Did Jesus claim to be God?

[Cristo Rei]

I don't object i just find it difficult to comprehend even the RCC says its a mystery. Can anyone say that they truly know?

@theophilus I never rejected the Trinity and made sure I made that clear.
The two things I was discussing were;
How I find it difficult to comprehend, and how I find that there is little direct evidence in scripture
Then I asked if anyone truly understands the Trinity.

The post you referred to starts with...

Look im not saying your wrong or criticizing the doctrine

And yet ur response was...

This post shows the lengths some will go to to reject the Trinity

So again I ask you to show me exactly were I am rejecting the Trinity?

 

[Cristo Rei]

I dunno... Im just disappointed that one cannot ask questions without being labelled a heretic or something so im just going to leave the topic of the Trinity with this...

A priest once gave a sermon on the Trinity during mass. The humble priest admitted that the Trinity is somewhat of a mystery and went through a hand full of questions to which his responses were "we don't know"
He then described the Trinity as being like an egg. It has the yolk, the white and the shell.
Three parts make up the egg just like the Trinity

If we understood the Trinity and everything else about God then it wouldn't require any faith at all.
But it requires true faith to believe in something that we don't fully comprehend

God Bless

 

[Truther]

Many who deny the deity of Jesus say that he never claimed to be God. It is true that there is no record of Jesus ever saying the words, “I am God,” but many of the things he said were in face assertions of his deity.

For example, there is this statement in his Sermon on the Mount.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:10-12 ESV

He equated being persecuted for righteousness’ sake for being persecuted for his sake. Only God, the source of all righteousness, could make such a claim. And what about this statement near the end of the sermon?

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?”And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV

In saying that he will decide who enters the kingdom he is claiming to be God, just as the Father is.

He claimed to have the authority to forgive sins.

And they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay.

And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts,“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Mark 2:3-7 ESV

The scribes were correct. Only God can forgive sins. Jesus was claiming to be God, and he backed up his claim by what he did next.

And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.”

And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Mark 2:8-12 ESV

There was one time when Jesus plainly said that he was God.

“Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:56-58 ESV

To understand the significance of what Jesus said we must look at what God said to Moses in their first encounter.

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” Exodus 3:13-15 ESV

Jesus was declaring that he was the God who spoke to Moses.

Jesus did make one statement which some say was a denial of his deity.

And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
Luke 18:18,19 ESV

It sounds as if Jesus was telling the ruler he shouldn’t call him good because only God is good, but in fact he didn’t say the ruler was wrong in what he said. He was asking him if he understood. The conversation ended with Jesus again saying he was God.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Luke 18:22 ESV

The ruler had asked how to inherit eternal life; Jesus said that the way was to follow him.

When we read the gospels in English it might not always be clear that Jesus said he was God, but those who heard him had no trouble understanding.

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:17,18 ESV

Jesus did not claim to be God until after resurrecting, when he was officially made God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Many who deny the deity of Jesus say that he never claimed to be God. It is true that there is no record of Jesus ever saying the words, “I am God,” but many of the things he said were in face assertions of his deity.

For example, there is this statement in his Sermon on the Mount.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:10-12 ESV

He equated being persecuted for righteousness’ sake for being persecuted for his sake. Only God, the source of all righteousness, could make such a claim. And what about this statement near the end of the sermon?

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?”And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV

In saying that he will decide who enters the kingdom he is claiming to be God, just as the Father is.

He claimed to have the authority to forgive sins.

And they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay.

And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts,“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Mark 2:3-7 ESV

The scribes were correct. Only God can forgive sins. Jesus was claiming to be God, and he backed up his claim by what he did next.

And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.”

And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Mark 2:8-12 ESV

Jesus did make one statement which some say was a denial of his deity.

And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
Luke 18:18,19 ESV

It sounds as if Jesus was telling the ruler he shouldn’t call him good because only God is good, but in fact he didn’t say the ruler was wrong in what he said. He was asking him if he understood. The conversation ended with Jesus again saying he was God.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Luke 18:22 ESV

The ruler had asked how to inherit eternal life; Jesus said that the way was to follow him.

When we read the gospels in English it might not always be clear that Jesus said he was God, but those who heard him had no trouble understanding.

