Dispensationalism versus Hyper-Dispensationalism

[CoreIssue]

He was not called *JESUS* until He was born to Mary. But the Word -- the Son of God -- existed from eternity past (from everlasting). How come you are not aware of this?

His flesh did not exist in the OT and that is what was named Jesus, not his spirit.

How come you are not aware of this?

Jesus died on the cross, God did not. Jesus was resurrected, God was not. Jesus was glorified in heaven. God was not.

Jesus was the second Adam, a human being. God was not.

 

[Enoch111]

His flesh did not exist in the OT and that is what was named Jesus, not his spirit. Jesus died on the cross, God did not. Jesus was resurrected, God was not. Jesus was glorified in heaven. God was not. Jesus was the second Adam, a human being. God was not.

At least now we know that you have a heretical view of Christ. Go check out the thread "Who is Jesus Christ?" for Bible truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

At least now we know that you have a heretical view of Christ. Go check out the thread "Who is Jesus Christ?" for Bible truth.

Just like your support of Easter in the Bible.

Where is it? Not found in search.

 

[CoreIssue]

Just like your support of Easter in the Bible.

Where is it? Not found in search.

I found it. You just added it. And of course it's only one post from you.

Again declaring the truth, such as with Easter and that the KJV is the only true Bible.

 

[mjrhealth]

Zacharias and Elizabeth were declared righteous while living under the Law. They were also blameless concerning obedience to the Law. Please harmonize this passage with your belief that it is impossible to keep the Law.

Because it is, it is why Christ came, not so "you" could keep the Law so that you wouldnt be condemned for your sins.

Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

simple fact is you dont, even a mans thoughts betray him, and all the lawyers always sound juts like this man,

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

always boasting of how you do this and that, you do know why we have grace,,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

so while you boast of how you keep the law I can only boast of Christ Crucified and all the works He has done.

and so you like so many lay stumbling blocks before Gods children and hinder them in there faith,

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

so if righteousness doesnt come by the law, than it serves what purpose??? Id did what it did, it showed the Jews they couldnt save themselves by there works, and taught them sin. now even they are supposed to be dead to teh law, but you have made it alive to you..

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

that is why we have grace because we are the bride to be of Christ, not the law, you know a woman who sleeps with other men is called a harlot....

Gal_2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

choose your Husband we can only serve one master

 

[gadar perets]

Because it is, it is why Christ came, not so "you" could keep the Law so that you wouldnt be condemned for your sins.

Joh_7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Yeshua certainly did NOT come so I can continue to live in the same sins he cleansed me of.

How did I know you wouldn't harmonize Luke 1:5-6 with your view?

simple fact is you dont, even a mans thoughts betray him, and all the lawyers always sound juts like this man,

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

always boasting of how you do this and that, you do know why we have grace,,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

so while you boast of how you keep the law I can only boast of Christ Crucified and all the works He has done.

You interpret my words as boasting because you are judgmental and read into them whatsoever you choose. You put all law keepers in your little man-made box.

and so you like so many lay stumbling blocks before Gods children and hinder them in there faith,

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

so if righteousness doesnt come by the law, than it serves what purpose??? Id did what it did, it showed the Jews they couldnt save themselves by there works, and taught them sin. now even they are supposed to be dead to teh law, but you have made it alive to you..

Not once did I ever say or teach that righteousness or salvation comes by law keeping. You love to let your imagination run wild.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

that is why we have grace because we are the bride to be of Christ, not the law, you know a woman who sleeps with other men is called a harlot....

Gal_2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

choose your Husband we can only serve one master

The Law did not die. I did, freeing me from the bondage of breaking it (freeing me from sin) so I could be married to Messiah. As with any remarriage after the first husband's death, the wife is still not permitted to break any of the Ten Commandments or any other law. The remarried wife is NOT free to sin (break the law - 1 John 3:4).

 

[mjrhealth]

The Law did not die. I did, freeing me from the bondage of breaking it (freeing me from sin) so I could be married to Messiah. As with any remarriage after the first husband's death, the wife is still not permitted to break any of the Ten Commandments or any other law. The remarried wife is NOT free to sin (break the law - 1 John 3:4).

