The Case for Eternal Security

[Behold]

No one who is a slave to sin will remain in the Kingdom.

If you have sin, then you are not in the Kingdom.

If you have sin, then Jesus hasn't paid for it yet, which is why a person will "have it".

No born again has any sin, as they exist "in Christ" and "one with God".

So, that is the Eternal Reality for them... but, if they don't understand what God has done, then they will think .. ."well, because i thought that, or i did that, then i am that"..

And in fact, that is just the mind or the behavior, and those are not born again.

The born again part, is the "SON/Daughter" of God that there is no sin found there, which is why they are already "seated in heavenly places".

Reader, you'll never find a verse in a Bible that says....."you can stop being born again".

And, you will never read a verse in the bible that says..>"they use to be seated in heavenly places in Christ".

You will never find a verse in a bible that says..>"they Use to be a New Creation"...

You will never find a verse in a bible that says "they use to be born again".

You will never find a verse in a bible that says.. ."they used to be One with God ", altho ADAM and Eve are the exception, and that is because they had no Cross of Christ to solve it for eternity.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

what does that say about you?

I'm not the one saying they don't believe Jesus died for his sins.
He was separated from God which is spiritual death done in our behalf, for our sin.

I was just pointing out that Jesus said the Father forsook Him and we know Jesus wouldn't be lying about it:

Matthew 27:46 (also see Psalm 22:1)
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

 

[St. SteVen]

I was just pointing out that Jesus said the Father forsook Him and we know Jesus wouldn't be lying about it:

Matthew 27:46 (also see Psalm 22:1)
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jesus was quoting Psalm 22.
Did you read the punchline?

Psalm 22:24 NIV
For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

/

 

[Behold]

Romans 2:6 NET (New English Translation)
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in the glory of his Father,
and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Add to your verse : 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

or,

if we think about deeds we do down here.

Good gets a reward and bad gets a reward.
"sowing and reaping" is a spiritual reality.
Everything we do, is a seed, planted in the spiritual realm, and that is going to produce a harvest that is titled this... "Destiny".

Reader,
Everyone is creating that as of today....so be careful what deed you choose to do, as "seed time and harvest" is not just for the farmer's market.

Often its that destiny that you created, is the reason you have to "go to God in Prayer" to untangle the mess, the problem, the pain, the suffering.

 

[Wynona]

If you have sin, then you are not in the Kingdom.

If you have sin, then Jesus hasn't paid for it yet, which is why a person will "have it".

No born again has any sin, as they exist "in Christ" and "one with God".

So, that is the Eternal Reality for them... but, if they don't understand what God has done, then they will think .. ."well, because i thought that, or i did that, then i am that"..

And in fact, that is just the mind or the behavior, and those are not born again.

The born again part, is the "SON/Daughter" of God that there is no sin found there, which is why they are already "seated in heavenly places".

Reader, you'll never find a verse in a Bible that says....."you can stop being born again".

And, you will never read a verse in the bible that says..>"they use to be seated in heavenly places in Christ".

You will never find a verse in a bible that says..>"they Use to be a New Creation"...

You will never find a verse in a bible that says "they use to be born again".

You will never find a verse in a bible that says.. ."they used to be One with God ", altho ADAM and Eve are the exception, and that is because they had no Cross of Christ to solve it for eternity.

So in essence, you can't lose your salvation...but if you believe you can, you most assuredly are not saved.

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic to explore.

Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon

/

 

[Behold]

So in essence, you can't lose your salvation...but if you believe you can, you most assuredly are not saved.

@Wynona ,

If a person is born again, then that is an eternally established spiritual birth.

The are joined to God and Jesus as "born again Spiritually"... and that will last for as long as God and Jesus live.

Their spiritual birth..""IN Christ".... was caused and created by God, and that can't be undone by the person, as they didnt cause it.

So, if later, they can't understand it , and have no idea about it, and decide that they can lose it.. then that is just their wrong FAITH.
Nothing more.

If they died today, they go to heaven, not understanding their Salvation.
Nothing more.

But they can cause harm to other Believers, by teaching against Truth, and they dont realize it..
So, that is the issue with allowing everyone a chance to stand up and be counted on a Christian Forum.

As then , what is being allowed is

Fake Christians telling you their theology,
Mormons, giving yoy their's.
Catholics giving you their's.
JW giving you theirs.
Calvinist giving you theirs.

and it just makes TRUTH, denied because all that is ALLOWED., and it never should be.

There are ways around it, if the Forum just has to let everything teach..

In that case, break the forum into "denomination" sections and then the Calvinist's go there and play with each other.
Same with the rest of the Cult teaching groups.

And have a "main forum" that keeps these people away from what ISN"t A cult.

 

[Runningman]

Not really. The one who wished someone all the best was lying to God, himself and to that other person, as he did not at least ask that person for assistance without necessary taking over the scene. His true intentions were exposed, to just give an empty lip-service. His heart produced bad fruit, and he will be judged on this, whether for his gain or loss..

It's a bit of both. Works of the heart, mind, hands, and feet.

