Dispensationalism is it Scriptural?

[Harvest 1874]

As a new member of this forum I note that various discussions have been made on the subject of dispensationalism, some arguing for, others against that is to say whether or not it is a man-made doctrine or one actually taught in the scriptures.

First of all it might help if we define what a “dispensation” is, as there are various meanings or definitions to this term.

Dispensation: an act or instance of dispensing; distribution; for example the dispensation or distribution medication.

Dispensation: a formal authorization granting one exemption from a law, an oath, or possibly some church ordinance, for example the Church of Rome grants certain individuals dispensation from certain rules and regulations governing marriage and church membership.

Dispensation: a certain order, system, or arrangement; in regards to Theology the divine ordering of the affairs of the world; a divinely appointed order or age: For example the Jewish age or dispensation in comparisons with the Gospel or Christian age and dispensation.

Now we have noticed that some who claim that dispensationalism is a man-made doctrine seem to have no qualms with futurism or preterism as noted in their views on certain prophecies.

Preterist are those who maintain that many of the prophecies in the Revelation as well as those given in our Lord’s Great Prophecy have already been fulfilled, in the past, most at the end of the Jewish age.

Futurist on the other hand maintain that many if not all of these same prophecies are either presently being fulfilled or are still in the future to be fulfilled.

Dispensationalists contend that the Divine purpose in connection with mankind is a progressive one, one which the Lord has been outworking since the beginning of man’s creation, a “mystery” which has been hidden from the worldly wise one embracing many ages and dispensations, one which is not only attested to by the scriptures, but by the very facts of history itself.

We believe that the dispensationalist view is the correct one and that the other two are the man-made or man-contrived views. Of course understand that like all teachings they can be perverted and such there are who have perverted this doctrine, but don’t be too quick to cast it away this is very important lesson, essential to rightly dividing the Word of the Lord.

In the following text we find evidence of these ages or dispensations mentioned in the scriptures.

"I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the Mystery hidden from past ages and dispensations, but now revealed unto the saints." (Col. 1:24-26)

“For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—if indeed you have heard of the dispensation (administration or stewardship) of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages (past ages and dispensations) was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets. “Eph 3:1-5

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ… In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him.” Eph 1:3-10

And lastly according to the Apostle Peter in 2 Pet 3 God’s plan for man’s recovery is divided into three great epochs or dispensations called “worlds” in the Common Version — in the Greek, kosmos, meaning “arrangement.”— Strong and Young.

I will continue this post with the next post due to the 10000 character limit.

 

[Harvest 1874]

These three great epochs represent three distinct manifestations of divine providence. The first, from creation to the flood, was under the ministration of angels, and is called by Peter “the world that was.” 2 Pet. 3:6

The second great epoch, from the flood to the establishment of the kingdom of God, is under the limited control of Satan, “the prince of this world,” and is therefore called “this present evil world.” Gal. 1:4; 2 Pet. 3:7

The third is to be a “world without end” (Isa. 45:17) under divine administration, the kingdom of God, and is called “the world to come–wherein dwells righteousness.” Heb. 2:5; 2 Pet. 3:13

The first of these periods, or “worlds,” under the ministration of angels, was a failure; the second, under the rule of Satan, the usurper, has been indeed an “evil world”; but the third will be an era of righteousness and of blessing to all the families of the earth.

The last two of these “worlds” are most particularly mentioned, and the statements relative to them are in strong contrast. The present, or second period, is called “the present evil world,” not because there is nothing good in it, but because in it evil is permitted to predominate. “Now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.” (Mal. 3:15) The third world or epoch is mentioned as “the world to come–wherein dwells righteousness,” not because there will be no evil in it, but because evil will not predominate. The blotting out of evil will be gradual, requiring all of the first thousand years. Evil will not rule then; it will not prosper; it will no longer be the wicked that will flourish; but “the righteous shall flourish” (Psa. 72:7), the “obedient shall eat the good of the land” (Isa. 1:19), and “the evil doer shall be cut off.” Psa. 37:9

It should be remembered that this earth is the basis of all these “worlds” and dispensations, and that though ages pass and dispensations change, still the earth continues– “The earth abides forever.” (Eccl. 1:4) Carrying out the same figure, Peter calls each of these periods a separate heavens and earth. Here the word heaven symbolizes the higher or spiritual controlling powers, and earth symbolizes human government and social arrangements. Thus the first heavens and earth, or the order and arrangement of things then existing, having served their purpose, ended at the flood. But the physical heavens (sky and atmosphere), and the physical earth did not pass away: they remained. So likewise the present world (heavens and earth) will pass away with a great noise, fire and melting–confusion, trouble and dissolution (anarchy).

