Did Jesus claim to be God?

[Webers_Home]

~

The Holy Spirit is not God….it emanates from God as his boundless power….directed to whomever
and wherever it is needed.

It needs to be pointed out from time to time that that Watchtower Society's
version of the Holy Spirit is coupled with their position that Jesus' crucified
dead body has yet to be restored to life. They maintain that his body is still
deceased and its remains are squirreled away somewhere on Earth in a
place, and in a condition, known only to God.

Now it's only common sense that if the Society's thoughts are mistaken
about something as significant as the status of Jesus' crucified dead body,
then it's pretty safe to conclude the Society thoughts about the Holy Spirit
are mistaken too.
_

 

[Fred J]

The Holy Spirit is not God….it emanates from God as his boundless power….directed to whomever and wherever it is needed.

This is your theory and gibberish nonsense, and from the spirit of error.

First of all, Scripture does not address the Holy Spirit as, 'it', but rather, 'He'.

Scripturally, Jesus is God on His own over all creation, yet subjected to the only true GOD. And, He is the Word of the only true GOD, and also the visible image of the only true invisible GOD.

The Holy Spirit on His own is God, since He is the power of the only true GOD. He descended on Jesus here on earth, and when Jesus spoke during His ministry representing the only true GOD. He the Holy Spirit is the power of the only true GOD in Jesus, which went out to accomplish.

Towards the end, Jesus was raised to life by He the Holy Spirit as well. Moreover, Jesus had to ascend home in order for He the Holy Spirit to be sent down to the Apostles, to accomplish their given commission.

 

[APAK]

~


It needs to be pointed out from time to time that that Watchtower Society's
version of the Holy Spirit is coupled with their position that Jesus' crucified
dead body has yet to be restored to life. They maintain that his body is still
deceased and its remains are squirreled away somewhere on Earth in a
place, and in a condition, known only to God.

Now it's only common sense that if the Society's thoughts are mistaken
about something as significant as the status of Jesus' crucified dead body,
then it's pretty safe to conclude the Society thoughts about the Holy Spirit
are mistaken too.
_

I'm surprised you had to become offensive to AJ over this topic. And because she said that the Holy Spirit is not a person. I'm not JW and I too believe the same as her on this subject.

The Father God owns his own spirit of course, and it's holy. In fact his spirit is the source of true goodness and holiness. His spirit extends into this world and into his chosen, by design.

Nothing in scripture speaks to another so-called person called the holy spirit pulling the strings independently of the Father, that is not the Father's spirit in the first place.
This is clearly where this triune construct of a god that I believe you will give your life for, clearly and catastrophically fails. And it's amazing to me why folks still believe in this extra-scriptural doctrine inserted at the end of the 4th Century that continues to cause confusion on who is the one person God and who is his one person Son of a created/made distinct human spirit.

 

[APAK]

Colossians 2:9 (DRV)
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;
Colossians 2:9 (ASV)
9 for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,
Colossians 2:9 (AMP)
9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].
Colossians 2:9 (CSBBible)
9 For the entire fullness of God's nature dwells bodily in Christ,
Colossians 2:9 (CEB)
9 All the fullness of deity lives in Christ's body.
Colossians 2:9 (CJB)
9 For in him, bodily, lives the fullness of all that God is.
Colossians 2:9 (CEV)
9 God lives fully in Christ.
Colossians 2:9 (Darby)
9 For in him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily;
Colossians 2:9 (ETRV)
9 I say this because all of God lives in Christ fully, even in his life on earth.
Colossians 2:9 (ESV)
9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9 (GW)
9 All of God lives in Christ's body,
Colossians 2:9 (HCSB)
9 For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
Colossians 2:9 (ICB)
9 All of God lives in Christ fully (even when Christ was on earth).
Colossians 2:9 (KJV)
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:9 (MLB)
9 For in Him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9 (NET1)
9 For in him all the fullness of deity lives[20] in bodily form,
Colossians 2:9 (NASB77)
9 For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Colossians 2:9 (NCV)
9 All of God lives in Christ fully (even when Christ was on earth),
Colossians 2:9 (NIV)
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
Colossians 2:9 (NIV2011)
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
Colossians 2:9 (NJB)
9 In him, in bodily form, lives divinity in all its fullness,
Colossians 2:9 (NLT2)
9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
Colossians 2:9 (NRSV)
9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9 (RSV)
9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,
Colossians 2:9 (TLB)
9 For in Christ there is all of God in a human body;
Colossians 2:9 (MSG)
9 Everything of God gets expressed in him, so you can see and hear him clearly.
Colossians 2:9 (TEV)
9 For the full content of divine nature lives in Christ, in his humanity,
Colossians 2:9 (Webster's Bible)
9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:9 (YLT)
9 because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily,