See this is your justification to keep the Law, that was never given to you in teh first place, since all it does is bring judgment (as you put it, just doing its job)and remind people of there sin, and therefore you sin, not because of who you are but because you choose to keep the law. The law has nothing to do with those who are in Christ, it is for sinners. Those in Christ have one obligation to Love others as He loves us. Which is hard enough in itself even with Him.
As it says

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

and

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

so you keep it why??

Faith is what please God but religious men love there works,

 

[gadar perets]

See this is your justification to keep the Law, that was never given to you in teh first place, since all it does is bring judgment (as you put it, just doing its job)and remind people of there sin, and therefore you sin, not because of who you are but because you choose to keep the law. The law has nothing to do with those who are in Christ, it is for sinners. Those in Christ have one obligation to Love others as He loves us. Which is hard enough in itself even with Him.

Are you trying to tell me you do not sin? Causing someone to work on the Sabbath or feeding your children swine's flesh are not acts of love.

What does 1 John 5:3 mean to you?

As it says

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

In other words, "condemned breaking the law in the flesh". Romans 8:4-7 goes on to say,

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.​

The spiritual mind WILL BE SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD and the CARNAL MIND will not be. Which mind do you have?

and

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

so you keep it why??

Faith is what please God but religious men love there works,

I do not keep the Law to be justified (made righteous). My righteousness comes by faith just as Zacharias' and Elizabeth's, but faith without works is dead. Among those works that all believers are to do is keeping YHWH's commandments. I am still waiting for you to harmonize Luke 1:5-6 with your beliefs. BTW, the reason you keep quoting verses about righteousness vs. law is because you can't understand that a person can obey the law without seeking to be justified by it. That is exactly what Zacharias and Elizabeth did. Their faith made them righteous and that faith was made evident by their works of obedience to all of YHWH's commandments.

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you trying to tell me you do not sin? Causing someone to work on the Sabbath or feeding your children swine's flesh are not a

we all sin. some just choose to accept that we are forgiven others would rather earn it, As for the sabbath we rest from our "own' works in Christ, and we all know what the religious wanted to do when Jesus healed the sick man on the Sabbath,,,,

this one

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

and this one

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

and this one

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

and one more

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

the law requires you too work therefore you are not resting and continually breaking the Sabbath,,

If you want teh Sabbath it is your so keep just dont lay that burden on Gods people.

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

 

[gadar perets]

we all sin. some just choose to accept that we are forgiven others would rather earn it,

Wow! Now law keepers are seeking to earn forgiveness. Thank you Dr. Freud for your incredible insights into other people's minds. You are a sick, judgmental man. But hey, if it makes you feel better to cut me down, have at it. My Savior had to deal with the false accusations of ignorant men as well. I'm in good company.

As for the sabbath we rest from our "own' works in Christ,

How come the believers of Revelation 14:13 do not get to rest from their labors until they die?

this one

Mat_11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Yeshua does NOT give anyone a physical rest. That is why we still need sleep and the Sabbath rest. I, and all Sabbath keepers rejoice in the spiritual rest we have in Messiah. We rest from sin and from seeking to be justified by our works.

and this one

Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

The subjects of this verse could not enter YHWH's rest because they had no FAITH, not because they had YHWH's Sabbath.

and this one

Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

and one more

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Yes, they had the gospel, but NO FAITH. In your ignorance, you blame the Sabbath instead of their lack of faith to obey YHWH and believe His words.

Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The original account from which Hebrews 4:1-11 is taken is found in Numbers 14:22-24, 28-30, and Deuteronomy 1:30-40. In both passages it was the "land" (of Canaan) that was being withheld because of unbelief. The children of Israel were on their wilderness journey to the "promised land," which was a type of the "rest" to come. Joshua brought them into that land or the typical "rest" (Joshua 1:13-15; 21:44; 22:4), yet the Almighty again spoke through David concerning this greater rest. In Psalm 95:11, David uses the phrase "my rest" instead of "the land" as in the original promise. Why? Because "the land" was only a type of the future rest to come when true believers enter into the true promised land, the "heavenly country" that the patriarchs of old saw from afar (Hebrews 11:13-16).