You will note that the first of these great epochs (“worlds”) was not subdivided: God’s method of dealing with men did not vary during all that time–from Adam’s fall to the flood. God had given man his law, written in his very nature; but after he had sinned he left him measurably to his own course, which was downward, “evil, and that continually,” that thus man might realize his folly, and that the wisdom of God in commanding absolute obedience might be made manifest. That dispensation ended with a flood, which took away all but faithful Noah and his family. Thus the first dispensation not only manifested the disastrous effects of sin, but showed that the tendency of sin is downward to greater degradation and misery, and proves the necessity of Jehovah’s interposition, if the recovery of “that which was lost”–man’s first estate–is ever to be accomplished.

The second epoch, or “present evil world,” includes three ages, each a step in the plan of God for the overthrow of evil. Each step is higher than that preceding it, and carries the plan forward and nearer to completion.

The third great epoch–“the world to come”—future from the second advent of Christ, comprises the Millennial Age, or “times of restitution”; and following it are other “ages to come,” the particulars of which are not revealed. Present revelations treat of man’s recovery from sin, and not of the eternity of glory to follow.

The first age in the “the present evil world” we call the Patriarchal Age, or dispensation, because during that period God’s dealings and favors were with a few individuals only, the remainder of mankind being almost ignored. Such favored ones were the patriarchs Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Each of these in turn seems to have been God’s favored one. At the death of Jacob, that age or order of dealing ended. At Jacob’s death, his descendants were first called “the twelve tribes of Israel,” and were together recognized of God as his “peculiar people”; and through typical sacrifices they were typically “a holy nation,” separated from other nations for a particular purpose, and therefore to enjoy certain special favors.

The time allotted to this feature of the divine plan, beginning here and ending at the death of Christ, we designate the Jewish Age, or the Law dispensation. During that age God specially blessed that nation. He gave them his law; he made a special covenant with them; he gave them the Tabernacle, whose Shekinah glory in the Most Holy represented Jehovah’s presence with them as their Leader and King. To them he sent the prophets, and finally his Son…That this national favor ended with their rejection and crucifixion of Jesus is shown by Jesus’ words, when, five days before his crucifixion, he declared, “Your house is left unto you desolate.” Matt. 23:38

There, at Jesus’ death, a new age began–the Christian Age or Gospel Dispensation, wherein should be heralded good tidings of justification, not to the Jew only, but to all nations; for Jesus Christ, by the grace of God, tasted death for every man. During this Gospel age also there is a class called to special favor, to whom special promises are made; namely, those who by faith accept Christ Jesus as their Redeemer and Lord, following in his footsteps. The gospel proclamation has gone hither and thither throughout the earth for over two thousand years, so that it can now be said that it has been preached more or less in every nation. It has not converted nations–it was not designed to do so in this age; but it has selected here and there some, in all a “little flock,” as Jesus had foretold (Luke 12:32), to whom it is the Father’s good pleasure to give the Kingdom in an age to follow this.

With this age the “present evil world” ends; and mark well that while God has been thus permitting the predominance and reign of evil, to the seeming detriment of his cause, nevertheless his deep designs have been steadily progressing according to a fixed and definite plan, and in the exact order of the seasons which he has appointed. In the end of this age, and the dawn of its successor, the millennial age, Satan is to be bound and his power overthrown, preparatory to the establishment of Christ’s kingdom and the beginning of “the world to come, wherein dwells righteousness.” (Extracts taken from SITS Volume I, page 65-75)

The trouble with most Christians today is that they have not properly learned to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Tim 2:15), not only in regards to the who, what, and where, but most importantly the when. “Instead of recognizing the various ages and dispensations–the Patriarchal age, the Jewish age, the Christian age and “the Ages to Come”–and seeing the work God is gradually perfecting through these ages, they think of God’s dealing as almost aimless and without order. Hence, instead of rightly dividing and applying the various statements of Scripture severally to the various ages and dispensations to which they properly belong, they mix them all together and have a disorderly and seemingly contradictory mass which they cannot understand and can scarcely realize to be a revelation at all. But, on the contrary, when the various ages are clearly in mind, and when the plan of God with reference to them is once seen, the Bible becomes an open book before the humble student–a great treasure-house of truth and grace, every statement of which can be definitely located. And when rightly applied to its proper age–past, present or future, as the case may be–the whole record from Genesis to Revelation falls into harmony. (Harvest Gleanings 3, Page 252)

 

[Stranger]

Harvest 1874

Welcome to the forum. What is significant about '1874'?

