Different ideas

[Marakorpa]

OK.
But if we're made up of 3 separate componants:
Body
Soul
Spirit

And it's the SOUL that makes us what we are,
shouldn't the soul also be immortal?

I think when we die both our soul and our spirit go to be with God.
Only our body will not be there.

Your equation would have all three being immortal, if we are 3 separate yet 3 same components. The soul is our ego, and it is interpreted as ego or personality...God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul...before that he was a dead soul.

Read your Bible in Gene’s and see what God promised Adam and Eve...Does he promise them everlasting live on a Paradise earth? If yes, why would they need an immortal soul in case they died,or was God unsure of his ability to create?

Read what King Solomon says about the dead. what is the common grave called? Is it not hades?

When evil ones die, like Adam and Eve, and Cain and all the ones in the flood they are completely forgotten by God, He would not defile himself with their spirit

 

[aspen]

Oh I see! I think: When God created the earth, with his master worker Jesus, or the Word, he said that the world was (at first void and formless) not much topography and void of any vegetation or rivers etc. The centre of the earth has molten iron that creates a magnetic field around us to prevent a lot of radiation from space and the sun. This magma need vents to allow tithe pressure to let off and many volcanoes would have shaped the earth before it became a habitable place to live. This could have taken billions of earth years to get to this stage, God and his Son were not in a great hurry to get it done they just wanted it to "Be good and Very Good: PS It was all very will planned, not Chaos. In all the universe, earth became the "best address for man", it didn’t happen by chance.

The early Church did not believe that the Creation story was a literal account - they believed it was a mystic vision God gave to Moses

 

[aspen]

Soul = body + Spirit + Christ (Christians)

 

[aspen]

Hasn't been cast out yet?? What were the years form 1914 like...Nation shall rise against nation...etc,never before in history has this prophecy been true.

Just look at the Biblical signs of the last days and tell me that they are not accurate. The heavens has to cleared out to receive t he 144,000 who were not resurrected from the grave immediately they died unit Satan was in "The vicinity of the earth".

When the last of these faithful and discreet slaves die then Armageddon will come, sometime during the great tribulation....No dates.

Nations have always been fighting against nations - how is today any different from Egypt/Persia/ Rome - fighting each other? The Mongels, The Goths, The Huns?

 

[Marakorpa]

I would say Hell is like a place where the soul goes after the body dies. For those not in the shelter of the most high it is a place of torment by demons. The spirit may be different though, closer to God than the soul by my limited understanding.

"Memorial tombs" is not found in most translations of John 5:28. They simply say "grave."

Did you ever hear of a "mortal soul?" What makes you think one exists? It would alter human nature if we did not have an immortal soul, you may as well be asking 'why did God create us in the first place.'

No plan of God has ever been withdrawn. He may have to purge the earth to accomplish them though.

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. So he has been here through all time.

Many people gained glimpses into the nature of God, some laws, and the eternal gospel. But Romans 9:4: "Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;"

I asked, Who created Hell. If God created Hell then He created Adam and Eve with malicious intent, do you think?

The Memorial Tombs are just graves but of those that have been promised resurrection to a Paradise earth. People like John the baptist, Noah, Job, Moses all the way back to Abel. The faithful men and women who were under the Mosaic Law and followed that law faithfully.
Jesus was not immortal until he was taken up to the heavens after his murder on earth. If he was he would not have been able to die and the ransom sacrifice would be worthless.
You may get the impression that the Alpha and Omega refers to Jesus, however it refers to Jehovah the only true God.

These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and are used as a title three times in the book of Revelation. The additional occurrence of this phrase in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, however, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations.

While many commentators apply this title both to God and to Christ, a more careful examination of its use restricts its application to Jehovah God. The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8) Thus Revelation 1:8 (RS) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God [“Jehovah God,” NW], who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God. In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”

The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.

The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,” and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. “The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.”

The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.—Compare Isa 44:6.

 

[Marakorpa]

Nations have always been fighting against nations - how is today any different from Egypt/Persia/ Rome - fighting each other? The Mongels, The Goths, The Huns?

Sorry, not nations, you speak of Kingdoms or countries never national wars...How many nations were active in the WW2 It wqs a Global war an WW1 was called the war to end all wars.

World War 2 was fought between two groups of countries. On one side were the Axis Powers, including Germany, Italy and Japan. On the other side were the Allies. They included Britain, France, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India, the Soviet Union, China and the United States of America.