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:17,18 ESV

Jesus isn't God. The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God and that he has a Father and God even after Jesus resurrection Jesus continues to say he has a Father and God. When people quoted the scripture that says: Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. You do in that Scripture that Jesus isn't saying he is the Father, right. He's saying that the ones who does his Fathers will who is in heaven will enter the kingdom. Anyone who has done any reading and studying God's word knows that the Only Begotten Son of God Jesus has a Father and God even after his resurrection. When Jesus claimed to have the authority to forgive sins it's true that he did have that authority because God gave him that authority.
I could go on and on, but the plain simple fact is, there are many people who can't exercise faith that The Father and God of The Only Begotten Son, has given his Only Begotten Son the authority to forgive sins and heal people of their sicknesses and expel demons. Jesus himself said he did these healings and expelling demons, with God's Spirit. Jesus wasn't saying he was God When he said that.
Jehovah God has given his Only Begotten Son the authority to forgive sins to expel demons and heal people sicknesses. In fact Jehovah God tells us that he has subjected all powers, authorities to his Only Begotten Son, the last to be defeated is Hades and death.

 

[101G]

Jesus did not claim to be God until after resurrecting, when he was officially made God.

GINOLJC, to all.

Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. was not Jesus God before he came in flesh?

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Jesus isn't God.

thanks for the reply, but the bible disagree with that assessment. you still want to hold onto your false beliefs, oh well. 1 Peter 1:10 and 11 destroys your statement that Jesus is not God.

PICJAG.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

theophilus said:
There was one time when Jesus plainly said that he was God.
“Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”
So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:56-58 ESV[/Quote\]

On this expression the comment of the Abbé Drioux edition of the Holy Bible is: “Before Abraham was, I am, in fact God eternal, before Abraham was born.” In a footnote in his Bible translation Monsignor Ronald A. Knox says: “Joh 8 Verse 58. ‘I am’; here our Lord seems explicitly to claim a Divine title, compare Exodus 3:14.” So we turn to Exodus 3:14 (Dy) and read. “God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.” But the King James Version reads: “And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.”

The expression “I AM” is there used as a title or a name, and in the Hebrew this expression is the one word Ehyéh. Jehovah God was there speaking to Moses and sending him to the children of Israel. Well, then, in John 8:58, was Jesus claiming to be Jehovah God? Not according to many modern Bible translators, as the following quotations will prove: Moffatt: “I have existed before Abraham was born.” Schonfield and An American Translation: “I existed before Abraham was born.” Stage (German): “Before Abraham came to be, I was.” Pfaefflin (German): “Before there was an Abraham, I was already there!” George M. Lamsa, translating from the Syriac Peshitta, says: “Before Abraham was born, I was.” Dr. James Murdock, also translating from the Syriac Peshitto Version, says: “Before Abraham existed, I was.” The Brazilian Sacred Bible published by the Catholic Bible Center of São Paulo says: “Before Abraham existed, I was existing.”—2nd edition, of 1960, Bíblia Sagrada, Editora.

We must remember, also, that when Jesus spoke to those Jews, he spoke to them in the Hebrew of his day, not in Greek. How Jesus said John 8:58 to the Jews is therefore presented to us in the modern translations by Hebrew scholars who translated the Greek into the Bible Hebrew, as follows: Dr. Franz Delitzsch: “Before Abraham was, I have been.” Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg: “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.” In both of these Hebrew translations the translators use for the expression “I have been” two Hebrew words, both a pronoun and a verb, namely, aní hayíthi; they do not use the one Hebrew word: Ehyéh. So they do not make out that in John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was Jehovah, the I AM.

In what language did John write his life account of Jesus Christ? In the Greek language, not in Hebrew; and in the Greek text the controversial expression is Egó eimí. Just by itself, without any introductory material ahead of it, Egó eimí means “I am.” Now this expression Egó eimí occurs also in John 8:24, 28; and in those verses the Authorized or King James Version and the Douay Version and others render the expression into English as “I am he,” the pronoun he being put in italics to indicate that the pronoun he is added or inserted. (AV; AS; Yg) But here, in John 8:58, those versions do not render this same expression as “I am he,” but only as “I am.” They evidently want to give us the idea that Jesus was not simply referring to his existence but also giving himself a title that belongs to Jehovah God, in imitation of Exodus 3:14.