I am dispensationalist also. Look forward to your input.

Stranger

 

[Willie T]

You guys really believe that stuff, eh?

 

[Harvest 1874]

You guys really believe that stuff, eh?

Well lets see, the Word of God attest to it, the facts of history as they've played out thus far attest to it, so yes I would have say we believe it. So which is it for you, you can't accept the Word of God on the matter or is it history that's giving you the problems?

I would suggest you re-read the post and examine the scriptures for yourself, especially those found in 2 Pet 3, I don't believe the apostle could be any clearer on the matter. Paul's statement , "...the Mystery hidden from past ages and dispensations, but now revealed unto the saints." Likewise seems pretty clear.

An examination of the True Bible Chronology would probably help clear things up a bit likewise, you might start there. Knowing where exactly you are on the stream of time always helps.

 

[Willie T]

So, do you really believe that was written just a few years ago? Of course you don't. If you feel you have to get all hung up on the "D" word used in the translation, then you also have to see that Paul was speaking about "administrations" that occurred before his authorship, around 1,900 years ago, (the mid 60's AD) not maybe a hundred years ago. Where are the verses that give us all the start-and-finish dates of the dispensations that have been decreed since then?

 

[Harvest 1874]

Harvest 1874

Welcome to the forum. What is significant about '1874'?

I am dispensationalist also. Look forward to your input.

Stranger

Thank you,

1874 A.D. According to the True Bible Chronology marks the end of the first 6000 years since creation, and the beginning of the Millennial age, and what was it that was supposed to happen during that time, that’s right the “Harvest”, the “harvest is the end of the age” (Matt 13:39), the time for the separation of the “wheat and the tares”, and what is the tool which shall perform this separating work, why yes, that’s right the “sickle of truth”, it is the truth which is to do the separating work, separating the wheat (the true church) from the tares (the nominal professors). The wheat is being gathered into the Lord's barn (the holy or consecrated condition), and the tares are being bound together in their various bundles (sects, denominations) in preparation for the fire (trouble) of the Great Day.

“…Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for you to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.” Rev 14:15, 16

We are presently standing in the overlapping period of the ages, or what the scriptures refer to as the “ends of the ages” (1 Cor 10:11), the end of the Gospel age and the beginning of the Millennial age. Our Lord himself during his first advent appeared at the “ends of the ages”, only at that time it was the end of the Jewish age and the beginning of the Gospel age (Heb 9:26), there too there was a harvest, one which separated the wheat (of the Jewish house) from the chaff.

Now would not one be right to surmise that the Lord would make his second appearance in the harvest of this age, is he not "Lord of the Harvest"?

It is time to wake up, for the time is at hand.

 

[Harvest 1874]

So, do you really believe that was written just a few years ago? Of course you don't. If you feel you have to get all hung up on the "D" word used in the translation, then you also have to see that Paul was speaking about "administrations" that occurred before his authorship, around 1,900 years ago, (the mid 60's AD) not maybe a hundred years ago. Where are the verses that give us all the start-and-finish dates of the dispensations that have been decreed since then?

Sorry Willie, but I don't follow,

What was written a few years ago? What are you referring to?

As for being "hung up on the “D” word", I believe the various dispensations and ages are scriptural facts, testified by the scriptures, in other words "sound doctrine", there’s nothing here to be hung up on, unless you don’t believe the written testimony.

As for the last part of your statement concerning Paul, I'm afraid I'm lost, you might try rephrasing it.

 

[Stranger]

Thank you,

1874 A.D. According to the True Bible Chronology marks the end of the first 6000 years since creation, and the beginning of the Millennial age, and what was it that was supposed to happen during that time, that’s right the “Harvest”, the “harvest is the end of the age” (Matt 13:39), the time for the separation of the “wheat and the tares”, and what is the tool which shall perform this separating work, why yes, that’s right the “sickle of truth”, it is the truth which is to do the separating work, separating the wheat (the true church) from the tares (the nominal professors). The wheat is being gathered into the Lord's barn (the holy or consecrated condition), and the tares are being bound together in their various bundles (sects, denominations) in preparation for the fire (trouble) of the Great Day.

