Did Jesus claim to be God?

[Peterlag]

It is to be noted that Luther did not want to leave Roman Catholicism…he simply wanted the church to clean up its act and get rid of its clearly unbiblical teachings and actions…..it took great courage to pin his thesis to the church door….outlining the way the church was indulging itself in unchristian doctrines and teachings. He knew that the hierarchy were behaving like Pharisees and he wanted change to begin with them….it never did, but it did at least one good thing…..it put God’s word back into the hands of the people so that they could at least follow through in their own studies like the ancient Boereans and check out the teachings for themselves in God’s word. (Acts 17:10-12) Having that advantage gives the church members no excuse for the cultivated ignorance that permeates the church, even today.

It is by and large a performance based religion that makes sure that no one asks the hard questions and follows through by simply turning up to Mass and taking the wafer...trusting that these church leaders are actually who they say they are….”by their fruits” Jesus said we would recognize his true disciples.
The fruitage of this church system is appalling…..the majority of the so called “Christians” can be homeless and starving on the streets and no one knows or cares for them. That is NOT the “Christianity” that Jesus promoted….

Paul wrote at 2 Cor 8:12-15…
”For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has,

For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not want to make it easy for others, but difficult for you; 14 but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 15 Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little.”

Christianity is a brotherhood where those who believe come together as a family, united in worship. Those who take the lead in the congregation “know” the sheep and are under instruction from God and his Christ to care for every one of them…..if a lamb is lost they were instructed by Jesus to leave the 99 and go search for that lost one and bring them home…..
Rhere could be no poverty threatening any Christian’s life because their brother would make sure that they had enough to eat…even going without themselves to share what little they had. This is how you identify genuine Christianity…..not just by how they treat their neighbors, but how much they do for those related to them in the faith. (Gal 6:10)….so that “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little.”


If only people could see the deception…..it goes way back….
There is no excuse for anyone today NOT to know more than an indoctrinated Catholic priest did in the 16th century.

So many versions of “Christianity”….but common sense tells us that they cannot all be correct…there can only be ONE TRUTH…..there cannot many correct versions of it.

In “the time of the end”, just before he was to come as judge, Jesus said he would appoint a “faithful and discreet slave” who would feed his fellow slaves, their “food at the proper time”….(Matt 24:45) interestingly, Jesus introduces this “slave“ by asking “who then is this faithful slave”? So we must first identify “him” and then sit at his table to feed with all the other slaves…..the same “food” served at “the proper time”. It’s not a buffet where we can serve ourselves, but a complete spiritual meal that all enjoy together with no one refusing any of it as not provided through the Master’s appointed slave. “He” is under instruction from his Master to serve the same food to all. That is what unites the. (1 Cor 1:10)

Jesus said that his “food” was doing the will of his Father….(John 4:34)

I have graduated. I no longer try to get God or Jesus Christ to work with me or to get close to me. I now spend much of my time right inside the spirit as close as I can get right in their face. The Greek word menō translated "abide" often deals with being in him, which I'm very concerned about when it comes to walking in Christ, which I believe is the same as walking in the spirit. To be in him or to abide in him deals with remaining or continuing to be present. To dwell, live, and be within him to the end that we are operative in him by his divine influence and energy. My first red flag that started me looking into how to do this was when I realized it's the Catholics that teach we are sinners. They teach us to look at ourselves and our sin. I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

 

[Fred J]

Some of this stuff you guys say just blows my mind.

Apparently, you're 'shortsighted', and have not added onto your faith.

1.) Isaiah 7:14 does not say... Jesus by Himself, is the visible image of the invisible GOD.

Obviously you're on the wrong path, for it is in Colossians 1:15

And also by himself the God of and over all creation, and visited His creation to whom it may concern.

You're shortsighted apparently, not knowing the scriptures based on what is above. And, you want to decide by the Scriptures you basically know out of context, and make Jesus the 'underdog'?

