Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

[rockytopva]

First century Tongue speakers understood what they were saying. Today's practitioners
do do not.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, - 1 Corinthians 13:1

Did they understand the tongues of angels?

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:2No man understands him!

Just because you don’t have the gift of the Holy Spirit does not make this true for everybody!

 

[rockytopva]

I must re-emphasize here...

1. The Holy Spirit is not flesh
2. The Holy Spirit is not ego
3. The Holy Spirit is not your old nasty self

How I miss the old timers of the Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church! For with their so-called Holy Spirit came a wonderful character! A joy unspeakable and full of glory!

 

[Dave L]

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, - 1 Corinthians 13:1

Did they understand the tongues of angels?

For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:2No man understands him!

Just because you don’t have the gift of the Holy Spirit does not make this true for everybody!

Paul says that understanding what is said = edification. And tongue speakers edified only themselves = they understood. But needed to interpret for others so they could understand and be edified too.

 

[Dave L]

Again you are making assumptions about everyone based on your purported knowledge of some.

Paul says that understanding what is said = edification. And tongue speakers edified only themselves = they understood. But needed to interpret for others so they could understand and be edified too.

 

[amadeus]

Paul says that understanding what is said = edification. And tongue speakers edified only themselves = they understood. But needed to interpret for others so they could understand and be edified too.

What I have understood is that there is more than one gift of tongues. I have seen or understood not less than three:

"... to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

 

[Dave L]

What I have understood is that there is more than one gift of tongues. I have seen or understood not less than three:

"... to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

But they all are understandable to the speaker = edification for the speaker.

 

[amadeus]

But they all are understandable to the speaker = edification for the speaker.

They are understandable to his heart, but not to his brain. The brain is still the flesh. If the brain were the answer the Einsteins would be the ones saved whereas those of below average intelligence would be lost. That is NOT how God works.

 

[Enoch111]

What I have understood is that there is more than one gift of tongues. I have seen or understood not less than three: "... to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

If we take that to mean *many different languages* then it is perfectly fitting. Not different gifts but different languages, e.g. German, French, Italian.

 

[amadeus]

If we take that to mean *many different languages* then it is perfectly fitting. Not different gifts but different languages, e.g. German, French, Italian.

If that is the way you take it that's fine. I take as more than one.

 

[CoreIssue]

What I have understood is that there is more than one gift of tongues. I have seen or understood not less than three:

"... to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:" I Cor 12:10

1 Corinthians 12:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.b]">[b]

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1085 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
gevnoß from (1096)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Genos 1:684,117
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ghen'-os Noun Neuter
Definition

1. kindred
   1. offspring
   2. family
   3. stock, tribe, nation
      1. i.e. nationality or descent from a particular people
   4. the aggregate of many individuals of the same nature, kind, sort

Only one gift of tongues which is to speak in different languages.

Remember at Pentecost. One speaker speaking one time but understood by people speaking different languages.

 

[amadeus]

@CoreIssue
I'll stand with the at least 3 gifts, but no details at the moment. Perhaps tomorrow after I have hopefully had a good night's rest.

 

[CoreIssue]

@CoreIssue
I'll stand with the at least 3 gifts, but no details at the moment. Perhaps tomorrow after I have hopefully had a good night's rest.

While there is only one gift of tongues people are not limited to one gift.

I do not have the gift of tongues but I do have more than one gift.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This interpretation doesn't make sense. If those who heard the apostles received the Holy Spirit (and the gift of interpretation) just through hearing the tongues, why did Peter then tell them that they would receive the Holy Spirit when (and if) they were baptised as followers of Jesus (Acts 2:38)?

It is generally assumed that the apostles were speaking supernaturally in languages that were understood by their audience - so on this occasion (unusually) the gift of interpretation was not needed for understanding. This doesn't contradict Paul's assertion that we speak to God when we speak in tongues. The apostles were speaking to God on the Day of Pentecost - praising Him (Acts 2:11) - and the crowd simply 'overheard' what they were saying.

No, God doesn't contradict His word in such a way. Tongues are not for the purpose of being understood by man. that is a common myth from human reasoning. That is very clear in 1 Corinthians 12-14, especially 14:2. The tongues spoken on the Day of Pentecost were supernaturally spoken, AND supernaturally understood by the gift of interpretation of tongues, but not by everyone.

