Different ideas

[mjrhealth]

You sound no more disillusioned than the rest, but you have an opportunity for a short time to find the Truth, it is your choice.

I found the truth, His name is Jesus, in fact it was Him who found me. So i know your religion like all the rest is just one big fat lie. And I have had many a good conversation with JW's at my last Home, Always came to the same thing, " so than you must believe that Jesus has a "church' on this earth". That is when I disagree, they get up and leave. Last conversation, they came to my door, thanked me for allowing them into my home, apparently I was one of the few. So I said to them as I say to you, and for that matter all the religious people of this earth, " all you have to offer is your religion, People dont want religion, go and find Christ, when you find Him, than they may let you into their homes, because you will than have something to give them".

 

[Armadillo]

Jesus was made the King of Heaven

NIV, John 14:6, Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

NWT, John 14:6, Jesus said to him: “I am the way+ and the truth+ and the life.+ No one comes to the Father except through me.

Exodus 3:13,14, Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”

God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

When Pharoah asks Moses the same question, Moses answers, Exodus 5:3, then they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Now let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to the Lord our God, or he may strike us with plagues or with the sword.”

In Exodus 6:3, God now refers to Himself as "JEHOVAH", translated in Hebrews as Yehovah, "the existing one", rendered in English it is LORD, all capitals, and God is faithful to covenant.

Jesus is the light of the world, John 8:12 and the Pharisees are of their father the devil, John 8:44 and if man keeps His sayings he will never see death, John 8:51. All this angers the Jews as they feel Jesus is claiming to be greater than Abraham and the prophets and Jesus says to the Jews that Abraham saw His day and was glad, John 8:56 and the Jews said to Jesus, you're too young to have seen Abraham, John 8:57 and since Jesus is claiming that Abraham had seen Jesus' day, they believed Jesus was claiming to have seen Abraham which would make him much older than he is or Jesus was claiming to be God and Jesus said to them, John 8:58, “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

So I ask you, is Jesus God in the flesh or is Jesus crazy? Who is your LORD? Who is Jehovah?

For the JW, they won't read NIV, which is above. They read only the New World translation. So for the scriptures above I will use the NWT below.

Exodus 3:13,14, But Moses said to the true God: “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they say to me, ‘What is his name?’+ What should I say to them?” 14 So God said to Moses: “I Will Become What I Choose* to Become.”*+ And he added: “This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘I Will Become has sent me to you.’”

Exodus 5:3, But they said: “The God of the Hebrews has communicated with us. Please, we want to make a three-day journey into the wilderness and sacrifice to Jehovah our God;

Exodus 6:3, And I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty,+ but with regard to my name Jehovah

John 8:12, Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world.+ Whoever follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light+ of life.”

John 8:44, You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father.

John 8:51, Most truly I say to you, if anyone observes my word, he will never see death at all.”

John 8:56, Abraham your father rejoiced greatly at the prospect of seeing my day, and he saw it and rejoiced.

John 8:57, Then the Jews said to him: “You are not yet 50 years old, and still you have seen Abraham?

John 8:58, Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been

So, even with the NWT translation, is Jesus not claiming to be God? Who is Lord? Who is Jehovah?

John 8:59, So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid and went out of the temple.

If Jesus wasn't saying He is God, why would they try to kill him?

NIV, John 10:33, "We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

NWT, The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy;+ for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.”

Jesus wasn't making himself a god, He was saying, I AM.

NIV, John 8:58, "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

NWT, John 8:58, Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”

I have been. Been what?

 

[bbyrd009]

Then what would be the point?

oh--this thread, ok. Ha well i can learn from it without you trying to teach, Job, it's the spirit of the thing. It's not like i wouldn't prolly just be challenging it anyway, from your pov lol

 

[bbyrd009]

You read the Bible and write here what Christians do not do, or should not do.

this was said apropos of nothing, i didn't quite get the point of it?
don't you do the same? isn't that why i'm here?
CE?

 

[bbyrd009]

God is not teh author of confusion, yet all those who follow the bible are confused, Strange aint it.

minds me of "you are given to understand the parables" told to some fishermen who very obviously did not understand at all lol

 

[bbyrd009]

And so you remain slaves in Egypt just like all teh religious people do.

i dunno if this is exactly a fair statement tho either. JWs know some important truths imo, and seems like you are judging him and not his heart to me.

 

[bbyrd009]

The Catholics have excommunication, but do you say the same with that?

yes. but now imo we are getting to some real followers, lol. the heretics of a religion. Lapsed people are never hardly EXed, now, are they? Maybe in JW, dunno.