And I wager you do not know what this single one note compromised verse means, besides parroting some nonsense of what you were unconsciously fed years ago.

 

[APAK]

What was the word previously?

Oh, if I can remember and I'm slow in finding the exact original data,.... it was in the form of divinity or divine nature.
let me find it in my brain again and on some papers..

Godhead (or middle English godhood) refers to the divine nature, essence or substance (ousia) of the one Father God.

Here are some more data points that I wrote over the years..

For Godhead, these three different words are used:

Theiotés is used in Romans 1:20

Theion is used in Acts 7:29 – means God in general.

Divine Being
Θεῖον (Theion)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 2304: Divine; subst: the Deity. From theos; godlike: - divine, godhead.

Because Greek adjectives are inflected for case, gender, and number, they are often used to stand in as nouns.

G2304 appears exactly 2 other times.

2 Peter 1:

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

Theotes is used in Col 2:9

In other translations godhead is replaced by: invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature.

For a Trinitarian YHWH means all three of their persons are of the godhead of course.

John Wycliffe introduced the term godhede into English Bible versions in two places, and, though somewhat archaic, the term survives in modern English because of its use in three places of the Tyndale New Testament (1525), the Geneva Bible (1560/1599), and King James Version (1611). In that translation, the word was used to translate three different Koine Greek words:

Verse	Greek	Romanization	Type	Translation	Vulgate 405	Wycliffe 1395	Tyndale 1525	ESV 2001
Acts 17:29	θεῖον	theion[3]	adjective	"divine, godly"	divinum	that godli thing	godhed	the divine being
Romans 1:20	θειότης	theiotēs[4]	noun	"divinity, divine nature"	divinitas	godhed	godhed	divine nature
Col 2:9	θεότης	theotēs[5]	noun	"deity"	divinitas	the Godhed	the godheed	deity

I hope this helps you appreciate and know the confusion this artificial word has causes over the centuries.

Fortunately, some new Bible translations have rediscovered the truth and reverted back to words such as deity, divine being, nature.

And you must remember that this divine sense was IN the Son not that the Son was or the source of this divinity in the first place. It was placed into him by design and by the desire of his God. Most folks though just dismiss this obvious written fact clearly visible in pertinent scripture out of hand, and just pompously waltz over it and prefer to parrot words that force the Son to be the same as God himself. Can can I say ignorance with a capital I, to use the word strictly as per the dictionary. Cannot they read and think I wonder...as they read and understand the local context surround the verses under study. Of course, it's not that is not their nature to be truthful it seems.

 

[Jack]

And I wager you do not know what this single one note compromised verse means, besides parroting some nonsense of what you were unconsciously fed years ago.

And if I was a betting man, I'd wager you're simply being evasive.

 

[Jack]

Oh, if I can remember and I'm slow in finding the exact original data,.... it was in the form of divinity or divine nature.
let me find it in my brain again and on some papers..

Godhead (or middle English godhood) refers to the divine nature, essence or substance (ousia) of the one Father God.

Here are some more data points that I wrote over the years..

For Godhead, these three different words are used:

Theiotés is used in Romans 1:20

Theion is used in Acts 7:29 – means God in general.

Divine Being
Θεῖον (Theion)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 2304: Divine; subst: the Deity. From theos; godlike: - divine, godhead.