We are currently on our wilderness journey as well. We are heading for the heavenly country promised us. Just as the Israelites continued keeping the Sabbath rest throughout their wilderness journey, so, too, must we continue to keep the Sabbath rest. In fact, the Israelites continued to keep the Sabbath even after entering the typical promised land of Canaan. We, too, will continue in the Sabbath rest as prophesied by Isaiah (66:22,23) even after the new heaven and new earth come.

If the common Christian view of Hebrews 4:10 is correct, that the Sabbath is abolished because we have entered the true rest, then, to be consistent, it must also be true that all work is abolished since we have ceased from our own works. In other words, if the physical rest is done away with, then the physical labor should also be done away with. However, since believers continue to do physical labors like farming, construction work, etc., they should also continue to rest from such labor as it is written. Additionally, the Sabbath rest is commanded for the sake of animals as well. Is it now permissible for farmers to work their animals seven days a week? Do animals somehow enter into the true rest as well?

Hebrews 4:11 talks about laboring to enter into that rest. It is not something we automatically receive upon accepting Yeshua as our Savior except by faith. That rest will become a reality upon our resurrection unto eternal life. That is why we see the saints of Revelation 14:12,13 laboring right up until death. It is only after death that the ultimate rest can literally begin. Note, also, that those saints "keep the commandments of God" (KJV), among which is the Sabbath.

We certainly can find rest for our souls in Messiah (Matthew 11:28,29), but he does not give our bodies rest, nor does he give animals rest. That kind of rest is only available through the Sabbath rest. Jeremiah 6:16 reads, "Thus saith Yahweh, 'Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls.' But they said, 'We will not walk therein.' " The "old paths" and the "good way" that provides a "rest for the soul" includes the keeping of Yahweh's Sabbaths. Notice the similar wording found in Isaiah 58:12,13. The rest we have in Yeshua is only a foretaste of the rest to come at his second coming when we will be dwelling in the presence of the Father and the Son in the glorious "heavenly country".

the law requires you too work therefore you are not resting and continually breaking the Sabbath,,

AS a believer in Messiah Yeshua, I am not "required" to work. I am "ordained" to work (Ephesians 2:10).

If you want teh Sabbath it is your so keep just dont lay that burden on Gods people.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.​

You have such a woefully distorted view of YHWH's laws that you consider them a burden, but YHWH's true people consider them a joy.

Psa 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O YHWH; and thy law is my delight.

Psa 19:8 The statutes of YHWH are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of YHWH is pure, enlightening the eyes.
​

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The context is about being saved by keeping the law. I do no such thing. I am saved by grace through faith. My obedience to the Law is a fruit of my salvation.

 

[mjrhealth]

@gadar perets you can sit here all day and drivel garbage out of your mouth but it doesnt change the fact that we are under grace and not the law, we are gentiles not Jews, we came to Christ under Grace not the Law, remember this bit,

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

good luck on doing that yourself..

 

[gadar perets]

@gadar perets you can sit here all day and drivel garbage out of your mouth but it doesnt change the fact that we are under grace and not the law, we are gentiles not Jews, we came to Christ under Grace not the Law, remember this bit,

Mat_5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

good luck on doing that yourself..

Grace does not abolish law. It provides unmerited favor for those who broke any of the Creator's commandments. Once that grace is received, it leads to the believer doing good works, shunning evil, and walking in obedience to the commandments we were pardoned from breaking. For a thief to receive grace and then continue stealing is to trample on that grace.

BTW, my righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees because I am clothed with Yeshua's righteousness.

 

[mjrhealth]

and walking in obedience to the commandments we were pardoned from breaking.

You are not a Jew, so you where not pardoned from breaking the law of Moses, it was never yours in the first place. The Jews / Hebrews where given the Law to teach them, about sin, people keep the law and it reminds them of sin, it is all it does, Jesus told them not to mix the tow, law and grace, it is one or the other.

Mar_2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

which is what you and SDA, do mixture... which also leads to this

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

and we know what the new wine is, dont we.

and than of course

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

you do remember Jesus

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Yet still men add the Law of Moses to Grace by Faith which is how we gentiles came to Christ. the Law was never a condition for our salvation it is added by religious and learned men.