“…Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for you to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.” Rev 14:15, 16

We are presently standing in the overlapping period of the ages, or what the scriptures refer to as the “ends of the ages” (1 Cor 10:11), the end of the Gospel age and the beginning of the Millennial age. Our Lord himself during his first advent appeared at the “ends of the ages”, only at that time it was the end of the Jewish age and the beginning of the Gospel age (Heb 9:26), there too there was a harvest, one which separated the wheat (of the Jewish house) from the chaff.

Now would not one be right to surmise that the Lord would make his second appearance in the harvest of this age, is he not "Lord of the Harvest"?

It is time to wake up, for the time is at hand.

It is interesting, and we certainly live in interesting times. I am not familiar with your identification of 1864.

I didn't see in your writing any mention of the rapture of the Church or of the Great Tribulation period. From your use of (Rev. 14) I assume you see us already in that time period.

Also, you seem to speak of national Israel in the past tense as if God is finished with her. Do I read you correctly here?

I noticed you referenced "Harvest Gleanings" and "SITS". What are those?

Is there a name to the certain form of dispensational teaching you believe?

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

Me im just a Christian, as if God cares about big words and mens arguments over them,

But welcome.

 

[kit]

I think about this stuff, but my poor brain has been unable to find any answers or even vantage points. So thanks for raising this.

I dont know if this fits into the conversation or not, but given that the Bible has only been available to the general populations since about 500 years ago (and still isnt available in all languages) is that an aspect of Dispensation?

 

[Stranger]

I think about this stuff, but my poor brain has been unable to find any answers or even vantage points. So thanks for raising this.

I dont know if this fits into the conversation or not, but given that the Bible has only been available to the general populations since about 500 years ago (and still isnt available in all languages) is that an aspect of Dispensation?

In a way it does help understand it. As a start, recognize that most everyone is a 'dispensationalist' to a degree. If you believe the Bible consists of an Old and New Testament, then you see two dispensations. Therefore a complete Bible is necessary for this.

The complete written revelation from God took many years to finish and therefore revelation is progressive. Just as revelation was progressive, so is our knowledge of it. So, we study and learn and build upon it.

In other words, just because dispensations as a doctrine was later doesn't mean it isn't valid. Just because the Reformers broke away from the Roman Church doesn't mean they knew all there was to know about the Bible.

Stranger

 

[Harvest 1874]

It is interesting, and we certainly live in interesting times. I am not familiar with your identification of 1864.

I didn't see in your writing any mention of the rapture of the Church or of the Great Tribulation period. From your use of (Rev. 14) I assume you see us already in that time period.

Also, you seem to speak of national Israel in the past tense as if God is finished with her. Do I read you correctly here?

I noticed you referenced "Harvest Gleanings" and "SITS". What are those?

Is there a name to the certain form of dispensational teaching you believe?

Stranger

It is interesting, and we certainly live in interesting times. I am not familiar with your identification of 1864.

I believe you meant 1874

I didn't see in your writing any mention of the rapture of the Church or of the Great Tribulation period. From your use of (Rev. 14) I assume you see us already in that time period.

Allow me to clear a few things up, first of all I’m not a Seventh Day Adventist, a Sabbath Keeper, a Jehovah’s Witness or any such thing I’m not affiliated with any denomination, What I am is a Bible Student, we don’t believe in the “rapture” of the church nor the Seven year tribulation as is commonly taught, we don’t believe in the Trinity doctrine, eternal torment as the wages of sin nor the idea that man has a soul, man IS a soul, and no it is not immortal.

Also, you seem to speak of national Israel in the past tense as if God is finished with her. Do I read you correctly here?

I speak of the Jewish age as being past tense not the Jewish people; they are beloved for the father’s sake (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and etc.) and they will play a prominent role in the earthly phase of the kingdom.

I noticed you referenced "Harvest Gleanings" and "SITS". What are those?

Harvest Gleanings and “SITS” short for the “Studies in the Scriptures” series contain what we Bible Students refer to as “meat in due season” (Matt 24:45). The Lord at various points throughout the history of the church has provided special food for his people at the appropriate time. Some aspects of the truth were not made known to the church in the past because it was not the due time for its revelation, the Lord providing them only that which they needed. Here at the end of the Gospel age we have entered the harvest period, the end of the age and the great store house of truth has been fully opened, that is to those who hunger and thirst, to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. The prophet Daniel spoke of our time when he said that the words of the book (God’s Plan of the Ages) would be sealed up until “the time of the end”, and at that time the wise (those filled with that wisdom which comes from above, spiritual insight) shall understand. (Dan 12: 4, 10)

Is there a name to the certain form of dispensational teaching you believe?