Because Greek adjectives are inflected for case, gender, and number, they are often used to stand in as nouns.

G2304 appears exactly 2 other times.

2 Peter 1:

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

Theotes is used in Col 2:9

In other translations godhead is replaced by: invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature.

For a Trinitarian YHWH means all three of their persons are of the godhead of course.
John Wycliffe introduced the term godhede into English Bible versions in two places, and, though somewhat archaic, the term survives in modern English because of its use in three places of the Tyndale New Testament (1525), the Geneva Bible (1560/1599), and King James Version (1611). In that translation, the word was used to translate three different Koine Greek words:

Verse	Greek	Romanization	Type	Translation	Vulgate 405	Wycliffe 1395	Tyndale 1525	ESV 2001
Acts 17:29	θεῖον	theion[3]	adjective	"divine, godly"	divinum	that godli thing	godhed	the divine being
Romans 1:20	θειότης	theiotēs[4]	noun	"divinity, divine nature"	divinitas	godhed	godhed	divine nature
Col 2:9	θεότης	theotēs[5]	noun	"deity"	divinitas	the Godhed	the godheed	deity

I hope this helps you appreciate and know the confusion this artificial word has causes over the centuries.

Fortunately, some new Bible translations have rediscovered the truth and reverted back to words such as deity, divine being, nature.

And you must remember that this divine sense was IN the Son not that the Son was or the source of this divinity in the first place. It was placed into him by design and by the desire of his God. Most folks though just dismiss this obvious written fact clearly visible in pertinent scripture out of hand, and just pompously waltz over it and prefer to parrot words that force the Son to be the same as God himself. Can can I say ignorance with a capital I, to use the word strictly as per the dictionary. Cannot they read and think I wonder...as they read and understand the local context surround the verses under study. Of course, it's not that is not their nature to be truthful it seems.

Jesus' own disciples that He taught personally believed that Jesus is God!

 

[APAK]

And if I was a betting man, I'd wager you're simply being evasive.

And pray tell why would I be evasive when I've hit your responses head-on, openly, without and need and any purpose of evasion (no pun intended here). Are you sure you are not psychologically projecting the real you on or for me?

I would get that fixed if I were you.

Man, is that the typical excuse you have for not wanting to answer my queries. Kind of lame I would think mate.

 

[Jack]

And pray tell why would I be evasive when I've hit your responses head-on, openly, without and need and any purpose of evasion (no pun intended here). Are you sure you are not psychologically projecting the real you on or for me?

I would get that fixed if I were you.

Man, is that the typical excuse you have for not wanting to answer my queries. Kind of lame I would think mate.

"Jesus' own disciples that He taught personally believed that Jesus is God!"

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, it’s only in the trinitarian translations based on the KJV…..a rather useless dinosaur in this 21st century but useful for maintaining this doctrine in Christendom because it supports it in every way.

Look it up in Strongs Concordance and see for yourself…..there is no “godhead”….that is a mistranslation of “theios”…which means….

1. “a general name of deities or divinities as used by the Greeks”.

It is related to “theos” which means “God” (capital “G”…Yahweh) only with the definite article (ho) where it is necessary to identify him. It refers to other divine beings as well. Was Jesus a divine being? Absolutely! But he was not Yahweh….and never once said he was.

You should be more careful when looking up words

For godhead is a translation of the word "theiotes" which means divine nature. Which is what the word refers to. Your watchtower masters are wrong.

While the English in the KJV is archaic, it is still a most trustworthy translation.

God head appears three times in SCripture:

Col. 2, Rom. 1, and Acts 19.

the rest of your argument concerning theios is moot and inaccurate..

Theios is a manifestation of divine nature while theiotes is the divine nature. I hope you can see the difference!

”For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form”.

Again this is “theotēs” but translated a different way.
Being “divine” and having a “divine nature” does not make Jesus, Yahweh. He is and always has been, “the son of God”…..never was he called “God the Son” which in Roman Catholicism was almost a play on words because they were sun worshippers and turned Jesus into “God the Sun”. Looking at statues of Zeus, we see the Roman version of Jesus.