 

[Fred J]

Can you pick one of these verses that says God has a God? Just one verse at a time.

Hebrews 1 : 8 & 9

 

[Fred J]

I teach that we should look at Christ and to walk in his spirit.

When someone shortsighted teach, one able to look only what's near and probably walk only a short distance.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Hebrews 1 : 8 & 9

V 8….“But of the Son He says,
“YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,
AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.”

How does the Bible itself explain these verses?

Rev 3:21 Jesus says…
”To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.”

What does sitting on the throne with Jesus mean?……and what does Jesus sitting on his Father’s throne mean? All are sitting in positions of kingship….

The ones who conquer the world as Jesus did (his saints) will sit down with him on his throne as co rulers in his kingdom (Rev 20:6)…..just as Jesus sits on his Father’s throne as co-ruler with him…this is about rulership not godship. Co-regency is nothing new.

The next verse clarifies the situation by saying….
V 9….
“YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATEDLAWLESSNESS;
THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU
WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”

This is quoted from the NASB and where there is capitalization it is a quote from the the OT.
This verse is quoted from Psalm 45:6-7 and it was addressed to a human king.
But prophetically, it was about the Messiah.

Notice too that this says….“God your God anointed you” so it’s not talking about God Jehovah, but of the one God anointed to be ‘above his companions’.…not something anyone can say about the Almighty!

Greek phrasing can sometimes be difficult to translate accurately into English and this is one of those verses that Christendom loves to manipulate to force their beliefs into scripture. God cannot have a God….the idea is ridiculous. Jesus can have a God because he is the son of that God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

When someone shortsighted teach, one able to look only what's near and probably walk only a short distance.

What an intelligent reply…… good grief!

 

[Peterlag]

When someone shortsighted teach, one able to look only what's near and probably walk only a short distance.

There's nothing shortsighted in Christ. You probably don't know that because you walk in your flesh and call it Christian.

 

[Peterlag]

Hebrews 1 : 8 & 9

B. F. Wescott (a Trinitarian and most well-known for the Wescott-Hort Greek New Testament) put the translation, “God is thy throne” as primary in his commentary. He did not think that the vocative “O God” was the best choice given the scope of Scripture. Wescott wrote: “It is scarcely possible that elohim in the original [Hebrew text of Ps. 45:6] can be addressed to the king. The presumption, therefore, is against the belief that ho theos [God] is a vocative in the LXX [Septuagint]. Thus on the whole it seems best to adopt in the first clause the rendering: God is Thy throne (or, Thy throne is God), that is, ‘Thy kingdom is founded upon God, the immovable Rock. The phrase ‘God is Thy throne’ is not indeed found elsewhere.

 

[Peterlag]

Apparently, you're 'shortsighted', and have not added onto your faith.

Obviously you're on the wrong path, for it is in Colossians 1:15

You're shortsighted apparently, not knowing the scriptures based on what is above. And, you want to decide by the Scriptures you basically know out of context, and make Jesus the 'underdog'?

Here's your quote from page 431... "Jesus by Himself, is the visible image of the invisible GOD. And also by himself the God of and over all creation, and visited His creation to whom it may concern. ( Isaiah 7: 14 )"

If you now want to talk about Colossians 1:15. We can do that to.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

 

[Wrangler]

Can you pick one of these verses that says God has a God? Just one verse at a time.

Hebrews 1 : 8 & 9

I love how strong folks are into eisegesis. Let's take a looksy at the one verse held out to show that God has a God.

Hebrews 1:8-9
New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, is[a] forever and ever,
and the scepter of righteousness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;[c]
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

Growing up in an Irish community, everyone was OF somebody else, O'Conner, O'donnel, etc. The throne David and his descendants sit on is OF God. It does not make David or his descendants God.

Who Anointed David and his descendants? God.

None of this remotely comes close to satisfying the claim that God has a God. Of course, if you rely on Eisegesis, well, it can mean anything you want it to.