No not really, none that I know of, we just follow what the scriptures reveal on the matter, as I told Willie you can’t get any clearer than 2 Pet 3 on the matter, the Apostle makes it clear that there were at the very least three different dispensations or ages, and we know from the study of God’s word (and history itself) that the second of these dispensations was divided into smaller ages or dispensations, i.e. the age before the flood, the Patriarchal Age, the Jewish age and the Gospel age, what could be more clear. One would have to be completely blind not to see this.

 

[Stranger]

It is interesting, and we certainly live in interesting times. I am not familiar with your identification of 1864.

I believe you meant 1874

I didn't see in your writing any mention of the rapture of the Church or of the Great Tribulation period. From your use of (Rev. 14) I assume you see us already in that time period.

Allow me to clear a few things up, first of all I’m not a Seventh Day Adventist, a Sabbath Keeper, a Jehovah’s Witness or any such thing I’m not affiliated with any denomination, What I am is a Bible Student, we don’t believe in the “rapture” of the church nor the Seven year tribulation as is commonly taught, we don’t believe in the Trinity doctrine, eternal torment as the wages of sin nor the idea that man has a soul, man IS a soul, and no it is not immortal.

Also, you seem to speak of national Israel in the past tense as if God is finished with her. Do I read you correctly here?

I speak of the Jewish age as being past tense not the Jewish people; they are beloved for the father’s sake (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and etc.) and they will play a prominent role in the earthly phase of the kingdom.

I noticed you referenced "Harvest Gleanings" and "SITS". What are those?

Harvest Gleanings and “SITS” short for the “Studies in the Scriptures” series contain what we Bible Students refer to as “meat in due season” (Matt 24:45). The Lord at various points throughout the history of the church has provided special food for his people at the appropriate time. Some aspects of the truth were not made known to the church in the past because it was not the due time for its revelation, the Lord providing them only that which they needed. Here at the end of the Gospel age we have entered the harvest period, the end of the age and the great store house of truth has been fully opened, that is to those who hunger and thirst, to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear. The prophet Daniel spoke of our time when he said that the words of the book (God’s Plan of the Ages) would be sealed up until “the time of the end”, and at that time the wise (those filled with that wisdom which comes from above, spiritual insight) shall understand. (Dan 12: 4, 10)

Is there a name to the certain form of dispensational teaching you believe?

No not really, none that I know of, we just follow what the scriptures reveal on the matter, as I told Willie you can’t get any clearer than 2 Pet 3 on the matter, the Apostle makes it clear that there were at the very least three different dispensations or ages, and we know from the study of God’s word (and history itself) that the second of these dispensations was divided into smaller ages or dispensations, i.e. the age before the flood, the Patriarchal Age, the Jewish age and the Gospel age, what could be more clear. One would have to be completely blind not to see this.

Yes, my mistake on the date.

Well, you and I are far apart as to the Trinity, and Tribulation, and Rapture, and everything else it seems. I don't have time now but I'm sure we will discuss this later on.

Stranger

 

[Taken]

Dispensation ~
is simply a fancy word for a system of order.

God has a system of Order. And How, And When, And to Whom, the Order Progresses and Applies to the particular individual.

When MEN decide WHAT to call Gods ORDER, they also begin deciding WHAT "they" determine Gods Order, does or does not include, and IF and WHEN it is applicable.

The Beginning of Gods ORDER always applies to a MAN, who is: beginning to Learn About God...
Weather it be the first man, an OT child being taught, a 5 yr old of any era, an 80 yr old of any era......A beginning is always taught, a little bit at a time.
As the little bits, continue being added, the "adding" is likened to a STURDY FOUNDATION, being built on the Word of God.

Gods Order is not something new.
Mans wording is what is new, and what can be corrupted.

Isaiah 28
10: For precept MUST be upon precept.

This is telling us, we do not build our foundation out of sand, or start in the middle, or not know what we are building our foundation "on"....ie the Word of God.

Isaiah 28:
10: ...precept upon precept; line upon line; HERE A LITTLE, and THERE A LITTLE.

This is telling us, small accomplishments bit by bit upon the rock, ie who IS Christ, ie who IS the Word of God....shall give us an outcome of a rock solid unwavering foundation IN Christ, as IS favorable and acceptable to God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I think about this stuff, but my poor brain has been unable to find any answers or even vantage points. So thanks for raising this.

