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Did God Create Evil?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by FHII, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I have said before and I say again, yes it does mirror or show a likeness to the fall of Satan, but it is not talking about the fall of Satan. There is no mistaking what he was pointing to when he called the prince of Tyre "a man" in Ezekiel 28.

    Clearly you would agree from the text I brought out earlier, that in Eze 27 he was talking about Eden (an earthly place) as well as the Prince of Tyre (a fleshly man). Clearly in Chapter 31 he is talking about that same region and the Pharoah (also an earthly place and a fleshly man). There were no shifting gears in Chapter 28.

    Adam was called the first Christ and David was also thought to be a type of Christ, but neither were. Satan is a spiritual being and The Prince of Tyre, as well as Lucifer, were flesh and blood men. They even fought against one another!

    The thing is all this is just one small part in the cog. Dispelling Eze 28 as talking about Satan is just a small part. The fact remains that God said he created evil, and he said it in more than one place.
     
  2. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    I understand the view of the two creation theory, I simply don't fully believe it. You mention apostles but no verses.

    For the king of Tyre the comparison between the two is drawn, (Satan and the king) but the subject is the earthly king.
     
  3. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    Then you should see that Ezekiel is also using it as it relates to the original Garden in the beginning, even as the examples provided for you in that post.

    You can see in those scriptures that their mind-set drew frequently back to that original Eden. And the Eden at Ezekiel 28 is specifically called, "The Garden of God".
     
  4. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Vengle, that doesn't mean it was an exact replica. Jerusalem was a model for New Jerusalem. The Law was a shadow of Grace. That doesn't mean they were exact replicas. Once again, this is a pretty small point and while it does dispell that Eze 28 is not talking about Satan, it's just a small part of the overall truth that God said he created evil.
     
  5. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    Where did God say he created all evil?

    Are you espousing Muslim doctrine? They claim that Isaiah 45:7 says what you said but I would give you more credit than to discount the context there so as to continue to believe that in that way.

    The ESV rightly renders it calamity as it was speaking specifically about evil consequences to Israel for their rebellion of sin against God.

    The context of Isaiah chapter 45 in no way supports the conclusion of verse 7 that God created "all" evil. That is a horrid accusation against God to even dare to be so bold as to think, let alone say.

    "I form the light [when you obey me so you can see and not stumble about], and create darkness [ so that you are blind and stumble about when you disobey me]: I make peace [for those who obey me], and create evil [consequences to those who disobey me]: I the LORD do all these things."

    Now show yourself meek enough to look in all of the scriptures and see the tons of proofs that this is what He does.



    And what you say about Eden is nether here nor there. It does not change the obvious mindset of the writer.
     
  6. Doppleganger

    Doppleganger New Member

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    He was created good ... then became evil.
     
  7. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    Give me a break Vengle.... When the Lord said what he said in Isa 45 he was in the middle of making a point about who he was.... He was the Lord, the Only Lord and the Only God. There is none beside him, none before him, none after him. The context of he created evil is spot on. Furthermore, please go back to the very first post. It's not the only time he said this or something like this.

    By the way, I've been thinking and searching.... I can't think of a single verse that says Satan created evil or anything else for that matter. However, I do have one that says God created evil, and another that says he created EVERYTHING.
     
  8. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    Sorry, I have no Kit-Kat bar. :lol:

    Remember that commercial? Give me a break, give me a break, give me a break of that Kit-Kat bar?

    We :) will be OK if we just realize that God loves us enough to bear with us as we figure it out.

    As long as we are trying He will never desert us.

    Amen?

    Amen.

    PS/ Heading to that very first post (I assume you mean in the thread?) per your suggestion.

    OK, I went and read it. It is nothing that has not also made me pause and search in the past, principally when I was living with a very religious Muslim guy. (No gay, don't go there :lol: )

    But living with that Muslim guy was a real challenge for me as I ended up living with him because I was in a very weak state to begin with. Before the end of that dwelling he was the one that ended up becoming a Christian.

    And I was very ignorant at that time but for God helping me find the answers for him.

    If you are willing to calmly reason and resist letting offense take over our discussion I will go through that entire post with you a piece at a time?
     
  9. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    FHI, here are the rules.

    If you cannot or will not abide this then I leave you to believe whatever you wish to believe.

    You will stick to the context of the specific verse under discussion and resist relating it to scriptures elsewhere that you assume you have interpreted correctly –-------because to the extent you have wrongly understood other verses in other contexts against their context they will only serve as padlocks to cause you to resist reasoning on the scripture and its context that is at hand.