When writing John 8:58, the apostle was not quoting from the Greek Septuagint Version, a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures made by Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, Egypt, before the birth of Christ. Let anyone who reads Greek compare John 8:58 in Greek and Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint, and he will find that the Septuagint reading of Exodus 3:14 does not use the expression Egó eimí for God’s name, when God says to Moses: “I AM hath sent me unto you.” The Greek Septuagint uses the expression ho Ōn, which means “The Being,” or, “The One who is.” This fact is clearly presented to us in Bagster’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, at Exodus 3:14, which reads: “And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING [ho Ōn]; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING [ho Ōn] has sent me to you.” According to Charles Thomson’s translation of the Greek Septuagint, Exodus 3:14 reads: “God spoke to Moses saying, I am The I Am [ho Ōn]. Moreover he said, Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel, The I Am [ho Ōn] hath sent me to you.” Thus this comparison of the two Greek texts, that of the Septuagint and that of John 8:58, removes all basis for trinitarians to argue that Jesus, in John 8:58, was trying to fit Exodus 3:14 to himself, as if he was Jehovah God.

O yes, the Greek expression ho Ōn does occur in the apostle John’s writings. It occurs in the Greek text of John 1:18; 3:13 (AV; Yg), Joh 3:31; 6:40; 8:47; 12:17; 18:37, but not as a title or name. So in four of those verses it applies, not to Jesus, but to other persons. However, in the Revelation or Apocalypse the apostle John does use the expression ho Ōn as a title or designation five times, namely, in Revelation 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17; 16:5. But in all five cases the expression ho Ōn is applied to Jehovah God the Almighty, and not to the Lamb of God, the Word of God.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

thanks for the reply, but the bible disagree with that assessment. you still want to hold onto your false beliefs, oh well. 1 Peter 1:10 and 11 destroys your statement that Jesus is not God.

PICJAG.

I've always known what you believe the scriptures say, I just disagree with you. I have given good evidence to you in past posts that disagree with you and others that say Jesus is God. If you choose to ignore said evidence, then so be it. You and others continue to believe Jesus to be God and I'll continue to believe he's the Only Begotten Son of God. The Christ, the Son of the living God, as the Apostle Peter said when Jesus asked his Apostles who they believed he was.

 

[101G]

I've always known what you believe the scriptures say, I just disagree with you. I have given good evidence to you in past posts that disagree with you and others that say Jesus is God. If you choose to ignore said evidence, then so be it. You and others continue to believe Jesus to be God and I'll continue to believe he's the Only Begotten Son of God. The Christ, the Son of the living God, as the Apostle Peter said when Jesus asked his Apostles who they believed he was.

first thanks for the reply. you can "disagree" with me all day long, but you cannot disagree with the scriptures. look I'm not aganist you, it's your doctrine that is not lining up with what the bible states, not even your NWT. we clearly showed you in Isaiah 35:4 that God came and save us. the Son of God is God in flesh, not some natural son who is seperate from God himself. but if you refuse to hear your own NWT, then there is no help, nor hope.

do you really believe in the NWT?. just see what it says there in Isaiah 35:4.

PICJAG.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

first thanks for the reply. you can "disagree" with me all day long, but you cannot disagree with the scriptures. look I'm not aganist you, it's your doctrine that is not lining up with what the bible states, not even your NWT. we clearly showed you in Isaiah 35:4 that God came and save us. the Son of God is God in flesh, not some natural son who is seperate from God himself. but if you refuse to hear your own NWT, then there is no help, nor hope.

do you really believe in the NWT?. just see what it says there in Isaiah 35:4.

PICJAG.

It's just as easy to say you're disagreeing with the scriptures. I've shown too much evidence that you and others want to ignore, That's your right. Doesn't mean you're right for doing so. No one including you have given me evidence that show I'm disagreeing with the scriptures. There's too many scriptures that contradict the notion that people say Jesus is God. You and others want to ignore those scriptures, go ahead. Doesn't mean I have to agree with you and ignore them cause you and others have.

 

[101G]

It's just as easy to say you're disagreeing with the scriptures. I've shown too much evidence that you and others want to ignore, That's your right. Doesn't mean you're right for doing so. No one including you have given me evidence that show I'm disagreeing with the scriptures. There's too many scriptures that contradict the notion that people say Jesus is God. You and others want to ignore those scriptures, go ahead. Doesn't mean I have to agree with you and ignore them cause you and others have.

sorry for you, I have showed you from your own bible, the NWT, but when people refuse to believe their own bible, as said I leave you with Revelation 22:11.

see ya.

PICJAG.

 

[amadeus]

None of those verses describe the Trinity. It appears that Protestants aren't sola scripture after all

Some claim to be sola scriptura, but when it comes down to it even those probably are not. Many of them are simply following what someone has told them or what the official stand of their church group is. There are of course exceptions to almost anything. What is the Truth? God certainly knows.

 

[RainAndIceCream]

Many who deny the deity of Jesus say that he never claimed to be God. It is true that there is no record of Jesus ever saying the words, “I am God,” but many of the things he said were in face assertions of his deity.