 

[Wrangler]

Awesome demonstration that Jesus is not the Almighty God!!!!
I am very glad that others, and not only we JWs, recognize the truth out of the Scriptures and can clearly prove it.

In my conversations, these folks deny a rejection criteria. What an intellectual trick; assert X and deny it can be proven false!

 

[Fred J]

Here's your quote from page 431... "Jesus by Himself, is the visible image of the invisible GOD. And also by himself the God of and over all creation, and visited His creation to whom it may concern. ( Isaiah 7: 14 )"

If you now want to talk about Colossians 1:15. We can do that to.

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the “image of God” Colossians 1:15; 2 Corinthians 4:4). If Christ is the image of God, then he cannot be God because a person cannot be himself and an image of himself at the same time. Jesus can be called the “image” of God because he always did the will of God, and because he was the image of God is why he could say you had seen the Father if you had seen him.

Shortsighted indeed, that's how limited your insight is, sky is your limit carnal yourself.

A person can be Himself as the Son, and likewise be the image of His FATHER at the same time, since they are one with each other.

As the saying of man goes, 'Like FATHER like Son.'

If you still don't get it, then run with your fallacy and deceive others who have itching ears.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Shortsighted indeed, that's how limited your insight is, sky is your limit carnal yourself.

A person can be Himself as the Son, and likewise the image of His FATHER, since they are one with each other.

As the saying goes, 'Like FATHER like Son.'

If you still don't get it, then run with your fallacy and deceive others who have itching ears.

I hope the readers here see the truth in what you do not say.....because you have no defence, and so you must act as if no one has said anything you cannot refute. The truth is, you have not and cannot refute the scriptural evidence put before you because of your own indoctrination. It’s a special kind of ‘blindness’ that Paul spoke about. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

The truth is right there in front of you, but the denial is not from the scriptural evidence you provided, but from belief in a “church-made” doctrine that you hold so tightly (“you cannot be a Christian unless you believe in the trinity”) that it does not allow the truth to penetrate.
It comes from not wanting to admit that you could be wrong about it, and what that means about all the other doctrines that the church promotes. If the foundation is seen to be crumbling, then will the whole building collapse? Heaven forbid!!! But that is exactly what the Bible predicts.

If scripture does not teach something except by inference and the twisting of words, then no one has the right to make a doctrine out of it.....once you do that, you will answer to the Almighty for what you teach.

“Babylon the great” is a bigger version of original Babylon, which was the springboard from which all false religion spread into the world. The devil tempted Nimrod to rebel and to build his own empire and he incited others to join him, just as satan did in recruiting his fellow angels.

When God told the human descendants of Noah to ‘spread abroad in the earth’, Nimrod dug his heels in and decided to do the opposite. He built cities instead and the city of Babel was going to have an enormous tower “with its top in the heavens” perhaps so that if God should ever flood the world again, they would have a place of refuge....or perhaps it represented a Sovereignty that even God could not topple....the Bible does not say......but it does say that God thwarted their purpose by confusing the language of the tower builders so that in their confusion and lack of communication, they abandoned the project and the various language groups left to go and build their own communities in far away places.....this then allowed false religious ideas to spread as they took these notions with them.....the same core of beliefs are found in all false worship of the devil’s making. (Gen 11:1-9)
Which include.....
1) A multiplicity of gods, often in triads.
2) Belief that the soul is immortal and does not die, but is released at death to go to other places.
3) That there are two opposing destinations for these souls to go...a heaven of eternal happiness with God or a fiery hell of eternal torment.

None of these beliefs originated with the Bible’s author.....but are found in false religions all over the world.