    By the time we are finished we will have examined all of the verses you cited, each against their context independent of each other and then and only then will you be equipped to see how they really correlate.

    If you cannot do that I want no part of this discussion with you.
     
  10. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    feel free to do what you want....

    Will you be providing verses that say Satan created evil, as well?

    If you want to demand rules, I have a few of my own. 1. Use the Bible to make your point, not philosophy. 2. Include the entire chapter or chapters if necessary and don't skip verses.

    I'd like you to start with John 1:3.
     
  11. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    You are mixing abstracts with things.

    let's see how you respond to that thought, first.

    Abstract = intangibles

    Things = tangibles

    if you have questions, ask.

    Remember, I started out stupid. There is nothing you can go through that I cannot relate to because I had to learn it all from scratch as an adult. Nothing to be ashamed of.

    Here is a hint:

    Isaiah 45:7 I form <H3335> the light <H0216>, and create <H1254> darkness <H2822>: I make <H6213> peace <H7965>, and create <H1254> evil <H7451>: I <H0589> the LORD <H3068> do <H6213> all <H3605> these <H0428> things <H9999>.


    Colossians 1:16 for <G3754> by <G1722> him <G0846> were <G2936> all things <G3956> created <G2936>, <that> are <G9999> in <G1722> heaven <G3772>, and <G2532> <that> are <G9999> in <G1909> earth <G1093>, visible <G3707> and <G2532> invisible <G0517>, whether <G1535> they be <G9999> thrones <G2362>, or <G1535> dominions <G2963>, or <G1535> principalities <G0746>, or <G1535> powers <G1849>. All things <G3956> were created <G2936> by <G1223> him <G0846>, and <G2532> for <G1519> him <G0846>.

    Do you see yet why you cannot rest on the word "things"?

    Do you see in the context of Colossians 1 he defined "all" for us?

    "whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers"
     
  12. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I simply asked you to use the Bible to make your point instead of using philosophical arguements. I also asked you to consider the entire chapter when considering a verse, or if need be, additional chapters preceding or following (that should've been evident). I don't think either of these things are unreasonable, nor do I see what they have to do with comparing tangible things with intangible things. So are you going to explain to me with the Bible why God didn't create evil, or aren't you?

    I also requested that you provide a verse that says Satan (and I'll include anyone else for that matter) created evil. That's a reasonable request, because if God didn't create it, who did?

    I also requested you start with John 1:3, but you can start where you like.

    Now if you will, please get on with it, or stop bothering me with it.
     
  13. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    There is nothing philosophical about what I just related to you.

    That is a great way to divert having to talk about what is but you have already shown that you are as a lame horse not able even to get out of the gate to run the race.

    And my guess is that you are not ready yet.

    So there is where i will leave it for now.
     
  14. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    That was pretty uncalled for. If you aren't going to discuss them, I'm fine with that.... In fact, I have no interest in discussing it with you at this point.
     
  15. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    God addressing Satan as "a man" (like in Isa.14) is not dependent upon the idea of flesh man, simply because the image of man originates from God's Own Image. That's why when angels appeared on earth per God's Word they had the image appearance of man. Even the meaning of the name Gabriel is 'man of God'. So I'd like to know where some get that idea that God can't be referring to Satan because of calling him a man.

    There is a major 'shifting of gears' in the Isa.14 chapter, in the Ezek.28 chapter, and also in the Ezek.31 chapter. Likewise at the end of Isa.30 when God first mentions the Assyrian, but is using the flesh king of Assyria as a 'type' for Satan, for Tophet (metaphor for the "lake of fire" there) was not prepared of old for any flesh king, but for the devil himself.

    One would have to completely blind to not see the following shift at the start of Ezek.31...

    Ezek 31:2-3
    2 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
    3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
    (KJV)

    It starts off with addressing Pharaoh, and in the very next verse God starts speaking of "the Assyrian".


    Someone has obviously told you to speak against any idea that those chapters are referring to Satan himself, and I'd just like to know what reason they gave you for doing that?


    Your last statement that Lucifer was a flesh man is a theory. That word is not even IN... the Hebrew manuscripts. The KJV translators added it from the Latin name for the planet Venus. The actual Hebrew word that is there means 'morning star', a Title that only... belongs to Christ Jesus Himself (Rev.22).