That is why they were referred to as "devout" Jews. They belonged to God already and being called. What others "heard" was gibberish and thought they were drunk. My thoughts on who those were is they were Romans or other Gentiles that the gospel was not yet for.

But, like you, I do not believe they had received the actual infilling of the Holy Spirit until they obeyed Peter's words to repent. Acts 2:38. The gifts are from God, and he can use them as a sign on anyone being called. For instance, you don't have to be a Christian for you to receive healing. But may come to God, BECAUSE of the healing. In the same way, God has used the gift of interpretation of tongues to draw men to Christ. That still happens today. I remember it happening in Arizona at the church I went to there. Some teenage Christians brought a girl to church they had been witnessing to. One of the men spoke in tongues over her during prayer. She didn't even hear tongues, what she heard was English. That is also how someone given the gift of interpretation of tongues operates in the gift. They simultaneously hear their own language, so they can give the message.

 

[Dave L]

They are understandable to his heart, but not to his brain. The brain is still the flesh. If the brain were the answer the Einsteins would be the ones saved whereas those of below average intelligence would be lost. That is NOT how God works.

The mind (understanding) was unfruitful unless they told others what it meant. It doesn't mean they didn't understand.

 

[amadeus]

While there is only one gift of tongues people are not limited to one gift.

I do not have the gift of tongues but I do have more than one gift.

1st Tongue: speaker speaks in a tongue unknown to himself apparently God's direct understanding alone. This one would edify from the inside of us. (I have this one.) This one is for me a prayer language.

2nd Tongue: speaker speaks in his own language but the listeners hear him in their own foreign languages (I have had others give witness to this gift, but have never personally witnessed it). We see this one in Acts 2,

3rd Tongue: speaker speaks in tongue not understood by the speaker and it is then interpreted by some one into the common language. (My wife has been used to give such messages from God and she has also been used to interpret such messages into English. The only human language she speaks is English.)

 

[amadeus]

The mind (understanding) was unfruitful unless they told others what it meant. It doesn't mean they didn't understand.

The understanding in the heart comes to our own conscience mind as God sees the need for it. This is one role of the Holy Spirit within. We eat the flesh of Jesus, but the blood of the Jesus quickens it [brings it to Life] within us. It is not fruitless simply because we as men of flesh do not understand the words we hear. It is understood when we are not quenching the Holy Spirit and God has a need involving us.

 

[Dave L]

The understanding in the heart comes to our own conscience mind as God sees the need for it. This is one role of the Holy Spirit within. We eat the flesh of Jesus, but the blood of the Jesus quickens it [brings it to Life] within us. It is not fruitless simply because we as men of flesh do not understand the words we hear. It is understood when we are not quenching the Holy Spirit and God has a need involving us.

This skirts the issue where Paul says understanding is the basis for edification. And those who spoke in tongues were edified. = They understood what they said. But their understanding did not bear fruit unless they interpreted so others could be edified too.

 

[amadeus]

This skirts the issue where Paul says understanding is the basis for edification. And those who spoke in tongues were edified. = They understood what they said. But their understanding did not bear fruit unless they interpreted so others could be edified too.

But you misunderstand me. I am edified and I do understand, but according to God's timing and understanding rather than mine or any other man's.

 

[CoreIssue]

1st Tongue: speaker speaks in a tongue unknown to himself apparently God's direct understanding alone. This one would edify from the inside of us. (I have this one.) This one is for me a prayer language.

But never called a separate gift.

2nd Tongue: speaker speaks in his own language but the listeners hear him in their own foreign languages (I have had others give witness to this gift, but have never personally witnessed it). We see this one in Acts 2,

Again never called a separate gift.

3rd Tongue: speaker speaks in tongue not understood by the speaker and it is then interpreted by some one into the common language. (My wife has been used to give such messages from God and she has also been used to interpret such messages into English. The only human language she speaks is English.)

Again they recall a separate gift

Plus the fact biblically tongues is the least gift.

All gifts have a purpose that serves the body of Christ. Even Paul said this was the least of gifts.

Note singular gift, not multiple gifts.

The gifts I have manifest in different ways at times, but that does not make each separate manifestation of different gift. And the purpose of each gift is easy to see how it serves others.

The Pentecostal obsession with tongues cannot be justified biblically.

 

[Dave L]

But you misunderstand me. I am edified and I do understand, but according to God's timing and understanding rather than mine or any other man's.

Studies show that tongues speakers relieve stress and reap positive benefits. But it is not according to any single religion.