Could you yourself be a victim of the greatest con artist in existence...one who has succeeded in tempting two perfect, sinless individuals to sin against their Sovereign King? How much easier is it to tempt weakened, sinful humans, who inherited their condition genetically from those two. (Rom 5:12)

The very reason why Christ came, was to buy back what the first humans threw away...everlasting life in paradise on earth. He redeemed us so that God’s first purpose for humankind could go ahead. This earth was designed for us to enjoy forever...it was never a training ground for heaven. Yet Christendom’s sole focus is on going to heaven......so they miss the whole point of God allowing satan to rule the world as a demonstration of how bad things can get when we think we can do better. An object lesson the human race will never forget.

This exercise is not wasted on those who see the big picture....the “short sighted” cannot see past their own future glory in heaven with Jesus.....the ones who go to heaven are small in number and chosen by God for a special role as “kings and priests”, (Rev 20:6) ruling with Jesus in his heavenly kingdom. The majority of saved Christians will live on earth, ruled by the best government they have ever had! (Rev 21:2-4)

When the judge come to make an accounting with those who call him “Lord”.....there will be wails of horror when they realise that they have never served the interests of the true God or his chosen King on earth...they were suckered into a counterfeit system that mimicked the original at the beginning, but over time developed into full blown apostasy.....just like the Jews in Jesus’ day. (Matt 7:21-23)

The whole “church” system gained its beliefs from Roman Catholicism, not the Bible. They are the daughters of the harlot “Babylon the great”....which is the whole world system of false religion that teaches the same core beliefs that originated in ancient Babylon.

God’s command to his “people” is to “Get out of her” if we don’t want to go down with her. (Rev 18:4-5)

We are all on notice...every single one of us need to heed what the Bible says and to extract ourselves from the teachings that are promoted in satan’s counterfeit “Christianity”.....which is nothing but a confused and bickering mess.....God could never be the author of such confusion.

Put your pride aside and see what is true.....like Paul.

 

[Peterlag]

Shortsighted indeed, that's how limited your insight is, sky is your limit carnal yourself.

A person can be Himself as the Son, and likewise the image of His FATHER, since they are one with each other.

As the saying goes, 'Like FATHER like Son.'

If you still don't get it, then run with your fallacy and deceive others who have itching ears.

Are we back to Jesus is 100 percent God and 100 percent man and that's how he can be both Jesus and Father. Which I think would make him a 200 percent life form or would it be 300 percent if he's God the Father, God the son, and God the man?

 

[Fred J]

It does not make David or his descendants God.

It does, His last descendant to be crowned as King, prophesied to be named. 'Immanuel" (GOD is with us)

 

[Fred J]

I hope the readers here see the truth in what you do not say.....because you have no defence, and so you must act as if no one has said anything you cannot refute. The truth is, you have not and cannot refute the scriptural evidence put before you because of your own indoctrination. It’s a special kind of ‘blindness’ that Paul spoke about. (2 Cor 4:3-4)

The truth is right there in front of you, but the denial is not from the scriptural evidence you provided, but from belief in a “church-made” doctrine that you hold so tightly (“you cannot be a Christian unless you believe in the trinity”) that it does not allow the truth to penetrate.
It comes from not wanting to admit that you could be wrong about it, and what that means about all the other doctrines that the church promotes. If the foundation is seen to be crumbling, then will the whole building collapse? Heaven forbid!!! But that is exactly what the Bible predicts.

If scripture does not teach something except by inference and the twisting of words, then no one has the right to make a doctrine out of it.....once you do that, you will answer to the Almighty for what you teach.

“Babylon the great” is a bigger version of original Babylon, which was the springboard from which all false religion spread into the world. The devil tempted Nimrod to rebel and to build his own empire and he incited others to join him, just as satan did in recruiting his fellow angels.