Being divine and having a divine nature is by very definition one who is God . Jesus HImself declared He was God, Paul did, John did Isaiah did, James did, the Psalmists did etc.etc.etc.

This has been exposed countless times as another erroneous pro-trinitarian mistranslation.
Read in Greek, it doesn’t say what the English translation implies…..

The use of the definite article separates the Word as a divine and separate being to his Father.
Correctly translated, it should read….
“In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word (ho logos) was with God (ho theos), and the Word (ho logos) was divine( theos).”

The definite article is seen only once in that verse referring to Yahweh….it is missing from the second mention of “theos” as we see in Strongs definition, this word does not only mean Yahweh.
You have swallowed an ancient lie….who told you it was true? Not God.

No you are wrong again! You are saying what trinitarians say.

Jesus is not the God He was with, but He is equally divine as the god He is with. I am glad you have gown away from teh anarthrous noun false argument.

Trinitarians agree that jesus is as equally divine as HIs Fahter but is also a separate person as His Father.

 

[Webers_Home]

~

I'm not JW and I too believe the same as her on this subject.

That being your current position; then it's quite possible you're unaware that
the spirit of Christ spoken of by 1Pet 3:18-20 is the self-same "my spirit" of
Gen 6:3.
_

 

[APAK]

~


That being your current position; then it's quite possible you're unaware that
the spirit of Christ spoken of by 1Pet 3:18-20 is the self-same "my spirit" of
Gen 6:3.
_

Well firstly, it is presumptuous of you to think this is my current position. It is my unwavering position.

Secondly, don't you mean 'Spirit' of the Father God, the LORD of all who raised his Son from being dead, who is mentioned in those verses?

As in Gen 6:3, the Spirit of YHWH is always immortal, and the spirit of man is always mortal. Now Jesus the Christ became the first human being of many more to come, resurrected from his death, and became an immortal human spirit.

 

[Webers_Home]

~

It is my unwavering position.

Well; I would suggest that you not be thinking of yourself as infallible, but
instead capable of honest mistakes, and vulnerable to subtle influences.
_

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry but it is you who have been misinformed…..there it states, not that Jesus is part of a godhead, but that “the fullness” of the “divine nature” of his God and Father was in him. “Like father….like son”….”the image of the invisible God”.

Wrong again. Jesus nature is divine or god. He was not an angel who got infused with a divine nature. He is inherently god in His nature

And you do not understand the word image (karackter) in the letter of Hebrews.

There is not a single verse of scripture that says so. There are not three persons in any godhead…the RCC made that up and fed that lie to their ignorant members who had no way to check the scriptures for themselves and they could not trust their church leaders any more than the “lost sheep” could trust the Pharisees in Jesus‘ day.…..”blind guides” Jesus called them….and there is a big surprise awaiting those who swallow the lie and despite being told the truth…..they denied it. They were too busy pointing fingers and crying “heresy! “ at the ones who were trying to warn them.

Don’t you see history repeating??

There are numerous passages that declare Jesus is God and teh Holy Spirit is God. but your watchtower masters have indoctrinated you with ana bominable retranslation of Scripture that robs God of who He is.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

'Godhead' was invented and added into scripture about 500 years or so give or take decades +/-.....research it...I did and I was not surprised as it never really did fit into the context where it was written.

Well then we await your research you say you did, to back up your claim here.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus' own disciples that He taught personally believed that Jesus is God!

lets give two examples real fast .
When john kneeled before the angel in heaven , the angel said NOPE , WORSHIP GOD .
so we see that the angle corrected JOHN .
We see also where JESUS corrected peter when peter had said NOT SO LORD this shall not be done unto you .
BUT and this is a huge but too .
WHEN thomas knelt before JESUS and said MY LORD and MY GOD
did JESUS REBUKE HIM and say Thomas worship GOD not me . NOPE . NO HE DID NOT .
and thomas not only had called him LORD , BUT MY LORD and MY GOD .
Ever wonder why JESUS also calleth himself the alpha and omega in revelation ....................
Because GOD IS HIS WORD , GOD IS HIS SPIRIT , IT is HIS OWN ESSENCE coming forth of HIM
and the WORD truly did become FLESH and dwelt amongst them .
Great is the mystery of godliness , GOD was manifest IN THE FLESH . yeah , PAUL WRITES THAT TOO .

