Destroying your understanding of a most favorite salvation passage

[Zachary]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 8:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]to those who are the called according to His purpose. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] “This verse (28) surely ranks as one of the greatest verses in the New Testament. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]… If we do not love God and are not called according to His purpose, then the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]promise of this verse is not for us. … Here (in 29) we see God’s main purpose in[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]working for our good in all things. His ultimate purpose for all of us who believe[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is that we might be conformed to the likeness of His Son … that is, that we should[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]become like His Son Jesus.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium](The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Jesus said those who love God will keep His commandments![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“If you love Me, keep My commandments …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]… He who does not love Me does not keep My words” (John 14:15-24)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Continuing on 6 verses down …[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 8:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“No one can separate us! Except for sin, there is no other circumstance in this life that can[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]separate believers in Christ from God’s love … there is, in fact, one thing – a thing which God [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]did not create – that certainly can separate them from God’s love. And that one thing is sin. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If we continue knowingly in some sin and refuse to repent of it, that sin will most definitely [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]separate us from God’s love and bring upon us God’s terrible wrath and judgment. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Before we were Christians, we were separated from God because of sin. We were God’s [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]enemies. Then, after repenting of our sins and believing in Christ, we were reconciled to God. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But, if we fall back into sin and continue in it knowingly without repenting, we are in danger [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]of again becoming separated from God. And on the day of judgment, that separation will [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]become permanent. Of all the promises in the Bible, the promise of verses 38-39 is one [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]of the greatest. But we must not think about a promise without also thinking about [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the conditions of that promise. It is good to remember the promises of the Bible, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]but we must not forget the warnings!”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium](The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:17) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God’s eyes![/SIZE]

 

[Zachary]

Seems to be quite a distinct lack around here of believing and appreciating the Scriptures!

 

[H. Richard]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 8:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]to those who are the called according to His purpose. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] “This verse (28) surely ranks as one of the greatest verses in the New Testament. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]… If we do not love God and are not called according to His purpose, then the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]promise of this verse is not for us. … Here (in 29) we see God’s main purpose in[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]working for our good in all things. His ultimate purpose for all of us who believe[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is that we might be conformed to the likeness of His Son … that is, that we should[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]become like His Son Jesus.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium](The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Jesus said those who love God will keep His commandments![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“If you love Me, keep My commandments …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]… If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]… He who does not love Me does not keep My words” (John 14:15-24)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Continuing on 6 verses down …[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Romans 8:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“No one can separate us! Except for sin, there is no other circumstance in this life that can[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]separate believers in Christ from God’s love … there is, in fact, one thing – a thing which God [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]did not create – that certainly can separate them from God’s love. And that one thing is sin. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If we continue knowingly in some sin and refuse to repent of it, that sin will most definitely [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]separate us from God’s love and bring upon us God’s terrible wrath and judgment. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Before we were Christians, we were separated from God because of sin. We were God’s [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]enemies. Then, after repenting of our sins and believing in Christ, we were reconciled to God. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But, if we fall back into sin and continue in it knowingly without repenting, we are in danger [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]of again becoming separated from God. And on the day of judgment, that separation will [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]become permanent. Of all the promises in the Bible, the promise of verses 38-39 is one [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]of the greatest. But we must not think about a promise without also thinking about [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]the conditions of that promise. It is good to remember the promises of the Bible, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]but we must not forget the warnings!”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium](The Applied New Testament Commentary, Dr. Thomas Hale, Chariot/Victor Publishing, 1996)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]“conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear” (1 Peter 1:17) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers;
but the face of the Lord is against those (everyone!) who do evil.” (1 Peter 3:12)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Yes, everyone who is sinning without proper repentance is not righteous in God’s eyes![/SIZE]

Since you can not keep the law either why do you insist that everyone else has too?

 

[heretoeternity]

Matthew 7 then Jesus will say "depart from me, I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness"!

 

[Zachary]

Since you can not keep the law either why do you insist that everyone else has too?

'Cause Jesus insists on it.
And I can't figure out whether to use too or two.
Please help ... Tanks, HR.

 

[Zachary]

Matthew 7 then Jesus will say "depart from me, I never knew you, you who practice lawlessness"!

Jesus says this to people who do not do God's will (Mt 7:21).
There is one verse which says God's will is to believe the gospel.
But, there are many other verses telling us what God's will is for us.

The NT was written on purpose so there is always a way out
for people to not believe the real spiritual Truth about everything.
IMO, this is because the elect will be led by the Spirit
in determining what the real spiritual Truths are.
God doesn't want the tares, etc. to be scared away out of
the kingdom of God before it's time for them to be purged.
(Yes, Jesus said both wheat and tares exist together
in the kingdom of God ... until the purge.)

 

[iakov]

[SIZE=medium]Then, after repenting of our sins and believing in Christ, we were reconciled to God. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But, if we fall back into sin and continue in it knowingly without repenting, we are in danger [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]of again becoming separated from God. And on the day of judgment, that separation will [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]become permanent. [/SIZE]

Amen and thank you.

iakov

 

[Barrd]

My Lord and my God has said,

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

I don't intend to debate about this with anyone else. I love Him. Therefore, I will strive to keep His commandments to the very best of my ability.
I hear others saying that I am not bound by His commandments...but those others are strangers to me. I do not know their voices. I know the voice of my Master and my Shepherd, Who says to me,

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

He loves me.
That is all I need to know. Others may talk of "grace", but my Shepherd has shown me grace. They may speak of "forgiveness", but my Lord has forgiven me. They talk of "the gift of eternal life"...but my God is the Way and the Truth and the Life. They try to tell me that no one can keep the law, but that does not matter.
My Lord says that His yoke is easy and His burden is light.
His yoke is obedience, and His burden is love. Gladly do I bear them for His sweet sake...