Matthew 25:31-46 is about the coming works-based judgement day that all will attend in order to be divided into two primary groups; sheep or goats. The sheep receive eternal life, the goats are destroyed. Those who do the will of the Father will be blessed. The King will say ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me. Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

So just wishing someone well isn't really going to cut it unfortunately. It would require actually doing something.

Also, Paul said in 1 Timothy 5:8 that one who doesn't provide for their own family are worse than an unbeliever.

 

[APAK]

It's a bit of both. Works of the heart, mind, hands, and feet.

Matthew 25:31-46 is about the coming works-based judgement day that all will attend in order to be divided into two primary groups; sheep or goats. The sheep receive eternal life, the goats are destroyed. Those who do the will of the Father will be blessed. The King will say ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me. Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

So just wishing someone well isn't really going to cut it unfortunately. It would require actually doing something.

Also, Paul said in 1 Timothy 5:8 that one who doesn't provide for their own family are worse than an unbeliever.

I think you are definitely and seriously wrong here. My reality says my limbs and hands are servants of my mind and will, that originate in my heart. I don't know where you think yours is located. When I press to write on my keyboard, is it my fingers that decides what I write? Hardly. And you still say it's a bit of both. Wow!

Just think about it for a moment or two.

I would like to see your hands and feet be motivated to do anything, good or bad without the will that is in the HEART and mind.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Did you read the punchline?

Yes, the Lord Jesus indicates that the Father had forsaken Him.

The wages of sin is separation from God and this is what happen to Jesus in our behalf.

One would need help from the devil to misunderstand this simple, straight forward statement of fact.

So in essence, you can't lose your salvation...

Here's one where the Lord is teaching thru Peter that we can lose our salvation:

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

New topic to explore.

This thread is about eternal security being fake gospel

 

[St. SteVen]

Reader Poll topic.

Reader Poll - Where did the Bible come from?

/

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Since others want to bring other topics in to the thread that are not related, here's some entertainment for all:

 

[Runningman]

I think you are definitely and seriously wrong here. My reality says my limbs and hands are servants of my mind and will, that originate in my heart. I don't know where you think yours is located. When I press to write on my keyboard, is it my fingers that decides what I write? Hardly. And you still say it's a bit of both. Wow!

Just think about it for a moment or two.

I would like to see your hands and feet be motivated to do anything, good or bad without the will that is in the HEART and mind.

Correct, it's a bit of both, but the example you provided would be a thought experiment, not the reality for most living people. The reality is we do have a will in our hearts and minds, for now, and the Bible is quite clear we need to do something with our mind and body.

On the other hand, imagine a world where no one did anything, but simply wished each other well. We would have nothing. At the end of the day, if we don't bring our hand to our mouth to eat we will remain hungry until we take action. It's the same for all people.

The idea here is that we should be loving God with all our strength and our neighbor as ourselves. We must act while we can.

 

[APAK]

Correct, it's a bit of both, but the example you provided would be a thought experiment, not the reality for most living people. The reality is we do have a will in our hearts and minds, for now, and the Bible is quite clear we need to do something with our mind and body.

On the other hand, imagine a world where no one did anything, but simply wished each other well. We would have nothing. At the end of the day, if we don't bring our hand to our mouth to eat we will remain hungry until we take action. It's the same for all people.

The idea here is that we should be loving God with all our strength and our neighbor as ourselves. We must act while we can.

Wow, did you actually read what I've been saying? I do not understand why you are still completely missing it, and now you say I agreed with you; about what?. Where did that come from? I don't agree with you at all. It's not correct that it's a bit of both...incredible!

If you did not get to a new wow, after reviewing my posts again, as with a 'now I understand it' moment,, then let's move on...if you don't understand by now I think you might never.

And it's not really a bit deal unless you are watching with keen eyes in what your limps and joints are up to or are doing, versus what your heart is doing first.....I would worry about my heart first in this case......thx

 

[Runningman]

Wow, did you actually read what I've been saying? I do not understand why you are still completely missing it, and now you say I agreed with you; about what?. Where did that come from? I don't agree with you at all. It's not correct that it's a bit of both...incredible!

If you did not get to a new wow, after reviewing my posts again, as with a 'now I understand it' moment,, then let's move on...if you don't understand by now I think you might never.

And it's not really a bit deal unless you are watching with keen eyes in what your limps and joints are up to or are doing, versus what your heart is doing first.....I would worry about my heart first in this case......thx

I am a sola scriptura kind of Christian so I just go with what the Bible says about it being a bit of both. Judgement is based on works as the Bible says and as I quoted it here. From my perspective, we have already moved past that since I already proved such. Are you saying you're in disagreement with the Bible? If so, then do you consider the Bible authoritative? Perhaps I wrongly assumed you believe the Bible. However, yes the final judgement is works based across the board. Faith and works all go together.

Why it's a bit of what's in the heart/mind and what you do is because not only is the final judgement based on one's deeds or works, but also those things must be done sincerely; we can't pretend our way through it either way. One can't fake their way through passing the judgement on works alone, but also by faith, bringing glory to God the Father.