 

[aspen]

Sorry, not nations, you speak of Kingdoms or countries never national wars...How many nations were active in the WW2 It wqs a Global war an WW1 was called the war to end all wars.

World War 2 was fought between two groups of countries. On one side were the Axis Powers, including Germany, Italy and Japan. On the other side were the Allies. They included Britain, France, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, India, the Soviet Union, China and the United States of America.

No different than the Roman Empire and The Persian Empire - and when Jesus was making the statement, he was speaking about the end times as coming quickly. The whole point of the end times verses spoken by Jesus was to point out that the end times were upon them and therefore, the signs of the current times were markers.

 

[aspen]

As far as the 144,000 are concerned:

In Revelation 7 and 14, we are told about a group of 144,000 people that will always be with the Lamb. If we take these descriptions of this group literally they would be only Jewish male virgins. This means that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Charles Taze Russel (not a Jew) would not be in heaven.

And the 24 elders are also always with the Lamb, but increase the total to 144,024.

 

[Marakorpa]

No different than the Roman Empire and The Persian Empire - and when Jesus was making the statement, he was speaking about the end times as coming quickly. The whole point of the end times verses spoken by Jesus was to point out that the end times were upon them and therefore, the signs of the current times were markers.

Have it your way, I know the answer, so I don’t need to argue. Someone else may take you on on by getting you to know what a nation against nation really is.

 

[Marakorpa]

As far as the 144,000 are concerned:

In Revelation 7 and 14, we are told about a group of 144,000 people that will always be with the Lamb. If we take these descriptions of this group literally they would be only Jewish male virgins. This means that Peter (not a virgin), the Blessed Mother (not a male), and Charles Taze Russel (not a Jew) would not be in heaven.

And the 24 elders are also always with the Lamb, but increase the total to 144,024.

It would be a waste of time to explain the Biblical truths, by your rejection of what a Nation is, but your are way off the mark on your ideas, but then again you are taught by Christendom who know nothing of the Truth. I feel sorry that I have had to say that, but your lack of reasoning is not reasonable.

 

[buddyt]

Hasn't been cast out yet?? What were the years form 1914 like...Nation shall rise against nation...etc,never before in history has this prophecy been true.

Just look at the Biblical signs of the last days and tell me that they are not accurate. The heavens has to cleared out to receive t he 144,000 who were not resurrected from the grave immediately they died unit Satan was in "The vicinity of the earth".

When the last of these faithful and discreet slaves die then Armageddon will come, sometime during the great tribulation....No dates.

Although we don't have a date for Satan to be Cast Out we have a Time Period Read Carefully
When will Satan be cast out of Heaven ?

5 days before Passover Use the old Hebrew Calendar to calculate this. Be reminded of the time in Prophecy we're living in. Being that we are the generation of the Fig Tree, look for Satan to be Cast Soon.

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the Passover came to Bethany where Lazarus was which had been dead whom he raised from the dead. John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem. This verse tells us it's now 5 days before Passover John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Jesus telling us here on this day Satan will be cast out. He was speaking of the end times 5 days before Passover. The book of Revelation tells us he's Cast Out at the 6th Seal the 6th Vial and 6th Trump thus his number the number of a Man 666.
.

 

[aspen]

My reasoning is perfectly sound, Marakopa. I am sorry you cannot consider ideas outside the watchtower. I can only imagine the amount of cognitive dissonance you have to encounter daily. I am praying for you and I mean that sincerely.

 

[mjrhealth]

It would be a waste of time to explain the Biblical truths, by your rejection of what a Nation is, but your are way off the mark on your ideas, but then again you are taught by Christendom who know nothing of the Truth. I feel sorry that I have had to say that, but your lack of reasoning is not reasonable.

Biblical truth, who's bible what religion, you know this bit,

Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and this bit

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

so many fight over the bible as if it is the truth, yet the devil himself uses it and mens pride and arrogance to keep man in bondage with religion, you sir, are a slave to your religion, just as all who belong to religions, we are all supposed to be servants of Christ..

Joh_5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

still rejected by men

Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

so many still walking in darkness

 

[Armadillo]

You may get the impression that the Alpha and Omega refers to Jesus, however it refers to Jehovah the only true God.

These are the names of the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet and are used as a title three times in the book of Revelation. The additional occurrence of this phrase in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, however, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations.