I dont know if this fits into the conversation or not, but given that the Bible has only been available to the general populations since about 500 years ago (and still isnt available in all languages) is that an aspect of Dispensation?

True...about the availability to all having a written Bible. And while it is available to buy, and many have bought or been given Bibles, few read them, and few study them.

Word of mouth has been the primary "tool" of communication from the beginning, and throughout history, and increased greatly via the telegraph & telephone, and increased exponentially, via the internet.

If you missed out on mans' idea of dispensation and all the man's rules pertaining to dispensation....no problem.

Gods Order still stands, and is simply:
He is the ROCK, and any person learning about God, begin bit by bit, establishing their foundation upon His knowlege, His precepts, His wisdom, His understanding.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Harvest ~ Welcome,

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Harvest 1874]

Me im just a Christian, as if God cares about big words and mens arguments over them,

But welcome.

Thank you mj

The Scriptural statement, as we recall, is that not many great, not many wise, not many learned, not many rich, not many noble, according to the course of this world, but rather the poor, rich in faith, hath God chosen to be heirs of the Kingdom.--1 Cor 1:26-28; James 2:5.

It’s not expected that there would be too many wise or learned brethren amongst the Lord’s true people, the majority are as stated the poor (not poor in riches, but poor in spirit; Matt 5:3, the meek the humble) nevertheless rich in faith, and where there is faith it can be built upon.

We understand that amongst God’s children there are those within “the household of faith” who are in various degrees of development (or growth), both in the graces (the fruits of the spirt) and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus, BOTH of which we are admonished to mature or grow in.

There are three levels of Christians, actually four if we count those believers not yet fully consecrated to the Lord, such having not yet been begotten of the spirit, remain “natural men”, and as such are limited in their understanding, nevertheless because of their faith they are still considered members of the household of faith.

Now the other three types of Christians have all been begotten of the spirit, they consist of “babes in Christ”, “youths”, and “mature” Christians, those “full of age” (Heb 5:14). This has nothing whatsoever to do with actual physical age; there are probably many youths and possibly a few mature Christians (Timothy comes to mind) who are physically young even as there are plenty of older Christians who are but “babes” when it comes to their Christian development.

It’s a good reasonable guess that there are very few mature Christians; most consist of those ranging from babes to youths or somewhere in between (this is where I place myself). Keep in mind the Church consist of a "little flock" of faithful over-comers, only those who make their calling and election sure will be included in the body of Christ. To be a mature Christian implies that one has fully “put on Christ” (Gal 3:27), that they have reached full adulthood, “to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” Eph 4:13 That they have obtained as near as possible a Christ likeness.

Thus you will note that in many of my posts when attempting to explain things I tend to go into details a lot of times, if a word or phrase needs to be elaborated upon to make things more easily understood then so be it. To some this may seem a bit overboard, but as a faithful steward of the Lord’s “goods” I feel it is my responsibility to be as clear as I can seeing as not all are on the same level of learning (that is with regards to spiritual things).

I myself only graduated high school I don’t have any further education nor any formal schooling in the Word of God (viz. from one of the various schools of men), most of what I have learned comes from personal study of the scriptures and by making use of all the various “helps” the Lord has provided for his people (Such as bible study aids, concordances, Lexicons, various translations, dictionaries… and of course the Internet, etc., etc.)

Remember the Lord is a rewarder of those who diligently (and truthfully) seek him, who seek for that knowledge which comes from above. God is not going to reveal his plans to the lukewarm listless Christian (carried about by every wind of doctrine), nor to the mere curiously seeker or the fault finder, these all waste their time, better they stick to worldly pursuits.

And as we have stated he is well aware of whom he is dealing with, he knows that amongst those who are truly seeking to know him that there are not many wise or learned according to this world’s wisdom, and so not only has he provided all the necessary helps along the lines of the before mentioned written materials, but likewise he has provided the greatest assistance of all, the brethren themselves (I know you were waiting for me to say the Holy Spirit, and this is true for without the Spirits guidance we would all be lost), nevertheless the Lord has deemed fit to make it necessary for us in order to grow in grace and in knowledge to seek out the assistance of our fellow brethren, for he has not given all truth to any one individual, but rather has seen fit to dispense the knowledge of the truth, its various aspects amongst the brethren thereby insuring their need for one another. We are “joined and knitted together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part (or member) contributes its share, causing growth in the body for the edifying of itself in love.” (Eph 4:16)


Harvest

 

[Harvest 1874]

I think about this stuff, but my poor brain has been unable to find any answers or even vantage points. So thanks for raising this.