    The reason why God used it in Isa.14 was because He was using Satan's own words to mock him with, because Satan's rebellion was about coveting God's Throne in wanting to be God. Thus Satan also tries to steal Christ's Title of The Morning Star.

    I can understand how not all Bible believers do not yet 'see' how God uses the flesh kings of Bible history as 'types' for Satan per the Isa.14, 30, Ezek.28 & 31 chapters. But with someone who goes out of their way to try prove against that, when the pointers God left us is obvious, that suggests influence from another agenda, an agenda to hide God's Truth.

    The reason I say it's an agenda to hide that Truth of God's Word is because of what Satan's original rebellion was about in coveting God's Throne for himself. THAT is the main issue God brings up in those chapters used as 'types' for Satan. And it was never a flesh man that originally did that sin against God, but Satan himself as the originator of coveting God's Throne. That is a VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE from God's Word for His people living in the last days because Satan is going to come to earth as the Antichrist to do that same sin once again.

    And naturally, those who serve the devil today do NOT want that kind of information out, nor believed.
     
  16. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    I outline enough of the Bible chapter info in my previous posts. I also have posts on the matter in the Bible Study threads. So I'm not going to lay all that out for you since you've already revealed you're determined to not believe it anyway.



    That's a totally irrelevant statement concerning God's use of the flesh kings of Bible history as 'types' for Satan, as in Isa.14, 30, Ezek.28 & 31. Enough descriptions God gave to point to Satan have already been given, and yet to be disproven by anyone here.


    Now, for those who DO want to understand why God gave some specific descriptions that point ONLY to Satan in the Isaiah 14, 30, Ezekiel 28 & 31 chapters ---

    In 2 Thessalonians 2, we are given another warning about the type of original sin of Satan coveting God's Throne, wanting to be God in His Place. The difference with the 2 Thess.2 example is that it is specifically to take place in the very last days just prior to Christ's second coming.

    And if these SAME folks who have come here to try to downplay God's exposing of Satan's rebellion in those Isa.14 and Ezek.28 chapters, try to do the same with the 2 Thess.2 Scripture warning of one coming to play God, THEN YOU SHOULD KNOW THOSE FOLKS are not really who they say they are, but are on agenda to prevent you from understanding this important part of God's Word.

    Here is yet another point to consider for true Bible students here, concerning those who put the blame on God for creating 'evil'.

    To try and make God responsible for the existence of 'evil' is an idea from Satan himself. The devil loves it when you blame God for existence of evil, hatred, strivings, murder, envy, jealousy, etc. That is Satan's MO. A child of God should have a 'natural' propensity to not blame our Heavenly Father for such things. So when you hear someone proclaim God is responsible for all that, you should sit up and take warning about such people that believe that, and consider who's influence they might be under (like Satan).
     
  17. FHII

    FHII Well-Known Member

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    I discussed Isa 14 to point out that the same mistake many make in Eze 28 is made in Isa 14. I brought up Eze 31 as evidence that the Eden discussed in ch 28 was not the Garden of Eden found in Gen, but an earthly region. They have nothing to do with the question of whether God or Satan created evil. As for Eze 28, I don't see anything there that points to Satan creating evil either, but you brought it up.

    Yes there is a shift of discussion between those three chapters, but not between Eze 27 and 28. I realize at times God used angels in the likeness of men (I'm thinking of the three "men" Abraham met before the destruction of Sodom), but using that is only setting a precidence that it was done, and does not directly prove God ever called Satan a man.

    I apologize for the short post, but I don't have the time to fully discuss all the content of your post. I will do so later. In the mean time, do you have any verse that directly says Satan created evil, as I do (God created evil) with Isa 45?

    Thank you
     
  18. Vengle

    Vengle New Member

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    Man’s capacity to do evil does come of man being made in God’s image.

    Does that mean God is directly responsible for all evil that man commits?

    Does God use evil for an intrinsically good purpose or an intrinsically bad purpose?

    In other words can there be two types of evil, one with an essential good nature and the other with an essential bad nature?

    How does man’s use of evil compare to Gods?

    A common belief is that anything a man does is only what God already knew the man would do and meant for the man to do. This idea is based in the doctrine concerning God’s omniscience. Here is where many are trapped into confusion.
     
  19. justaname

    justaname Disciple of Jesus Christ Staff Member

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    Funny you make my determinations for me, do you pick the clothes I wear in the morning also? Again I have seen no scripture supporting what you claim, I have provided plenty, and can continue to do so.

