Shalom, daq.
You said...
I don't judge the person; I judge the message. I count you as a brother and will continue to do so. And, show me again: where have you "proven my judgment is false"? And, where will I be when I am being judged by Yeshua` (for He does all the judging)? I'll stand there and take it like a man! I know that I've made mistakes and have belittled others from time to time. And, these I try to correct when I see them in myself. Again, I judge the message, not the man. So, I judge because in making statements that are nebulous, misrepresenting Scripture, one is TEACHING OTHERS THE SAME ERRORS! This is a MAJOR problem!
And, it WAS you who brought up Mowshiya`! WE were talking about haMashiach! The two, as you well know, are NOT synonymous, and it is "Mashiach" that is used in Dani'el 9:24-27, not "Mowshiya`."
NO, not everyone in this board goes by his/her own imagination; some actually let the Scriptures speak to HIM/HER! The problems arise when one imposes his/her own interpretation on what he/she is reading! And, I perceive that you are doing the same thing, whether you will admit to it or not.
Now, regarding the Mashiach being "karat-cut off," have you never read Isaiah 53? (I KNOW that you have.)
Isaiah 53:1-12
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off (Hebrew: nigzar - cut away/divided) out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
KJV
And, please don't say, "It's not the same word," because I KNOW that, but the words ARE Hebrew synonyms! The CONTEXT equates the two, not the words! No, He was not "cut off forever," but He WAS "separated from the land of the living!"
Don't make the mistake of believing everything that the NIV says about the translation of Dani'el 9. The Hebrew phrase is "v'eeyn low" which translates to "and nothing for himself." They left Him nothing in death; they divided His clothes among themselves and they gambled for His seamless garment. The words do NOT mean that He was "set to naught - nothingness - 'ayin - exoutheneoo"; and, you're mixing languages here, which can be VERY confusing and misleading! Your "'ayin," or rather "v'eeyn," is the Hebrew and "exoutheneoo" is Greek, and before you can compare the two, you really should have a set of verses where the OT is quoted in the NT or the OT is translated in the LXX, first! You're making too many unsubstantiated and unacceptable assumptions.
And regarding "Yochanan haQowre' mashiyach Eliyahu," or roughly "John the-Crier (for) Messiah, Elijah (to come)," we identify him by Isaiah 40:3 as it is quoted in Matthew 3:3, Mark 1:3, Luke 3:4, and John 1:23. But, in answer to your question, "where is it written of Yochanan haQowre' mashiyach Eliyahu that they would do with him as they pleased?" technically, it isn't.
It says...
Matthew 11:7-19
7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
KJV
However, Yochanan WAS abused and mistreated as can be seen in the parable that Yeshua` told:
Matthew 21:32-39
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
KJV
So, no, I do not have the wrong "Mashiyach"; He is the same "Mashiyach" as in Psalm 2, a Messianic psalm. He is God's Anointed - God's CHOICE - for Isra'el's King, the LAST Anointed One for that purpose. And, just because I say that, does NOT mean that I am "calling 'Yeshua` anathema!'" (Talk about mixing languages!) I would never do such a thing, and you are blowing things WAY out of proportion to say or suggest that I am!
Finally, it DOES matter to whom Yeshua` was speaking! You absolutely MUST learn to interpret a passage according to its context! If you don't, you will continue to make HUNDREDS of such errors!
I am NOT "attempting to force the Luke passage to say something that it does not say so as to enforce [my] own paradigm of a physical fleshly kingdom of God upon the physical world-wide planet earth, ruling a physical empire of fleshly kingdoms, over what [you] can only imagine must think of as the 'lesser-brethren millennial sheeples'!" Are you meshuggah?! Or are you just ignorant (in the original sense of the word), ignoring what the Scriptures actually say? I don't have to enforce my own paradigm or promote my own theories or agendas; IT'S ALREADY WRITTEN THERE! Just READ the OT Scriptures, particularly the prophecies, without embellishing them with some "spiritual" (actually, allegorical) interpretation! READ them with their NORMAL INTERPRETATION, and tell me that they're not talking about a physical kingdom! GET REAL!!! Time after time after time, the Isra'elites are encouraged with words about a LITERAL, PHYSICAL, ISRA'ELI KINGDOM ruled by God Himself through His Representative, the Messiah! This isn't brain surgery, but you MUST have eyes to see the obvious!
What I said about "entos" is the truth; it CAN be translated as either "within" or "among," and only context can determine which it should be. You need to get away from your lexicon-only understanding of the Hebrew and the Greek. One does NOT get the full picture of what is being said without the grammar and the parts of speech!