I dont know if this fits into the conversation or not, but given that the Bible has only been available to the general populations since about 500 years ago (and still isnt available in all languages) is that an aspect of Dispensation?

Sorry my friend that I could not reply to your question right away, but unfortunately I still have to work all day, and the evenings are my only opportunity to reply to any post.

Your question is a very good one, and relates to the words of our Lord as stated in Matt 24:14, viz. “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt 24:14

This is a part of our Lord’s reply to his disciples when he was relating to them events which would take place (some prior to, others during or at the time) of his Greek: parousia (presence) and the end of the age.

Their question being exactly, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of your presence, and of the end of the age?”

So yes in answer to your question this does fit into the conversation concerning the dispensations.

The end of the age (or dispensation) here being referred to was the end of the Gospel age, at which time the Lord’s second advent was to take place. The Jewish age or Law dispensation was coming to a close, their house having been declared desolate (Matt 23:38), and as such the Gospel age was just opening, nevertheless the disciples desired to know how long would this age last, when would this age end, and what would be the sign of the Lord’s presence.

In his conversation with the disciples he pointed out several of the signs, but of course this conversation taking place before Pentecost they had not yet received the Holy Spirits enlightenment, and so they did not fully understand at that time. One of the signs of the end of the age is the harvest, as our Lord so mentioned in Matt 13:39, “the harvest is the end of the age” (Matt 13:39).

According to the scriptures the harvest is to take place at the end of the Gospel age, determining the exact end of the Gospel age is a bit tricky because at its end, it overlaps the next age or dispensation, the “Millennial age”. Just as the harvest of the Jewish age took place at the end of their age so too the harvest of the Gospel age. We don’t know the exact end of the Gospel age because we don’t know the exact end or length of the Gospel harvest. At one time many of the brethren believed that the gospel harvest paralleled the Jewish harvest that since the Jewish harvest lasted 40 years the Gospel harvest would be the same, but that time has come and gone and the harvest continues.

How do we know we’ve reached the end of the age, because the True Bible Chronology reveals Adam’s creation to be in 4128 B.C., his fall took place in 4126 B.C. From then till 1874 A.D. is 6000 years. 1000 years more brings us to the time when Christ will deliver up the Kingdom to the Father (1 Cor. 15:23-28). Thus, God's Sabbath day (the day when God rested from his work of creation Gen 2:3) comprises a period of 7000 years in all.

Having now a point of reference we can take another look at our text, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt 24:14

This text implies that the gospel of the kingdom will have been (past tense) preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations prior to the end of the age. Since we’ve already reached the end of the age this implies that the gospel has indeed been preached in all the world.

As far back as 1861, reports from various Bible Societies (publishers and etc.) showed that the Gospel had been published in every language of earth, though not all earth’s billions have received it.

I believe the difficulty here is in a proper understanding of the text itself. Some read into it that which is not so stated. Some believe that it implies the conversion of the world before the end of the Gospel age can come to a close, that everyone must hear it first.

However witnessing to the world does not imply the conversion of the world. The text says nothing about how the testimony would be received. Likewise note that the text says it would be preached in every nation, NOT to every individual. The fact is that although the gospel has gone out in all the earth, millions still probably have never even heard of the one name under the heavens whereby they might be saved (Just as millions prior to Christ first advent had never heard of the name Jesus). Even so the condition of the text is fulfilled; the gospel has been preached in all the world for a witness to every nation.

The Apostle in Acts 15:14 tells us that the main object of the gospel in the present age is “to take out a people” for Christ’s name, the overcoming Church, which at his second advent will be united to him and receive his name. The witnessing to the world during this age is a secondary object.” The world will receive its witness in the next age.

“For he is the propitiation (satisfaction, the “atoning sacrifice”) for OUR sins (the Church, his body): AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2

Not only for those who believe now, but also for those who will accept him in the next age, when the blindness which covers them all, shall be lifted, See Acts 15:14-17; 2 Cor 5:19; 1 Tim 4:10

Then shall “the knowledge of the Lord cover the earth as the waters cover the sea” (Isa 11:9)

“For then will I turn to the people a pure language (truth, uncluttered with the doctrines of men), that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.” Zep 3:9

Hope this helps, but if you still have any questions or comments, I will try to address them as soon as I can.

 

[kit]

Sorry my friend that I could not reply to your question right away, but unfortunately I still have to work all day, and the evenings are my only opportunity to reply to any post.

