disability

[Scott Downey]

Jack, yes, Jesus speaks of hell fire but it is not what you think it is ....and unless you are open to another explanation you remain in your misunderstanding.....and I'm sorry for that. Why? because it misrepresents God terribly.......and isn't that what the devils game is, to misrepresent God?

Now, are your doubts subdued now that I've answered you? :)

What do you say hell fire is then.
God takes vengeance on the enemies of God who cause trouble to his people who do not know Him or obey the gospel for whatever reason, ignorance is not an excuse to get into heaven and having your sins forgiven you. The wicked are allied with Satan and follow the devil and are called sons of disobedience and children of wrath.

Romans 1:18

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,​

Romans 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Romans 2:8
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,


Epheisans 2

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10​

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, ​

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [a]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

2 Peter 2:9
then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

That means the wicked are imprisoned in hell until the Day of judgement. After which they will be thrown in the lake of fire. None of the wicked until that time, is free of hell fire, they stand already condemned before they physically die and do experience that after they perish. Today there are people imprisoned in hell in torment awaiting their final judgement.

The whole reason Jesus came is so the believers in Him would not perish but have eternal life.
Otherwise, you perish, he saves his people from their sins, delivers them from the wrath of God to come.

John 3

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[quietthinker]

What do you say hell fire is then.
God takes vengeance on the enemies of God who cause trouble to his people who do not know Him or obey the gospel for whatever reason, ignorance is not an excuse to get into heaven and having your sins forgiven you. The wicked are allied with Satan and follow the devil and are called sons of disobedience and children of wrath.

Romans 1:18

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,​

Romans 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Romans 2:8
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,


Epheisans 2

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-10​

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, ​

8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who [a]believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

2 Peter 2:9
then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,

That means the wicked are imprisoned in hell until the Day of judgement. After which they will be thrown in the lake of fire. None of the wicked until that time, is free of hell fire, they stand already condemned before they physically die and do experience that after they perish. Today there are people imprisoned in hell in torment awaiting their final judgement.

The whole reason Jesus came is so the believers in Him would not perish but have eternal life.
Otherwise, you perish, he saves his people from their sins, delivers them from the wrath of God to come.

John 3

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Evil has in itself the seeds of its own destruction, Scott. They will cry for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them.
However that works out, I don't think God will be active in destroying people; they will destroy themselves.

Jesus will be seen coming in the clouds; it'll be a rescue mission for his people. The glory that surrounds him will be welcomed by those waiting for him. That same glory will scatter the enemies of God who will prefer suicide to facing him.

We have a parallel with Judas. Jesus did not reject him at any stage however the awareness of his treachery resulted in his suicide.

 

[Scott Downey]

Evil has in itself the seeds of its own destruction, Scott. They will cry for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them.
However that works out, I don't think God will be active in destroying people; they will destroy themselves.

Jesus will be seen coming in the clouds; it'll be a rescue mission for his people. The glory that surrounds him will be welcomed by those waiting for him. That same glory will scatter the enemies of God who will prefer suicide to facing him.

We have a parallel with Judas. Jesus did not reject him at any stage however the awareness of his treachery resulted in his suicide.

You are ignoring 'wrath of God' by saying they destroy themselves. That wrath is active, the wicked will feel it personally.
They do not suicide themselves, they are killed by Christ at His returning.
They are gathered there by the beast to fight against Christ in a strange war that they are so deceived about thinking that they can do anything against God almighty?

Revelation 19
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.

Christ on a White Horse​

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated​

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the [h]supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, [i]free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

==========================================
Jesus did not reject Judas as Judas was chosen to be the betrayer and also Jesus says he picked Judas, but that he was a devil. He was chosen to fulfil God's words prophetically spoken.

Jesus also says this though,
Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?”

He said to him, “You have said it.”