For example, there is this statement in his Sermon on the Mount.

Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Matthew 5:10-12 ESV

He equated being persecuted for righteousness’ sake for being persecuted for his sake. Only God, the source of all righteousness, could make such a claim. And what about this statement near the end of the sermon?

Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?”And then will I declare to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV

In saying that he will decide who enters the kingdom he is claiming to be God, just as the Father is.

He claimed to have the authority to forgive sins.

And they came, bringing to him a paralytic carried by four men. And when they could not get near him because of the crowd, they removed the roof above him, and when they had made an opening, they let down the bed on which the paralytic lay.

And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts,“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Mark 2:3-7 ESV

The scribes were correct. Only God can forgive sins. Jesus was claiming to be God, and he backed up his claim by what he did next.

And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, “Why do you question these things in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.”

And he rose and immediately picked up his bed and went out before them all, so that they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”
Mark 2:8-12 ESV

There was one time when Jesus plainly said that he was God.

“Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”

So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:56-58 ESV

To understand the significance of what Jesus said we must look at what God said to Moses in their first encounter.

Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?”

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.” Exodus 3:13-15 ESV

Jesus was declaring that he was the God who spoke to Moses.

Jesus did make one statement which some say was a denial of his deity.

And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.”
Luke 18:18,19 ESV

It sounds as if Jesus was telling the ruler he shouldn’t call him good because only God is good, but in fact he didn’t say the ruler was wrong in what he said. He was asking him if he understood. The conversation ended with Jesus again saying he was God.

When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”
Luke 18:22 ESV

The ruler had asked how to inherit eternal life; Jesus said that the way was to follow him.

When we read the gospels in English it might not always be clear that Jesus said he was God, but those who heard him had no trouble understanding.

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5:17,18 ESV

For me, the proof that Jesus was God began in the old testament and was reiterated in a verse prior to his birth in the new. The other scriptures wherein Jesus states, when someone had seen him they had also seen the father, are further proof. However, the prophecy before Jesus birth that foretells Jesus was to be God on earth is proof enough for me.

Orthodox Jewish Bible Version: ) Isaiah 7:14 Therefore Hashem Himself shall give you an ot (sign); Hinei, HaAlmah (the unmarried young virgin) shall conceive, and bear Ben, and shall call Shmo Immanu El (G-d is with us) [See extensive commentary in The Translator To The Reader, page vii]. (NET Version)14 For this reason the Lord himself will give you a confirming sign. Look, this young woman is about to conceive and will give birth to a son. You, young woman, will name him Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23 “Look! The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will name him Emmanuel,” which means “God with us.”

 

[Truther]

GINOLJC, to all.

Not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. was not Jesus God before he came in flesh?

PICJAG.

No, Jesus in John 4:24 said God is a Spirit...him...him...

Jesus gave us the description of God right there.

Christianity would beg to differ with him in that conversation.

 

[101G]

No, Jesus in John 4:24 said God is a Spirit...him...him...

Jesus gave us the description of God right there.

Christianity would beg to differ with him in that conversation.

first thanks for the reply, second, Christianity would beg to differ, but not God, and his holy word. for it was the LORD JESUS who created and made all things, according to Isaiah 44:24, and John 1:3. so that right there disagree with christianity.

and as for God being a Spirit, again the Bible dispute the Christianity you speak of because in 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

see Truther, Jesus before he came in flesh is "GOD" the Spirit. as the apostle writes, "HE, meaning JESUS, was In, in, in, the prophets, not with flesh and blood, but in "Spirit", and Spirit here is capitalized, indicating the one and only true and living "GOD".

so your brand of Christianity is NOT lining up with the bible. so re-read 1 Peter 10 & 11 again.

thanks for the reply,

PICJAG,

 

[Truther]

first thanks for the reply, second, Christianity would beg to differ, but not God, and his holy word. for it was the LORD JESUS who created and made all things, according to Isaiah 44:24, and John 1:3. so that right there disagree with christianity.

and as for God being a Spirit, again the Bible dispute the Christianity you speak of because in 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:"
1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

see Truther, Jesus bwfore he came in flesh is "GOD" the Spirit. as the apostle writes, "HE, meaning JESUS, was In, in, in, the prophets, not with flesh and blood, but in "Spirit", and Spirit here is capitalized, indicating the one and only true and living "GOD".

so your brand of Christianity is lining up with the bible. so re-read 1 Peter 10 & 11 again.

thanks for the reply,

PICJAG,

Just a question here.

When Jesus came in the flesh, did he impregnate his own mother?