 

[iakov]

[SIZE=medium]Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers.[/SIZE]

You are bearing false witness against good men who love the believers whom God has placed in their care and who take their responsibility as shepherd seriously. That's pretty arrogant.

And why would anyone commit their eternal life into the hands of some "home group"? If you needed surgery would you commit yourself to a group of people who studied surgery in a "home group"? Why would you entrust your eternal life to a bunch of untrained amateurs?

Get real.

 

[mjrhealth]

Seems to be quite a distinct lack around here of believing and appreciating the Scriptures!

I find this quiet funny, we have some here who hold onto teh law because they believe the bible, we have others who hold onto grace because they believe the bible and others clinging to both just in case because they believe the bible. Only one of them can be right, so which of them is it if they all belive the same bible.....

 

[heretoeternity]

Grace and the law work together, as Paul said in Romans...do we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid!...sin is described in 1st John as "transgession of the law"...and in Romans again Paul said...it is the doers of the law who will be justified...not those who only hear the law..you must D0 IT...

 

[Barrd]

You are bearing false witness against good men who love the believers whom God has placed in their care and who take their responsibility as shepherd seriously. That's pretty arrogant.

And why would anyone commit their eternal life into the hands of some "home group"? If you needed surgery would you commit yourself to a group of people who studied surgery in a "home group"? Why would you entrust your eternal life to a bunch of untrained amateurs?

Get real.

You don't entrust your eternal life to anyone but Jesus Christ.
If you're trusting these "good men who love the believers", you're going to be badly disappointed. They cannot give you eternal life, my friend.
Only Jesus can do that. I may be an "untrained amateur", but even I know that.

And, uh...did you know? Peter was an "untrained amateur". He did not attend any college or seminary school, he had no degrees...all he had was a few years with Jesus. Anyone who has read and studied their Bible has as much or more education than Peter had.

Paul, on the other hand, had the best education money could buy at the time. But it didn't help him recognize his King, did it? It didn't stop him from persecuting, even killing, believers.

Get real.

 

[Zachary]

You (iakov) don't entrust your eternal life to anyone but Jesus Christ.

Yes, of course, and also trust that He will lead you and guide you
by His most precious Holy Spirit ... unto practicing righteousness
and obedience to Jesus' commandments ... unto holiness!

By all means, do NOT place your trust in any man, in any church, etc.
Do place your TRUST in the Holy Scriptures and in the Holy Spirit's
ability to enlighten you as to its' spiritual Truths.

 

[Zachary]

Grace and the law work together, as Paul said in Romans...do we sin more so grace abounds? God forbid!

Further to your reference to Romans 6 ...
Paul was warning them that choosing to be a slave of sin would result in eternal death.
Yes, they were being warned to choose to be slaves of obedience and righteousness unto holiness!

 

[Barrd]

Yes, of course, and also trust that He will lead you and guide you
by His most precious Holy Spirit ... unto practicing righteousness
and obedience to Jesus' commandments ... unto holiness!

By all means, do NOT place your trust in any man, in any church, etc.
Do place your TRUST in the Holy Scriptures and in the Holy Spirit's
ability to enlighten you as to its' spiritual Truths.

Amen, Zachary.
We find ourselves, with HTE, in agreement.

 

[H. Richard]

Heb 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
NKJV

former commandments have been done away with because the law can not save anyone. It made no one perfect. Why!! Because no one can keep them.

But I see on this forum and in many other places that men/women love to teach others that they have to keep the law because they think they keep it.

Gods has given us a better hope, and that hope is belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus' work on the cross.

I am a child of God not by my works but by His.

 

[Barrd]

Heb 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,
19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
NKJV

former commandments have been done away with because the law can not save anyone. It made no one perfect. Why!! Because no one can keep them.

But I see on this forum and in many other places that men/women love to teach others that they have to keep the law because they think they keep it.

Gods has given us a better hope, and that hope is belief, faith, trust and confidence in Jesus' work on the cross.

I am a child of God not by my works but by His.

If you are a "child of God" as you say, does your life reflect it?
You claim to be His, not by your works, but by His. Well and good.
But do you respond to His love for you? Of course, you aren't perfect, none of us are.

 

[KingJ]

Seems to be quite a distinct lack around here of believing and appreciating the Scriptures!

You are not making threads for discussion though. People who read and agree seldom reply ^_^

 

[KingJ]

[SIZE=medium]Therefore, I suggest that you come out from under the leadership of the hireling who [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]is pretending to shepherd you scripturally, and come into the light of the Scriptures![/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]And start up a serious home group of enlightened believers.[/SIZE]

I agree with Iakov here. Paul made certain to appoint qualified elders at every church. There are many churches that have unqualified ledership. With those I agree with you.

 

[KingJ]

But I see on this forum and in many other places that men/women love to teach others that they have to keep the law because they think they keep it.

What actually happens imho is that people confuse accepting Christ with salvation.

Driving my car to the airport is one issue. Flying away from the airpirt on a plane called salvation is another seperate issue.