 

[shortangel]

i do understand about being disabled because i have a mild case of cerebral palsy, but i don't know if the Bible says anything about people with disabilties, i have read that there was a disabled man in the OT who was crippled in both feet

 

[Raccoon1010]

Great video Holy999. He is a very well educated man and fair minded. He clearly has sound reasoning. Refreshing to hear. He appears to be someone you can listen to rather than the typical nonsense spewed out with hate.

 

[Scott Downey]

i do understand about being disabled because i have a mild case of cerebral palsy, but i don't know if the Bible says anything about people with disabilties, i have read that there was a disabled man in the OT who was crippled in both feet

The bible speaks of many disabled people being healed by Christ and the apostles. In Christ healing all that had various physical problems, this showed to the people that He was who He said that He was. That He had authority over all of creation, and that he had mercy on them that were injured and sick.

Matthew 9:1-9​

​

King James Version​

​

​

1 And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
7 And he arose, and departed to his house.
8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.
9 And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him.

Matthew 4:24
NKJV
Then His fame went throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all sick people who were afflicted with various diseases and torments, and those who were demon-possessed, epileptics, and paralytics; and He healed them.

Luke 4
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

[Dropship]

Regarding disabilities, people should blame that creep Satan, not God.
Jesus said "Satan has bound this crippled woman for eighteen years" (Luke 13:10-16)
Then Jesus cured her..:)

 

[Raccoon1010]

Regarding disabilities, people should blame that creep Satan, not God.
Jesus said "Satan has bound this crippled woman for eighteen years" (Luke 13:10-16)
Then Jesus cured her..:)

Yes there's a lot of back and forth on who does the killing and wounding in the bible. The bible speaks of both God and Satan performing these tasks. Perhaps Satan does it for evil purposes while God does it for good purposes. But only God heals people.

 

[Scott Downey]

Yes there's a lot of back and forth on who does the killing and wounding in the bible. The bible speaks of both God and Satan performing these tasks. Perhaps Satan does it for evil purposes while God does it for good purposes. But only God heals people.

All those people God healed in the NT scriptures, eventually died of old age, injuries or sickness and entered eternity, perhaps many were saved, but some perhaps were not. We as believers don't get fully healed forever until we enter heaven and our eternal state after we physically pass on. Even if you feel healthy, your body is wearing itself down day after day as the years go by.

 

[quietthinker]

You are ignoring 'wrath of God' by saying they destroy themselves. That wrath is active, the wicked will feel it personally.
They do not suicide themselves, they are killed by Christ at His returning.
They are gathered there by the beast to fight against Christ in a strange war that they are so deceived about thinking that they can do anything against God almighty?

Revelation 19
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse.

Christ on a White Horse​

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a [g]sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

The Beast and His Armies Defeated​

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the [h]supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, [i]free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

==========================================
Jesus did not reject Judas as Judas was chosen to be the betrayer and also Jesus says he picked Judas, but that he was a devil. He was chosen to fulfil God's words prophetically spoken.

Jesus also says this though,
Matthew 26:24
The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”

25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, “Rabbi, is it I?”

He said to him, “You have said it.”

'God's wrath' or the 'wrath of God' is understood by what Paul wrote in Romans 1 ....ie, 'he gave them over'. This expression mentioned several times tells us he leaves them to the consequences of their choices.....this is the definition of 'the wrath of God'

I'm sorry, you've missed my point on Judas!

 

[Scott Downey]

'God's wrath' or the 'wrath of God' is understood by what Paul wrote in Romans 1 ....ie, 'he gave them over'. This expression mentioned several times tells us he leaves them to the consequences of their choices.....this is the definition of 'the wrath of God'

I'm sorry, you've missed my point on Judas!

God inflicts wrath, on the Day of wrath which is also known as the Day of the Lord.
His wrath is not passive. Do a search on the Day of the Lord in the scriptures and read about what happens to the wicked.

Romans 3

New King James Version

​

God’s Judgment Defended​

1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the [a]oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be [b]true but every man a liar. As it is written:
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”
5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?

