Did people receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues? Or did they speak in tongues ....?

[1stCenturyLady]

This skirts the issue where Paul says understanding is the basis for edification. And those who spoke in tongues were edified. = They understood what they said. But their understanding did not bear fruit unless they interpreted so others could be edified too.

The scriptures actually says that without interpretation, the speaker's SPIRIT is edified, but they do NOT have understanding in their MIND. Why can't you believe what it says, that to be edified is not just with the mind? We've gone over this before.

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

 

[Dave L]

The scriptures actually says that without interpretation, the speaker's SPIRIT is edified, but they do NOT have understanding in their MIND. Why can't you believe what it says, that to be edified is not just with the mind? We've gone over this before.

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

Paul says understanding what is said with the mind = edification. And tongue speakers were edified (understood what they were saying).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

2nd Tongue: speaker speaks in his own language but the listeners hear him in their own foreign languages (I have had others give witness to this gift, but have never personally witnessed it). We see this one in Acts 2,

Where in Acts 2 is someone speaking in their own language, and listeners hear in theirs? I don't see the gift of interpretation found in scripture to understand the tongues of man. I'm not saying, that God wouldn't allow that kind of miracle, but just no example of such.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul says understanding what is said with the mind = edification. And tongue speakers were edified (understood what they were saying).

"understanding is unfruitful" means the MIND is not edified. But it says their spirit is edified - built up.

 

[Dave L]

"understanding is unfruitful" means the MIND is not edified. But it says their spirit is edified - built up.

Understanding if good but unfruitful unless you explain it or just pray in the vernacular.........The Dave Version

 

[Helen]

@1stCenturyLady
No idea about "people" ...but for me I was saved in 1964 and was baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1968 , four years later.

In London where I worked, they have a place called Speakers Corner.
People do actually stand on wooden boxes to speak. ( about every subject under the sun)

One lunchtime a preacher was preaching and then he spoke in tongues.
To me, it just sounded like tongues...
From the back of the crowd a man started shouting. I forget was nationality he was...He yelled out that the preacher had just listed the worst of his sins. He was convicted,totally awed ..and Yes, he came forward and he got saved right there.

I later heard from missionaries that this often happened when they were out preaching in English in the different countries. What they preached was heard in the language of the hearer.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Understanding if good but unfruitful unless you explain it or just pray in the vernacular.........The Dave Version

Indeed, the Dave version. It is the reason for the separate gift of interpretation.

 

[Dave L]

Indeed, the Dave version. But

That's what it means.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That's what it means.

Only to you, but it is the reason for the separate gift of interpretation.

 

[Dave L]

@1stCenturyLady
No idea about "people" ...but for me I was saved in 1964 and was baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1968 , four years later.

In London where I worked, they have a place called Speakers Corner.
People do actually stand on wooden boxes to speak. ( about every subject under the sun)

One lunchtime a preacher was preaching and then he spoke in tongues.
To me, it just sounded like tongues...
From the back of the crowd a man started shouting. I forget was nationality he was...He yelled out that the preacher had just listed the worst of his sins. He was convicted,totally awed ..and Yes, he came forward and he got saved right there.

I later heard from missionaries that this often happened when they were out preaching in English in the different countries. What they preached was heard in the language of the hearer.

Could it be he spoke in a foreign language and the guy understood it accordingly? Normally they spoke in tongues to God and not to men.

 

[Dave L]

Only to you, but it is the reason for the separate gift of interpretation.

Anyone can see that if they want the truth of the matter.

 

[CoreIssue]

Indeed, the Dave version. It is the reason for the separate gift of interpretation.

There are many varieties of English and many brogues. At that time every village had its own.

When living in Scotland it took time to learn.

Running messages with me lads and lassies and dealing with the daft, me bucko.

The Gaelic was especially challenging.

Those from England were different as well. As are the Aussies.

But times change as do languages.

 

[Helen]

Could it be he spoke in a foreign language and the guy understood it accordingly? Normally they spoke in tongues to God and not to men.

NO, the preacher said he was just worshipping God during preaching, to keep God as his focus for the word. But the Holy Spirit obviously gave him a language as he prayed....for the man at the back to hear and respond to.
That is God's love for the lost.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@1stCenturyLady
No idea about "people" ...but for me I was saved in 1964 and was baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1968 , four years later.

In London where I worked, they have a place called Speakers Corner.
People do actually stand on wooden boxes to speak. ( about every subject under the sun)

One lunchtime a preacher was preaching and then he spoke in tongues.
To me, it just sounded like tongues...
From the back of the crowd a man started shouting. I forget was nationality he was...He yelled out that the preacher had just listed the worst of his sins. He was convicted,totally awed ..and Yes, he came forward and he got saved right there.

I later heard from missionaries that this often happened when they were out preaching in English in the different countries. What they preached was heard in the language of the hearer.

I've seen and read in scripture that someone being drawn to Jesus and not yet saved was sovereignly given the interpretation of tongues (like in Acts 2), but can't explain by scripture someone supernaturally understanding a human tongue. That could be word of knowledge.

 

[CoreIssue]

Kicking in here the most solidly biblical men who love God and were the best teachers, preachers and theologians never spoke in tongues.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Anyone can see that if they want the truth of the matter.

But you are misinterpreting "understanding is unfruitful" to meaning it IS fruitful. No, it's not WITHOUT the gift of interpretation of tongues.

 

[CoreIssue]

The scriptures actually says that without interpretation, the speaker's SPIRIT is edified, but they do NOT have understanding in their MIND. Why can't you believe what it says, that to be edified is not just with the mind? We've gone over this before.

13 Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful.

20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

The Bible actually says without an interpreter shut up and sit down.

 

[Dave L]

But you are misinterpreting "understanding is unfruitful" to meaning it IS fruitful. No, it's not WITHOUT the gift of interpretation of tongues.

Understanding is useless if it doesn't bear fruit. So tell others what you understand ...etc.

 

[Dave L]

NO, the preacher said he was just worshipping God during preaching, to keep God as his focus for the word. But the Holy Spirit obviously gave him a language as he prayed....for the man at the back to hear and respond to.
That is God's love for the lost.

“But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.” (1 Corinthians 14:24–25) (KJV 1900)

Paul says this was true of Prophecy. But tongues served a different purpose.

 

[Helen]

“But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.” (1 Corinthians 14:24–25) (KJV 1900)

Paul says this was true of Prophecy. But tongues served a different purpose.

So you choose to deny that God does what He wants , when He wants and how He wants?

Just like those in the wine or grape juice thread still have to argue the fact that "it must be wine..."
I even put up a posts showing how missionaries back in the 60's had no bread or wine..so worshipped using a banana and water. The tribesmen saw it from the bushes, they later said that they could tell that they were worshipping some Mighty god.
And they also saw huge angels standing all around them...so they spared their lives, and later got saved !!
But no, the letter of the word must be above anything ..tut tut...I wonder if anyone gave God that memo?
He seems to jump out of that box whenever He pleases.