible, and imputed our sin to it, and He is now raised in glory! This is the beauty of the resurrection; we will no longer posses the corruptible body of sin, for Jesus removed it as far as the east is from the west.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:14-17)



As I said, undermining the incarnation of Christ is undermining the gospel itself, for Jesus bears both flesh and blood just like those he has redeemed which makes him the perfect high priest according to the order of Melchizedek. He is one of us, therefore qualified to intercede for us beyond all dispute.

 

[justaname]

Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:14-17)



As I said, undermining the incarnation of Christ is undermining the gospel itself, for Jesus bears both flesh and blood just like those he has redeemed which makes him the perfect high priest according to the order of Melchizedek. He is one of us, therefore qualified to intercede for us beyond all dispute.

I will be clear a second time in stating Jesus surely was flesh and blood in His condition before His death.

This was never denied...this is my attempt to stop this straw-man from evolving into the scare crow from the Wizard of Oz...

Perhaps you need to read my response post #57...

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I will be clear a second time in stating Jesus surely was flesh and blood in His condition before His death.

This was never denied...this is my attempt to stop this straw-man from evolving into the scare crow from the Wizard of Oz...

Perhaps you need to read my response post #57...

You're so blinded by your ideology you're not seeing what it is here that the Bible has to teach you. Jesus is and continues to be our high priest with a ceaseless ministry of intercession. He is fit for this role because he is, in all things, like his brethren including flesh and blood. It's all right there in the scripture passage I quoted whether you want to see it or not.