 

[bbyrd009]

Unless that person is seen to be possibly making division, or creating other problems for the congregation

well, "I came not to bring peace..." but anyway i gotta tell ya that practically speaking, like on more of a personal level, Catholics exhibit more grace in this area. i mean generally speaking, and imo.

i am learning from them right now, something quite pertinent here imo; to be tolerant of some turmoil, maybe even allow some in in the name of Charity or whatever. Where i am working here in Flint is like a House of Second Chances, and rooms are afforded to...difficult to house people, let's say. My best friend, a Catholic, runs it--not that the Catholic part matters so much, but he is, after all--and with all these "problem" people here that to me contribute nothing much to the program, and yet he is not all militant in running it, he's very understanding with them, and i am struck by the response. We're talking ex-crackheads here, like that.

and this guy is trying to bring up an Intentional Community, lots of work. It seemed like suicide to me to take on this Second Chances thing. I'm mildly Asperger's don't deal with stress too well, would tend to your perspective up there, iow squashing division etc, but the pooint i guess maybe i'm not getting across very well is how this inviting what i would call Chaos in and then watching these people transform mostly because of some gentle acceptance, warts and all, is a theme i have seen played out now several times in what i would call "Catholic" settings.

of course deliberate repeated instigators aren't tolerated for too long, but we don't see much of that anyway.
Be slower to impose control and quicker to be tolerant of some what you would term division, etc, in order to let it play out, that the fruit may be witnessed, iow, or that your influence might sway them, seems to be what they regularly shoot for. We kind of expect God will send us ppl that are going to be somewhat of a problem now, but that we might still be part of the cure, like that.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just another religion amongst the gazillion other one, no better no or worse.

i'd have to say yes and no here. JWs have a much more realistic perspective imo, and are not trying to...make their product more appealing? something like that. But ya, most are religious about it too.

But then you and i make anti-religion into another religion too, right

 

[bbyrd009]

And that is all that religion does, Keeps people from God.

oh, imo it serves other purposes too. And i am perceiving that the "keeping people from God" part is also a purpose, as strange as that sounds maybe. When one has spiritually matured to the point that the counterfeit--i'll say "the counterfeit," although that is not a complete perspective--no longer suffices, then they move on, and if they never mature then the counterfeit suits them.

And we have to recognize that the person sitting right next to them in the same church is in a different place spiritually. Iow might sound weird, but it is possible that "i should be in this church, right now, and _________ should not."

 

[bbyrd009]

The book of Revelation speaks of the time when Michael would be active as King.

not sure how you get Michael as king there? ty

 

[mjrhealth]

i dunno if this is exactly a fair statement tho either. JWs know some important truths imo, and seems like you are judging him and not his heart to me.

Big difference between head knowledge, the kind that puffeth up" and the truth. Yes as I said had some wonderful conversation, but without the spirit it is all futile.

 

[Marakorpa]

And that is why these forums are filled with religious men, very learned men like Saul,and confused chritstians and a whole bunch of trouble makers, because His time is short and he is making teh best of it. Still your religion is just another like all the rest.

Still your religion is just another like all the rest.[/QUOTE]

What makes you say that? Do you know "my religion" and how it works to be a close to what Christ wanted us to be, or are you just presuming like most folk do?

 

[Marakorpa]

not sure how you get Michael as king there? ty

Michael the Arc Angel is Jesus' name. This name is always in the singular and indicates that He is a very powerful angel in this capacity.

 

[Marakorpa]

It is interesting when one speaks of Heaven or Hell to people that consider themselves Christians. One lady I knew, she is now deceased and will never know as she, like all of us will go to the common grave and the dead know nothing. However, I asked her what would be her greatest wish right now? My question seemed to work like a switch and she recited the words, "I would like to be in heaven with Jesus."

My next question created some confusion, as this lady had grandchildren that she doted on and another grandchild on the way. "So you would give up being with your grand children with an unassured expectation of even going to heaven, and even if you did, you would not be able to hold the little ones again?"

The look on her face changed dramatically and all she could say was, "Oh well! I intend to live a long life", This lady died only two years after that conversation.

 

[mjrhealth]

What makes you say that? Do you know "my religion" and how it works to be a close to what Christ wanted us to be, or are you just presuming like most folk do?

I presume nothing, the only thing religion ever taught me was that it is everything God is not. HE came to set teh prisoners free, but men prefer to remain in prison.

 

[mjrhealth]

Michael the Arc Angel is Jesus' name

So confuse His name is Yeshua, not Michael

 

[Armadillo]

Michael the Arc Angel is Jesus' name. This name is always in the singular and indicates that He is a very powerful angel in this capacity.

If this is so, what is going on in Revelation 5?

 

[tabletalk]

I found the truth, His name is Jesus, in fact it was Him who found me. So i know your religion like all the rest is just one big fat lie. And I have had many a good conversation with JW's at my last Home, Always came to the same thing, " so than you must believe that Jesus has a "church' on this earth". That is when I disagree, they get up and leave. Last conversation, they came to my door, thanked me for allowing them into my home, apparently I was one of the few. So I said to them as I say to you, and for that matter all the religious people of this earth, " all you have to offer is your religion, People dont want religion, go and find Christ, when you find Him, than they may let you into their homes, because you will than have something to give them".

Here's two of your statements: "...in fact it was Him who found me." "...,go and find Christ,..."

Are both of those statements true? Who finds who?

And when you say it was Him who found you, is that the physical man Jesus you talked with face to face?

 

[mjrhealth]

Here's two of your statements: "...in fact it was Him who found me." "...,go and find Christ,..."

Are both of those statements true? Who finds who?

And when you say it was Him who found you, is that the physical man Jesus you talked with face to face?

I really have no idea why you are here , you seem to have nothing to offer, just love mud slinging, it is this that comes to mind,

Joh 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Joh 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?