Alpha and Omega are Greek words, John was writing in the language of the day and Alpha and Omega in English would be A and Z and in Hebrew, it would be Aleph and Tav.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, was spoken to John in Revelation in Hebrew, more than once.

Revelation 21:6, He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.

Revelation 22:13, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

With no explanation, 18 times throughout the Old Testament are two Hebrew letters, the Aleph and the Tav, back to back and they are not words.

Genesis 1:1, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

In the Hebrew,

Genesis 1:1, בְּרֵאשִׁית, בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים, אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם, וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ.

Translated into English,

In the beginning God AZ created the heavens and the earth.

AZ is not a word and the translators took it out, omitted it.

Jesus said, "I am the Alpha and the Omega" "I am the Aleph and the Tav." "I am the A and the Z", Jesus isn't the alphabet.
Genesis 1:1, In the beginning God Jesus created the heavens and the earth.

 

[bbyrd009]

Aha, and then comes the question , "what is this "right" that the little children are doing?" You probably would not be surprised at the number who believe they know exactly what it is.

ha. if one is trained to think logically, they become convinced of only one right answer, and reveal themselves in their speech, for all to see. Of course everyone is right in their own eyes, right. Very hard to approach a subject without dragging your knowledge along with you. Like a little child iow

 

[bbyrd009]

The reason I asked that question is that the Bible tells us clearly what God's purpose or plan is for us sinful humans.

yes, we already suspected as much lol. Don't get me wrong, i'm just picking on you here, but see how we ask lawyer Qs now, that we already have an answer to, and are anxious to disseminate. I do this alla time ok, so don't get me wrong, this just turned into a good spot to point out "become like a little child" in a normal situation.

the point being that i did not read what you have been shown "that the Bible tells us clearly what God's purpose or plan is for us sinful humans" is, and i might even point out that that is because you have already outed as JW, perhaps, trying to put a light on how IDing with a certain belief system might close doors--not that you are wrong or anything like that, i'm sure the perspective is correct enough

 

[bbyrd009]

Our purpose can be found in the end-game, which I agree is reasonable considering how brief this existence is compared to eternity.

you got everything you need to experience the joy of the Lord right now, and if one is waiting for Jesus to come back so that their life can start, or maybe craving death as Paul is often interpreted as doing, to be "with the Lord," then imo this purpose has been vastly misunderstood, and is being completely misrepresented. Imo a lot of this likely has to do with the definition of "eternity," or at least our place in it, which does not start tomorrow after Jesus does something else, or after we die.

 

[bbyrd009]

we are, generally speaking, all assured of our eternal salvation after coming to Jesus out of fear of hell and doing a few altar works, not seeing that we are told we must die to self in order to follow Christ. The two are anathema to each other, and both cannot be true.

If one is confident that they are now "saved," meaning that they are sure they are going to spend "eternity" in "heaven," Notice how it is the "self" that has been assured that it does not have to die, see. This is complete hypocrisy, and the self has just been offered a product that it cannot refuse of course, i mean hey "eternal life" and all, all by going through a couple rituals and coughing up 10%? SOLD lol. Casinos run on 10% too huh

 

[bbyrd009]

IMO, Victory over Satan isn't the end-all be-all of human existence. The apex of human existence is found in the Lord following that victory over Satan. Our purpose can be found in the end-game, which I agree is reasonable considering how brief this existence is compared to eternity.

so if i read this with different eyes, and by "end game" you mean what i mean, then a big amen!

 

[lforrest]

we are, generally speaking, all assured of our eternal salvation after coming to Jesus out of fear of hell and doing a few altar works, not seeing that we are told we must die to self in order to follow Christ. The two are anathema to each other, and both cannot be true.

If one is confident that they are now "saved," meaning that they are sure they are going to spend "eternity" in "heaven," Notice how it is the "self" that has been assured that it does not have to die, see. This is complete hypocrisy, and the self has just been offered a product that it cannot refuse of course, i mean hey "eternal life" and all, all by going through a couple rituals and coughing up 10%? SOLD lol. Casinos run on 10% too huh

When someone is born again they are a new creation. They are born of water and the Spirit. John 3:5

So where is this creation? Is it saved? Has it been resurrected? Is it going to heaven, or already there? Is it the whole you, is it part of you? Does it have a form, will you ever see it?