Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

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Tulipbee

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The position of the church and society at large is mistaken as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO
Let's discuss.

Questions:
1) What did Jesus actually say?
2) Why did he say it?
3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here?


The position of the church and society at large is that adultery (sexual immorality) is grounds for divorce.
And they will quote Jesus as an authority on this. But is Jesus being misquoted? Yes, I believe so.
The biggest problem is the disconnect we have with the culture that Jesus was speaking to.

The church teaches that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.

The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.

This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???

For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18

Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.

Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

--- COMPARE ---

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/
Ah, St. SteVen, you've brought a theological puzzle to the Calvinist comedy club – where we dissect divine debates with a touch of humor. Let's untangle this marriage comedy with a Calvinist twist.
Now, your exploration of Jesus' words on divorce – in the Calvinist comedy script, we might say, "Ah, the fine print of marital matters – not just a discussion of 'adultery,' but a divine discourse on the intricacies of fornication and marriage."
And let's add a dash of Calvinist wisdom – as John Calvin once said, "The sum is, that the man who rashly puts away his wife, tears asunder the sacred bond of marriage, and therefore cannot afterwards marry another woman without committing adultery."
Now, your emphasis on the cultural setting – in our Calvinist humor realm, we'd say, "It's like watching an ancient marital sitcom – where a bride's virginity was a legal matter, and Jesus, the divine comedian, addresses the fornication loophole with a cosmic punchline."
And your conclusion about the church getting it wrong – in the Calvinist comedy club, we might respond with a chuckle, "Ah, the age-old debate on biblical interpretation – a divine drama where different perspectives dance on the theological stage. But let's not forget, the Gospel is the ultimate punchline that unites us."
So, let's keep the laughter divine and rooted in the Gospel truth – where the marriage script, though nuanced, is part of the grand comedy of God's sovereign plan. #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelLaughs
 
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Naomanos

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And I hadn't officially asked her father for his daughter.

I didn't ask my fiance's father for her hand. She'd been married once. He cheated on her from the before the marriage and told her he will not stop after the third time during their marriage.

When we told her dad that we are engaged he actually said to me that he's glad I didn't ask him. She's a grown woman and I don't need his permission to marry her.
 
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St. SteVen

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When we told her dad that we are engaged he actually said to me that he's glad I didn't ask him. She's a grown woman and I don't need his permission to marry her.
Yes, asking the father for "his daughter's hand in marriage" is antiquated now.
But I think it was appreciated by her parents. And certainly shows some respect for her father.
Honestly seemed like the right thing to do. And was a proper part of the parental blessing I had requested.
I'll bet you didn't do that either. - LOL

/ cc: @Ritajanice
 

Naomanos

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Yes, asking the father for "his daughter's hand in marriage" is antiquated now.
But I think it was appreciated by her parents. And certainly shows some respect for her father.
Honestly seemed like the right thing to do. And was a proper part of the parental blessing I had requested.
I'll bet you didn't do that either. - LOL

/ cc: @Ritajanice

No I did not, nor would her parents want us too. Her dad appreciated that I didn't ask and would have been upset had I asked (his words). Her dad is also over 80 years old and as he said, she is a grown woman and should choose who she wants to marry without her her parents giving the go ahead.

Her parents tend to be pretty practical people.

Maybe age has something to do with it? I'll be 50 this year and she'll be 45. We're not just starting out in life and both have been married previously.
 
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Ritajanice

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Yes, asking the father for "his daughter's hand in marriage" is antiquated now.
But I think it was appreciated by her parents. And certainly shows some respect for her father.
Honestly seemed like the right thing to do. And was a proper part of the parental blessing I had requested.
I'll bet you didn't do that either. - LOL

/ cc: @Ritajanice
No he didn’t and my Father wouldn’t come to my wedding..because he didn’t like my then to be husband...the funny thing was though...he didn’t mind him doing loads of DIY jobs for him..funny that.
 

1stCenturyLady

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It was not brilliance when it was in error.
The exception clause is adultery.
except for sexual immorality,

Anyone who divorces, except on the grounds of adultery and remarries is an adulterer.
The error in the Church doctrine is WHEN was the sexual immorality. The Scriptures say BEFORE marriage, rather than DURING marriage.
 
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1stCenturyLady

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Wow! I’m sorry you went through all that.
I was just wondering though: you said Christian husband…. I guess you meant what he claimed to be back then?
Do you think he is still a Christian?

Something similar happened to me. My wife divorced me, and married my best friend (he was at the time), who had been married - leaving his wife & kids!

But she eventually approached me, to ask my forgiveness. (In line with Matthew 5:24.) So I accept her now as a Christian once again. And accepted by others….