    Mine is not to blame the Father, or even Satan for that matter, only to understand God is control of all things, including evil. Job 2:10 Revelation 9:14-15
    I do have the ability to choose, hence the free will, but God knows what I say before I say it. Psalm 139:4

    God is sovereign!!!! God never changes!!!! So from everlasting to everlasting He was, and is, and always will be sovereign!!!! I don't care when Satan fell, for it was God who allowed it to happen. It is our God who created all things, thereby He is sovereign over all things! The timing of Satan's fall is irrelevant.

    Now again lets go back to the beginning.
    Genesis 1:31 And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
    Never in the texts does this change until chapter 3. If you want to add to the texts to make them fiction, go ahead, but I will stick to what is written.

    Genesis 2 is not a recreation or second world. It is simply like a microscope focusing in on the "generations of the heavens and of the earth." Genesis 2:4
    If it were a recreation, why is there not another seven day representation? Why does the earth already exist? Genesis 2:5
    Without a second seven day creation what is the importance of the sabbath? By honoring the sabbath are the Jews honoring God for world they don't live in?
    God and the Lord God are one and the same, for we know there is only one God. The author, most likely Moses, chooses to use the descriptive term for God to show God's authority or ownership.

    Based on the texts and not theology, law is not presented until Genesis 2:16-17 Satan is the first transgressor, he also becomes the greatest accuser against mankind.

    Now lets look at our Lord's prayer.
    To recount, it is a prayer from Jesus to God. What does He ask but to "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." Why would Jesus ask God to not lead us into temptation?

    When Jesus went to be tempted by Satan who lead Him there? Matthew 4:1

    Now for the omniscient description of God.
    Job 37:16
    Psalm 147:5
    1 Samuel 2:3
    Isaiah 55:9
    Job 28:44
    1 John 3:19-20
    Hebrews 4:13
    Isaiah 46:9
    Matthew 10:30
    Psalm 139:4

    If anyone believes God is not omniscient please first explain the meaning of these verses, then give supporting verses showing God is not.

    The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is just that. We know about them, not all of us understand them. Genesis 5:23
     
  20. veteran

    veteran New Member

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    The Hebrew word for "evil" in the KJV verse Isa.45:7 can be translated many different ways. So that's yet another marker of those with the agenda to assign the origin of evil to God as if He is to blame.

    Certain descriptions God gave in Isaiah 14, 30, Ezekiel 28 & 31 CANNOT be applied to flesh kings, but to Satan only. And, it's clear as butter: So those who have never considered this matter before that want to learn about have come to the right place today, because I'm going to cover it, and pull out all... the stops. Understanding this is very important in helping to understand Christ's Revelation about the mystery Babylon idea, so this is "strong meat" for the endtimes folks.

    Here's Isaiah 14 first --


    Isa 14:4-27
    4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!


    What's a "proverb"? It's the Hebrew word 'mashal', and means an maxim, metaphor, or simile. It's about describing one thing and using it as a comparison for something else. People do this in all languages all the time, so it's not something unfamiliar to any of us. And that's how our Heavenly Father teaches, using something that we're all familiar with.

    God mentions "the king of Babylon" of history, like king Nebuchadnezzar for one. But because He tied this with that "proverb" idea, He's saying to listen up, that He's going to reveal more with this MESSAGE than just things about the flesh king of Babylon. It's prepping us to be ready to look for that other comparison He points us to.


    Isa.14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
    6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
    7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.


    Ask yourself if that has all come to pass even for today. It hasn't, not yet, but will, when Christ returns to take rule over all... nations upon this earth, in Person. That's to be when His servants will rule the nations with "a rod of iron" He promised them per Revelation. That's why verse 7 declares the time when the whole... earth is at rest and quiet, and they break forth in singing.

    Now someone who thinks to claim this world since Adam and Eve has ever... been wholly at rest with the staff of the wicked finally broken by God definitely has issues of euphoria, dimentia, or any other of a variety of mental disorders.

    What is this "staff" of the wicked God mentions He will have broken in that future time? Back in Isa.10 God called "the Assyrian" the rod of His anger. A rod in that case means a punishing rod. The Hebrew for that "staff" can also be translated as 'branch'. Later in this same Isa.14 chapter God uses the idea of an 'abominable branch' about the one He's going to destroy in everlasting fire. God covers this point again later in Isa.25 about this false branch. It's also important to note that Christ is referred to as the True "BRANCH" (Zech.3, 6; Jer.23, 33, etc.). So just as there is a fake 'rock' (Satan), and a True Rock (God), likewise there's a fake branch (Satan) and a True Branch (Christ Jesus). Satan wants to be The Rock, and The Branch, which is what God's Message here is especially about.