When God told the human descendants of Noah to ‘spread abroad in the earth’, Nimrod dug his heels in and decided to do the opposite. He built cities instead and the city of Babel was going to have an enormous tower “with its top in the heavens” perhaps so that if God should ever flood the world again, they would have a place of refuge....or perhaps it represented a Sovereignty that even God could not topple....the Bible does not say......but it does say that God thwarted their purpose by confusing the language of the tower builders so that in their confusion and lack of communication, they abandoned the project and the various language groups left to go and build their own communities in far away places.....this then allowed false religious ideas to spread as they took these notions with them.....the same core of beliefs are found in all false worship of the devil’s making. (Gen 11:1-9)
Which include.....
1) A multiplicity of gods, often in triads.
2) Belief that the soul is immortal and does not die, but is released at death to go to other places.
3) That there are two opposing destinations for these souls to go...a heaven of eternal happiness with God or a fiery hell of eternal torment.

None of these beliefs originated with the Bible’s author.....but are found in false religions all over the world.

Could you yourself be a victim of the greatest con artist in existence...one who has succeeded in tempting two perfect, sinless individuals to sin against their Sovereign King? How much easier is it to tempt weakened, sinful humans, who inherited their condition genetically from those two. (Rom 5:12)

The very reason why Christ came, was to buy back what the first humans threw away...everlasting life in paradise on earth. He redeemed us so that God’s first purpose for humankind could go ahead. This earth was designed for us to enjoy forever...it was never a training ground for heaven. Yet Christendom’s sole focus is on going to heaven......so they miss the whole point of God allowing satan to rule the world as a demonstration of how bad things can get when we think we can do better. An object lesson the human race will never forget.

This exercise is not wasted on those who see the big picture....the “short sighted” cannot see past their own future glory in heaven with Jesus.....the ones who go to heaven are small in number and chosen by God for a special role as “kings and priests”, (Rev 20:6) ruling with Jesus in his heavenly kingdom. The majority of saved Christians will live on earth, ruled by the best government they have ever had! (Rev 21:2-4)

When the judge come to make an accounting with those who call him “Lord”.....there will be wails of horror when they realise that they have never served the interests of the true God or his chosen King on earth...they were suckered into a counterfeit system that mimicked the original at the beginning, but over time developed into full blown apostasy.....just like the Jews in Jesus’ day. (Matt 7:21-23)

The whole “church” system gained its beliefs from Roman Catholicism, not the Bible. They are the daughters of the harlot “Babylon the great”....which is the whole world system of false religion that teaches the same core beliefs that originated in ancient Babylon.

God’s command to his “people” is to “Get out of her” if we don’t want to go down with her. (Rev 18:4-5)

We are all on notice...every single one of us need to heed what the Bible says and to extract ourselves from the teachings that are promoted in satan’s counterfeit “Christianity”.....which is nothing but a confused and bickering mess.....God could never be the author of such confusion.

Put your pride aside and see what is true.....like Paul.

You've taken up the role of a 'busybody', and a 'stirrer', just because i stop replying you, since we have nothing in common.

 

[Wrangler]

It does

So, David and all his descendants are God?! Wow!

 

[Fred J]

So, David and all his descendants are God?! Wow!

Are you 'silly' or 'confused', didn't i post that his last descendant to be crowned as King ?

Do you know who is the last King of Israel ?

 

[Wrangler]

we have nothing in common.

The effect of IDOLATRY, put above the most important commandment - above love of God and love of each other.

Image bearers of God having nothing in common?! Really. You, @Aunty Jane and I have everything in common but mere manmade doctrine.

 

[Fred J]

True born again readers, beware of 'imposters' and 'counterfeits' among us. They are not outsiders but sneaked in 'insiders', over learned, puffed up, and wise in their own conceit. They only scatter what is already sown in the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.

Jesus Himself made it clear, "Your worst enemy will be in your own household.' (household of faith)

And, "If you have ears, listen and pay attention,......"

Hebrews 1: 8&9 - This is after Jesus ascended into Heaven and sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on High.

'But unto the Son HE saith, "Thy Throne O God, ........................................................'

GOD the FATHER refer to the Son as, 'O God' ?

Also in the following verse ....