There was more involved … all of us were Jehovah’s Witnesses (and fortunately, we all are again), so application of 1 Corinthians 5 was administered. But it was necessary, for many reasons.



That’s great. Just wondering what was the source of information you used? Or did you just meditate on those passages by yourself?

Very commendable!

Is single & celibate the lifestyle you choose?
Nothing wrong with that; or remarriage, either!
I have, and I’m happy.

You don’t have to reply, if I’m touching on personal things.

All the best to you!
Thanks. I shouldn't have married him in the first place. I could feel a check in my spirit for the whole week before the ceremony. Then afterward, God used it to bring me to a new level of obedience to a time when I said to God that I would not divorce him, even if he killed me. (he was abusive) In other words, I would not willfully sin ever again. And I haven't. Now I wear my rings for an entirely different reason. Isa. 54:5!
 

Naomanos

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Heres the thing, if divorce and remarriage are only based on sexual immorality, then people like me are doomed to a life of singleness and loneliness through no fault of our own. There is also the whole burning with passion that happens.

I was divorced against my will by my wife. I doubt God would punish me for the actions of my ex-wife. She abandoned me. It wasn't the other way around.

There is also the whole God has brought me my fiance. I know that is God because if it was Satan this relationship wouldn't glorify God. It's the best relationship I have ever had. We build each other up, not tear each other down. We are in this thing called life together.

This is who God had in mind for me. He wouldn't bring her to me if it was sin for us to get remarried. So, there has to be more to this than what people think there is when it comes to divorce and remarriage.
 
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Naomanos

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Now I wear my rings for an entirely different reason. Isa. 54:5!

I'm happy that you are in love with God and according to you, He is your husband. While I love God? I am not in love with Him and He surely isn't my wife.

I need a physical wife. I still "burn" with passion, even at 50 years old. I also prayed to God that if it is His will, he will bring me someone to be with and He did.
 
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Ritajanice

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I'm happy that you are in love with God and according to you, He is your husband. While I love God? I am not in love with Him and He surely isn't my wife.

I need a physical wife. I still "burn" with passion, even at 50 years old. I also prayed to God that if it is His will, he will bring me someone to be with and He did.
Oh my lovely, I too burn with passion, I would love to Love a husband ..I can love him now, as God has shown me what Love is.
I do accept it though, if it’s not Gods will..I can live without a husband, I couldn’t live without God.

You’re still a youngster..I pray it’s Gods will that you get a wife,xox
Sorry, I see he brought you someone..so happy for you!!
 

Naomanos

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Oh my lovely, I too burn with passion, I would love to Love a husband ..I can love him now, as God has shown me what Love is.

You’re still a youngster..I pray it’s Gods will that you get a wife,xox
Sorry, I see he brought you someone..so happy for you!!

Thank you!
 
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1stCenturyLady

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I'm happy that you are in love with God and according to you, He is your husband. While I love God? I am not in love with Him and He surely isn't my wife.

I need a physical wife. I still "burn" with passion, even at 50 years old. I also prayed to God that if it is His will, he will bring me someone to be with and He did.
That is perfectly normal. And, yes, I am in love with God.
 

1stCenturyLady

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It was not brilliance when it was in error.
The exception clause is adultery.
except for sexual immorality,

Anyone who divorces, except on the grounds of adultery and remarries is an adulterer.
I thought that was Mark, but it wasn't. Please provide the verse and version.
 
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St. SteVen

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BlessedPeace said:
It was not brilliance when it was in error.
The exception clause is adultery.
except for sexual immorality,
Anyone who divorces, except on the grounds of adultery and remarries is an adulterer.

I thought that was Mark, but it wasn't. Please provide the verse and version.
Good catch.
I don't think that is a biblical quote.
I can't find "except on the grounds of adultery" in any translation. ???

/
 

St. SteVen

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SS, I've never been so fond of a hopeless deconstructionist as I am with you.

How do you do it?

Maybe it's the music thing. :cool:
I was remembering this post.
When I first arrived here I talked about my deconstruction quite a bit.
But I haven;t mentioned it for quite a while.

I posted a topic today that is from a Deconstructionist. He doesn't appear to be as heretical as I am. - LOL

The Biblical Truth About Hell - video and transcript

/
 

St. SteVen

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Yep, that's what Jesus said. The question remains of WHEN. Did she commit fornication before the marriage, or after. But I'm still not dating. LOL
I think there is a reason that the verse differentiates between porneia (fornication) and moicheuó. (adultery)
Because porneia (fornication) happens before marriage and moicheuó (adultery) happens after marriage.

/
 
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