    Once going through this chapter and re-reading this Isa.14:5 verse again about that "staff" reveals even more, as it points to Satan's ultimate end and then God's new heavens and a new earth time.

    So already, God has gone pretty deep here with symbols to let us know who He's really talking about, i.e., Satan, and not just a literal flesh king of history. And the comparisons has already gone deep to the idea of a fake 'branch' (staff) to be destroyed, and Christ Who is The True Branch per Scripture.


    Isa.14:8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, "Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us."

    This fir trees and cedars of Lebanon idea is another link to this same type of Message in the Ezekiel chapters, especially Ezekiel 31. The cedars of Lebanon God used as a symbol for royalty (like Ezek.17).

    This Isa.14:8 verse is still of the same timing of the previous verses, during Christ's future "thousand years" reign when Satan and his host will be cast in the pit prison, and locked up for that thousand years. These "fir trees" rejoice because they see this 'staff' or wicked branch, is powerless ("laid down"), and his followers have no power to do wickedness in that future time.


    Isa.14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

    Now there's an undeniable direct pointer to Satan himself, for God's children to understand. Why? Well who did God prepare the abode of hell ultimately for? Satan and his angels, as it is going to go into the "lake of fire" in final. This word "dead" in the Hebrew does not mean our loved ones that have already died either. It's one of the places in the KJV where the translators should have carried it into the English as proper name, that of 'Rephaim'. The Rephaims were the 'giants' of the Book of Genesis.

    So make no mistake about this abode of "hell" God is pointing to here. It is not just some simple hole in the ground that Satan's servants want us to think because they don't like God's concept of this "hell", a holding place for wicked.

    Once again, this Isa.14:9 verse is in the same time flow as the previous verses, which was for what time? Christ's future Millennium reign with His elect priests and kings on earth. Satan and his hosts will be locked in that 'pit' of "hell" all during that future "thousand years" reign. When the first day of that starts with Christ's return, the wicked chief ones of the earth are going to be stirred up to meet their 'worshipful master', Satan himself. God The Creator is going to see to it. We'll see how much they like worshipping Lucifer then.


    Isa.14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, "Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?"

    All those chief ones of the earth in "hell" in that time are going to look over at Satan and marvel; "Art thou also become weak as we? are thou become like unto us?"


    Isa.14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

    Satan's rebelliousness ("pomp") will be brought down to the... "grave"? Wait a minute. That "grave" is the same Hebrew word 'sheowl' translated as "Hell" back in the previous Isa.14:9 verse. The KJV translators used the idea of a 'grave' in the ground here because of the last phrase comparisons of the worms. But God is only giving that as an expression for how man's flesh goes through decay at burial, and applying it to Satan himself locked in his pit prison of hell. By God saying that about him, it's a deep insult to Satan, because Satan is still a heavenly cherub and not a flesh man. Yet, God is mocking him by referring to him as man's flesh that goes through decay of burial.


    Isa.14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
    13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
    14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."


    No mistaking who God's talking about now. The KJV translators put the name "Lucifer" here to better reveal how God is pointing to the devil with this Message. They put 'O day starre' in the margin of their 1st edition 1611 KJV Bible to let us know this. Day star, or morning star, is what the Hebrew word 'heylel' actually means, and many later Bible translations has it as such, having removed the word "Lucifer". The KJV translators got the name Lucifer from the Latin name for the planet Venus, because it was a well-known moniker for Satan.

    So what's God's Message with that verse? God is using Satan's own... words against him, for God is repeating just what Satan has claimed he's going to do against God; i.e., basically try to steal God's Throne. Satan even said he intends to sit upon the mount of the congregation, so what's that? That's God's Place in relation to His people Israel! That's a pointer to Satan wanting to be WORSHIPED by us in God's Place!

    The willingly ignorant will still try to bring up the false notion that all this is only about the flesh king of Babylon that died long ago per history. Well, the very start of these Isa.14 verses ended that notion a long time ago, for the time setting of these verses when the firs rejoice because God has broken the staff of the wicked are STILL FUTURE TO US EVEN. And the flesh king of Babylon has been dead and buried for how long now???