Romans 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Romans 2:8
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

 

[Scott Downey]

People do not cast themselves into hell, they are thrown into the fire by the angels, that is what I mean by the active wrath of God, God inflicts on them His punishing wrath in hell.

The Parable of the Tares Explained​

Matthew 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

What Jesus is talking about is the deadly seriousness of sin, and its consequence.

 

[quietthinker]

God inflicts wrath, on the Day of wrath which is also known as the Day of the Lord.​

His wrath is not passive. Do a search on the Day of the Lord in the scriptures and read about what happens to the wicked.​

​

Romans 3​

​

New King James Version​

​

​

God’s Judgment Defended​

1 What advantage then has the Jew, or what is the profit of circumcision? 2 Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the [a]oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be [b]true but every man a liar. As it is written:
“That You may be justified in Your words,
And may overcome when You are judged.”
5 But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) 6 Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world?

Romans 2:5
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,

Romans 2:8
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

example:- being burnt by being in the presence of a powerful heater does not mean the heater deliberately burnt you.
example:- you do not blame the water in which a man drowns......the same water is drank by others.

I find it important to interpret the scriptures so they speak well of God. I do not find it helpful to interpret the scriptures based on a faulty understanding of God's character......even by the writers.

The Hebrews view of God was that of an Uber-Pharoah. Moses came from that culture.....you do what Pharaoh says or you die.
Jesus revealed a God who is self sacrificing......a previously unknown understanding by both the Hebrews and the rest of the world (pagan of course)

It is through lens of the reality of Jesus we must interpret the scriptures. If we don't we see God as an 'Uber-Pharoah'.....which, incidentally is how the religious world sees God.

an aside......in spite of mans faulty understanding of God's character, he worked with them anyway. He tried this angle then that angle and very other angle in the hope they would understand........finally he sent his Son.......and still we miss it!

 

[Scott Downey]

No one need cut off their hands or pluck out their eye to keep themself from being cast into the fire of hell. They need to be forgiven their sins, and in His name is preached the forgiveness of sin. But for those who do not believe that in Christ their sins have been forgiven them, they will experience hell fire as the wrath of God abides on those who do not believe in Christ, as Christ came to save His people from their sin.
John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Their deeds are wrought in the power of God
Very similar to Ephesians 2:10

NIVUK
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
NKJV
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[Scott Downey]

example:- being burnt by being in the presence of a powerful heater does not mean the heater deliberately burnt you.
example:- you do not blame the water in which a man drowns......the same water is drank by others.

I find it important to interpret the scriptures so they speak well of God. I do not find it helpful to interpret the scriptures based on a faulty understanding of God's character......even by the writers.

The Hebrews view of God was that of an Uber-Pharoah. Moses came from that culture.....you do what Pharaoh says or you die.
Jesus revealed a God who is self sacrificing......a previously unknown understanding by both the Hebrews and the rest of the world (pagan of course)

It is through lens of the reality of Jesus we must interpret the scriptures. If we don't we see God as an 'Uber-Pharoah'.....which, incidentally is how the religious world sees God.

an aside......in spite of mans faulty understanding of God's character, he worked with them anyway. He tried this angle then that angle and very other angle in the hope they would understand........finally he sent his Son.......and still we miss it!

You do not accept the word vengeance or wrath then with their well understood definition.
God takes vengeance on His enemies. God inflicts His wrath on the wicked.

Romans 12:19
Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

The above is active, not passive.

Jude 1:7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Isaiah 1:24
Therefore the Lord says, The Lord of hosts, the Mighty One of Israel, “Ah, I will rid Myself of My adversaries, And take vengeance on My enemies.

Isaiah 63:4
For the day of vengeance is in My heart, And the year of My redeemed has come.

Isaiah 61, which Jesus quoted but left off all these words after the middle of verse 2
The reason is that is still in the future, the eternal consolation of the believer for all that the wicked have troubled them about while they lived on the earth. Believers today still mourn in this world, suffer persecutions and sicknesses and pains. But will rejoice when the bridegroom appears to save them from this present evil age in which we find ourselves. Hebrews 9:28


2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To [b]console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”

 

[quietthinker]

People do not cast themselves into hell, they are thrown into the fire by the angels, that is what I mean by the active wrath of God, God inflicts on them His punishing wrath in hell.