Oneness teaches the Father is the son, which impregnated his mother.

Trinity teaches the 2nd person fertilized himself a human nature via Mary's ovaries, which means the Son/human nature is the paternal creator of Jesus' flesh.(Jesus fathered himself).

Since the 2nd person and his newfound human nature is inseparable, Mary see's the one that impregnated her as her son.

Which one do you teach, since you think God is not a Spirit per Jesus' explanation in John 4:24?

 

[101G]

Just a question here.

When Jesus came in the flesh, did he impregnate his own mother?

Truther, Truther, Truther. JESUS don't have a mother, nor father, biologically or anything else. HE IS GOD. did God impregnate anyone to bring Adam into existance?, or who did God impregnate to bring the entire universe into being? see Truther, you're thinking NATRUAL between a male and a female. God can speak and the stars shine. do you reall believe that God need to come down from heaven and be the stud of the year on someone cover of a magazine? NO, ... by impregnating a creature woman whom he made? are you kidding? listen to the scriptures, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

do you know what "overshadow" here means? it's the Greek word,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

"to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means? not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. listen, the body is only conceived by a woman, not any spirit. only the body of flesh is conceived in the womb, not spirits.

understand, Jesus the Spirit, was not conceived, only his body that he came in, which was already prepared before he came. so no egg, nor sperm from any man or woman was used. Mary only "birthed" the body that GOD came in. Truther you should have alredy known this, it's basic bible study.

understand, GOD can just speak and it is, just read the creation account. .... "and God SAID" on and on......... God who is a Spirit don't need to lay with a woman to beget children, did you not hear John the baptist, Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." ok, get a sperm or an egg out of a stone.... do you understand now.

so no, Jesus did not impregnate Mary by means of the natural way, (sperm & egg). NO, Mary was only a surrogate mother who just only brought forth/birith the flesh that was in her. for that flesh was already prepared, listen, Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" this is what JESUS said of his "OWN" body before he came, Psalms 40:6 "Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required."
Psalms 40:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,"

see, this is Jesus in the OT as "GOD", the Spirit prophesying, as 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 states of his coming. BINGO.

Oneness teaches the Father is the son, which impregnated his mother.

NOT "diversified Oneness"...

Trinity teaches the 2nd person fertilized himself a human nature via Mary's ovaries, which means the Son/human nature is the paternal creator of Jesus' flesh.(Jesus fathered himself).

NOT "diversified Oneness"...

Since the 2nd person and his newfound human nature is inseparable, Mary see's the one that impregnated her as her son.

NOT "diversified Oneness"... he is her "CREATOR".

Which one do you teach, since you think God is not a Spirit per Jesus' explanation in John 4:24?

you said that, not me, we teach God is a "DIVERSITY" of himself in flesh, and that "DIVERSITY", is the EQUAL share, called the "OFFSPRING....


see it's hard for people to accept what they have never heard before, like in the .......................... TRUTH.
our Lord said it best, Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" see, a new tongue is not an unknown tongue, nor another tongue, it's neither. but a NEW TONGUE, is a tongue that one have not heard before, because they have not heard the TRUTH before. no need to get upset with 101G, just do your ... christian duty and prove 101G wrong. that's if you're right yourself..... as the scriptures states "prove all things and hold fast that which is Good". so it's just that simple, prove 101G wrong... or...


PICJAG.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

. Even on the cross, at is death he asked why God had abandon him.

Actually, some think "abandoned" is a bad translation.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

@theophilus I never rejected the Trinity and made sure I made that clear.
The two things I was discussing were;
How I find it difficult to comprehend, and how I find that there is little direct evidence in scripture
Then I asked if anyone truly understands the Trinity.

The post you referred to starts with...


And yet ur response was...


So again I ask you to show me exactly were I am rejecting the Trinity?

Dont worry, many have trouble grasping it. For myself, I understand that Jesus is God but I do not understand the Holy Spirit being something other than God, because it says God is Spirit. And I think this Spirit that God is IS the Holy Spirit. So my mind grasps a bi-nity more than a trinity.

 

[101G]

Actually, some think "abandoned" is a bad translation.

now saying that any is right or wrong, here this abandonment or Forsaking was a GOOD thing to unleash the power of the Spirit in human resurrected form. if Christ whould have never died, hence the, "Spirit", the annoting that was on that flesh, could have never quicken into what it is today, "GLORIFIED". so that abandonment or Forsaking was a GOOD thing. because now he fills both heaven and earth as he did before, but now in a glorified body.

PICJAG.