    Isa.14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
    17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"


    Once again, this may sound like a funeral for the historical king of Babylon who died long ago, but it's an actual pointer to Satan himself being locked in his pit prison during Christ's future "thousand years" reign (Rev.20). Satan has the image of man also, for that's the type of Image our Heavenly Father also has. This is why the fallen angels of Genesis 6 and the Book of Job are also called "sons of God", and why Archangel Gabriel's name means 'man of God'.


    Isa.14:18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
    19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.


    Think about it. Is this just the flesh king of Babylon being spoken of here? Not if one heeds what God said with the idea of a "proverb" for this back at the Isa.14:4 verse. Once gain, because Satan has claimed he will be God, and raise himself up to sit in God's Throne, God is going to show him, and us, and Satan's servants, that he is nothing, but just like a flesh man, with no power at all. God is using Satan as a punishing rod upon the wicked and nothing more. He's treating Satan like a switch broken off a tree to use for whipping. And when He's done, He's going to cast that stick in the fire, like "an abominable branch."

    This is why those of you who stand in Christ Jesus don't have to worry about Satan and his hosts, nor his little nothings here on earth that serve and worship him. The ONLY control Satan and his little children have in the world is to try... and lead you into doing wickedness and evil. They cannot make... you do it, you have to choose to do it for them to have any influence over you. That's why there exists so many different kinds of temptation in this present world, to try and get you to follow them. Stay in Christ's Grace and you will be under God's Protection, as He promised.


    Isa.14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

    That's right, Satan is not going to even get a descent funeral and burial like the flesh kings of history did. That's another pointer that God is pointing to Satan here, and not just the king of Babylon.


    Isa.14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

    We all know Satan has followers still today who literally worship him in place of our Heavenly Father through His Son. We also know they are mixed among us, like "wolves in sheep's clothing", looking for whom they can devour next. For those truely wicked, their time of slaughter is soon coming when Christ returns and the later "lake of fire" event comes.


    Isa.14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
    23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.


    Now God is definitely... speaking of historical Babylon with these verses. But historical Babylon only? Not if you recognized Christ using the name Babylon again in His Book of Revelation given through His Apostle John. Why would Christ use that name Babylon again? It's because the area of Babylon is where the first pagan false idol worship of the devil began. Sargon in ancient Sumer was the first Baal worshipper, and it then spread to other nations to create 'confusion' against God. That's the meaning of the root word for Babylon, it points to the idea of 'confusion', which is also the meaning of Hebrew tohuw used for when the earth was "without form" in Gen.1:2 and Jer.4:23. That's when Satan caused the 'confusion' to come by his original rebellion in wanting to be GOD.

    Thus the word Babylon is a unique identifier for the whole reason of rebellion on this earth, from Satan's start of it all the way to its end. The Babylon harlot symbol for a certain city in our Lord's Book of Revelation is to point to this very idea of Satan coveting God's Throne, and Satan trying to establish that upon this earth, to prepare himself a place to sit upon Zion in today's Jerusalem. Mount Zion in Jerusalem is where has proclaimed He will dwell forever, and that SPECIFICALLY is the place on earth that Satan most wants for his very own. Will you join in with Satan's children to worship him when he tries to do that in the Jerusalem of our near future? The mystery is, that Satan is coming to try and play The Christ, Messiah, the one today's Jews are still waiting for since they rejected Jesus of Nazareth The Christ.

    Isa.14:24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
    25 That I will break the Assyrian in My land, and upon My mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
    26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
    27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
    (KJV)


    What's God doing with bringing up "the Assyrian" in this? I thought He was taking about the king of Babylon since verse 4, didn't you? This is another direct pointer to how God is giving a lot more information here than just some flesh king of history. His connecting the Assyrian king with this further proves how He uses the flesh kings as 'types' for Satan himself. So when you read Scripture about the king of Babylon or the Assyrian, consider if it would have connection to Satan himself, and most often a lot more understanding will come forth about Satan himself.

    Here's another example of how I know God is giving us this...

    Isa 30:31-33
    31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
    32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.
    33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; He hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
    (KJV)


    There's that Assyrian in connection with a punishing rod again (fake branch idea per Isa.14). Is that about the flesh king of Assyria, or about someone else? Isa.30:33 reveals it's about Satan, for Tophet is put as a symbol for the "lake of fire" of Rev.20. That fire has specifically been ordained for Satan and his angels. They only as of today, have already been judged and sentenced to perish in that fire. No one else has of yet, not until God's Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Rev.20.

    Likewise with the Ezekiel 28 & 31 chapters, God gives this kind dual comparison thing.
     
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