Peter speaks about the planet being enveloped in fire so that the elements melt with fervent heat. Have you considered this fire could be man initiated?

There is an account in the book of Revelation of the New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven and the wicked dead are resurrected. These then march on the Holy city and attack. Could it be that the advanced nuclear weaponry they employ in their attack will ultimately set the whole world on fire and they will destroy themselves in the process......let me add, 'like the flood'?

John in his vision description says 'fire came down from Heaven and destroyed them'
I would suggest that from John's angle he would assume God doing this.....but what he actually sees is fire from 'heaven' ie, the sky. Does that sound like nuclear warfare?

Of course, if one's eschatology is about the return of Israel to the small slice of real estate in Palestine and the subsequent battles of earthly powers, one has set oneself up to misinterpret/misunderstand what the book of Revelation speaks of. One sees with a lens totally at odds with the book's intent.

 

[quietthinker]

People do not cast themselves into hell, they are thrown into the fire by the angels, that is what I mean by the active wrath of God, God inflicts on them His punishing wrath in hell.

The Parable of the Tares Explained​

Matthew 13
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 5:30
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

What Jesus is talking about is the deadly seriousness of sin, and its consequence.

Ok, let me ask you this; what is the nature of God's character that you see? Is it one which is described to Moses on the mountain when God passed by him and reiterated by the reality of Jesus or is he (if I might use the term) 'schizophrenic' were his behaviour is unpredictable? or do you have some other offering?

 

[Scott Downey]

Peter speaks about the planet being enveloped in fire so that the elements melt with fervent heat. Have you considered this fire could be man initiated?

There is an account in the book of Revelation of the New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven and the wicked dead are resurrected. These then march on the Holy city and attack. Could it be that the advanced nuclear weaponry they employ in their attack will ultimately set the whole world on fire and they will destroy themselves in the process......let me add, 'like the flood'?

John in his vision description says 'fire came down from Heaven and destroyed them'
I would suggest that from John's angle he would assume God doing this.....but what he actually sees is fire from 'heaven' ie, the sky. Does that sound like nuclear warfare?

Of course, if one's eschatology is about the return of Israel to the small slice of real estate in Palestine and the subsequent battles of earthly powers, one has set oneself up to misinterpret/misunderstand what the book of Revelation speaks of. One sees with a lens totally at odds with the book's intent.

That fire is God creating a new earth and a new heaven. Man cannot eliminate the earth and the heaven, only God can do it.
Besides that, Peter tells us it is the Day of the Lord, so no, nothing to do with man.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

---------------------------------------------

 

[Scott Downey]

Ok, let me ask you this; what is the nature of God's character that you see? Is it one which is described to Moses on the mountain when God passed by him and reiterated by the reality of Jesus or is he (if I might use the term) 'schizophrenic' were his behaviour is unpredictable? or do you have some other offering?

It has nothing to do with God being schizophrenic crazy like, unpredictable, which we really can't say much about at all, not having His mind.

God declares things to be as they are.
The things not yet done as though they were.
God does everything for His glory.

An example of by faith according to grace alone. Which means this is all God's doing.
Romans 4
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”

Isaiah 46 is another good example

8 “Remember this, and [b]show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

 

[quietthinker]

It has nothing to do with God being schizophrenic crazy like, unpredictable, which we really can't say much about at all, not having His mind.

God declares things to be as they are.
The things not yet done as though they were.
God does everything for His glory.

An example of by faith according to grace alone. Which means this is all God's doing.
Romans 4
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did; 18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed, so that he became the father of many nations, according to what was spoken, “So shall your descendants be.”

Isaiah 46 is another good example

8 “Remember this, and [b]show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’

sooo, I will ask again; what is the nature of the character of God that you see? It's a personal question.