 

[Waiting on him]

Great is the mystery of godliness , GOD was manifest IN THE FLESH . yeah , PAUL WRITES THAT TOO .

God was also manifest in Paul’s flesh.

Ever wonder why JESUS also calleth himself the alpha and omega in revelation ....................

I’ve often considered this, seeing God has no beginning nor end.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well then we await your research you say you did, to back up your claim here.

hold not thy breath .
Have you ever noticed that men often have to rely on scholars who relied on newer texts so called
in order to try and justify their error .
I see this all the time . as for me , if its in the bible , I SIMPLY SAY BELIEVE IT and TEST all men against THAT .

 

[GracePeace]

Oh, if I can remember and I'm slow in finding the exact original data,.... it was in the form of divinity or divine nature.
let me find it in my brain again and on some papers..

Godhead (or middle English godhood) refers to the divine nature, essence or substance (ousia) of the one Father God.

Here are some more data points that I wrote over the years..

For Godhead, these three different words are used:

Theiotés is used in Romans 1:20

Theion is used in Acts 7:29 – means God in general.

Divine Being
Θεῖον (Theion)
Adjective - Accusative Neuter Singular
Strong's 2304: Divine; subst: the Deity. From theos; godlike: - divine, godhead.

Because Greek adjectives are inflected for case, gender, and number, they are often used to stand in as nouns.

G2304 appears exactly 2 other times.

2 Peter 1:

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

Theotes is used in Col 2:9

In other translations godhead is replaced by: invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature.

For a Trinitarian YHWH means all three of their persons are of the godhead of course.
John Wycliffe introduced the term godhede into English Bible versions in two places, and, though somewhat archaic, the term survives in modern English because of its use in three places of the Tyndale New Testament (1525), the Geneva Bible (1560/1599), and King James Version (1611). In that translation, the word was used to translate three different Koine Greek words:

Verse	Greek	Romanization	Type	Translation	Vulgate 405	Wycliffe 1395	Tyndale 1525	ESV 2001
Acts 17:29	θεῖον	theion[3]	adjective	"divine, godly"	divinum	that godli thing	godhed	the divine being
Romans 1:20	θειότης	theiotēs[4]	noun	"divinity, divine nature"	divinitas	godhed	godhed	divine nature
Col 2:9	θεότης	theotēs[5]	noun	"deity"	divinitas	the Godhed	the godheed	deity

I hope this helps you appreciate and know the confusion this artificial word has causes over the centuries.

Fortunately, some new Bible translations have rediscovered the truth and reverted back to words such as deity, divine being, nature.

And you must remember that this divine sense was IN the Son not that the Son was or the source of this divinity in the first place. It was placed into him by design and by the desire of his God. Most folks though just dismiss this obvious written fact clearly visible in pertinent scripture out of hand, and just pompously waltz over it and prefer to parrot words that force the Son to be the same as God himself. Can can I say ignorance with a capital I, to use the word strictly as per the dictionary. Cannot they read and think I wonder...as they read and understand the local context surround the verses under study. Of course, it's not that is not their nature to be truthful it seems.

Thanks.

It's true--a lot of people have perpetual knee jerk reactions to their favorite doctrines being questioned, so you really can't even discuss anything with them.

I'm undecided on this question, bc I think there are strong points for both sides.

Thanks again.

 

[APAK]

~


Well; I would suggest that you not be thinking of yourself as infallible, but
instead capable of honest mistakes, and vulnerable to subtle influences.
_

Wow, infallibility, and then the desire to believe in pagan religious doctrine. No thanks.

This is a deep spiritual issue of the heart not a just a mental decision of a carnal mind that changes sometime with the tides.