Your question is a very good one, and relates to the words of our Lord as stated in Matt 24:14, viz. “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt 24:14

This is a part of our Lord’s reply to his disciples when he was relating to them events which would take place (some prior to, others during or at the time) of his Greek: parousia (presence) and the end of the age.

Their question being exactly, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of your presence, and of the end of the age?”

So yes in answer to your question this does fit into the conversation concerning the dispensations.

The end of the age (or dispensation) here being referred to was the end of the Gospel age, at which time the Lord’s second advent was to take place. The Jewish age or Law dispensation was coming to a close, their house having been declared desolate (Matt 23:38), and as such the Gospel age was just opening, nevertheless the disciples desired to know how long would this age last, when would this age end, and what would be the sign of the Lord’s presence.

In his conversation with the disciples he pointed out several of the signs, but of course this conversation taking place before Pentecost they had not yet received the Holy Spirits enlightenment, and so they did not fully understand at that time. One of the signs of the end of the age is the harvest, as our Lord so mentioned in Matt 13:39, “the harvest is the end of the age” (Matt 13:39).

According to the scriptures the harvest is to take place at the end of the Gospel age, determining the exact end of the Gospel age is a bit tricky because at its end, it overlaps the next age or dispensation, the “Millennial age”. Just as the harvest of the Jewish age took place at the end of their age so too the harvest of the Gospel age. We don’t know the exact end of the Gospel age because we don’t know the exact end or length of the Gospel harvest. At one time many of the brethren believed that the gospel harvest paralleled the Jewish harvest that since the Jewish harvest lasted 40 years the Gospel harvest would be the same, but that time has come and gone and the harvest continues.

How do we know we’ve reached the end of the age, because the True Bible Chronology reveals Adam’s creation to be in 4128 B.C., his fall took place in 4126 B.C. From then till 1874 A.D. is 6000 years. 1000 years more brings us to the time when Christ will deliver up the Kingdom to the Father (1 Cor. 15:23-28). Thus, God's Sabbath day (the day when God rested from his work of creation Gen 2:3) comprises a period of 7000 years in all.

Having now a point of reference we can take another look at our text, “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matt 24:14

This text implies that the gospel of the kingdom will have been (past tense) preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations prior to the end of the age. Since we’ve already reached the end of the age this implies that the gospel has indeed been preached in all the world.

As far back as 1861, reports from various Bible Societies (publishers and etc.) showed that the Gospel had been published in every language of earth, though not all earth’s billions have received it.

I believe the difficulty here is in a proper understanding of the text itself. Some read into it that which is not so stated. Some believe that it implies the conversion of the world before the end of the Gospel age can come to a close, that everyone must hear it first.

However witnessing to the world does not imply the conversion of the world. The text says nothing about how the testimony would be received. Likewise note that the text says it would be preached in every nation, NOT to every individual. The fact is that although the gospel has gone out in all the earth, millions still probably have never even heard of the one name under the heavens whereby they might be saved (Just as millions prior to Christ first advent had never heard of the name Jesus). Even so the condition of the text is fulfilled; the gospel has been preached in all the world for a witness to every nation.

The Apostle in Acts 15:14 tells us that the main object of the gospel in the present age is “to take out a people” for Christ’s name, the overcoming Church, which at his second advent will be united to him and receive his name. The witnessing to the world during this age is a secondary object.” The world will receive its witness in the next age.

“For he is the propitiation (satisfaction, the “atoning sacrifice”) for OUR sins (the Church, his body): AND NOT FOR OURS ONLY, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2

Not only for those who believe now, but also for those who will accept him in the next age, when the blindness which covers them all, shall be lifted, See Acts 15:14-17; 2 Cor 5:19; 1 Tim 4:10

Then shall “the knowledge of the Lord cover the earth as the waters cover the sea” (Isa 11:9)

“For then will I turn to the people a pure language (truth, uncluttered with the doctrines of men), that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.” Zep 3:9

Hope this helps, but if you still have any questions or comments, I will try to address them as soon as I can.

Thanks so much for this informative response! No worries about a not-instant reply. But you've apologized to a Canadian so now we might get locked into an apology cycle (as Canadians are known for this, lol). Im sorry that after you took time to get me this thorough response that I was already off line for the evening. As an aside, you say you "still" have to work days; does that mean that the end of this is in sight?

Im digesting this info you've shared. And the whole deal is really something that hasn't been part of my Church life or study. So while theres no doubt lots to discuss I think Im just gonna let this all sink in for now.

Thanks again for this info