It is

Gal_3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[gadar perets]

You are not a Jew, so you where not pardoned from breaking the law of Moses, it was never yours in the first place. The Jews / Hebrews where given the Law to teach them, about sin, people keep the law and it reminds them of sin, it is all it does,

The law was given to Israel as part of the OC. I do not live under that covenant. However, under the NC, the law is written in my heart. Same commandments, different administration. Are you living under the NC? If so, what function does the law written in your heart have?

All Ten Commandments existed before a Jew existed, yet you won't keep them either.

Jesus told them not to mix the tow, law and grace, it is one or the other.

Mar_2:22 And no man putteth new wine into old bottles: else the new wine doth burst the bottles, and the wine is spilled, and the bottles will be marred: but new wine must be put into new bottles.

which is what you and SDA, do mixture...which also leads to this

Luk_5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

and we know what the new wine is, dont we.

Yeshua, in Mark 2:22, says nothing about law and grace, nor does he mention putting two different wines into the same bottle. The old bottle refers to the old man and the new bottle is the new man. Only new wine is put in new bottles.

Every Christian has a different take on what the new wine is. You erroneously think the new wine is grace and the old wine is law. Yet, under the NC we have law as well. Not only am I a new bottle/wineskin, but I am filled with new wine (either the Holy Spirit, the teaching of Yeshua, the Gospel, etc.).

and than of course

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

you do remember Jesus

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

This says nothing about grace and truth replacing law. In fact, there is this;

Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
​

The truth that came through Yeshua was in addition to the truth that already existed.

Yet still men add the Law of Moses to Grace by Faith which is how we gentiles came to Christ. the Law was never a condition for our salvation it is added by religious and learned men.

I never said one needs to keep the law to be saved. That is your sick, worn out false accusation.

 

[mjrhealth]

I never said one needs to keep the law to be saved. That is your sick, worn out false accusation.

Never said it did, you are the one that keeps adding it to grace, Jesus never did...

All Ten Commandments existed before a Jew existed, yet you won't keep them either.

never did, as it says the Law came by Moses, it is Love that always existed,. that has always being since the beginning of time and even so before the beginning of creation.
Neither do I have to keep them, the Law it is not a requirement for my salvation as you insist so therefore it must only offer you the opportunity to boast, or is it you love the condemnation it brings when you break them as you do , If I have to keep them than would that not make it a requirement???

I do not recall Jesus or any of the disciples demanding we keep Moses law... in fact

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

or is it this bit

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

but as is written

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

and again

Joh_14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

I know where I stand, God has no problems with me, cept maybe that this going on and on... and leading no where, you have the law written in stone I would rather have the love

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

and that is hard enough....

 

[gadar perets]

Never said it did, you are the one that keeps adding it to grace, Jesus never did...

I never said it needs to be added to grace either. "Adding it to grace" implies grace is not good enough for salvation. We are saved "by grace through faith", but faith without works is dead. Our faith produces good works which include obedience to all of YHWH's NC laws written in the heart. This statement of yours is just another one of your many false accusations.

never did, as it says the Law came by Moses, it is Love that always existed,. that has always being since the beginning of time and even so before the beginning of creation.

All you need to do is read the OT to see the existence of the Ten Commandments before they were written down as "Law". Joseph knew adultery was a sin; the Israelites broke the Sabbath before the Law was given; idolatry was a sin; stealing was a sin; murder was a sin; etc. Other commandments existed before the Law was given as well. Blood was forbidden to be eaten; the distinction between clean and unclean animals existed; etc.

Neither do I have to keep them, the Law it is not a requirement for my salvation as you insist so therefore it must only offer you the opportunity to boast, or is it you love the condemnation it brings when you break them as you do , If I have to keep them than would that not make it a requirement???

How many times are you going to falsely accuse me of saying the Law is a requirement for salvation? Open your eyes to how Satan uses you to falsely accuse the brethren.

Act_15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Why not include verse 1 as well?

Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
​

The context of verse 24 is keeping the law for salvation which I have repeatedly said is wrong. Yet you, through your carnality and Satan's leading, keep falsely accusing me of teaching.

or is it this bit

Jas_2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

When we offend, we confess and repent and claim the blood of Yeshua to cleanse us of our sin. The problem is you and many other deceived Christians NEVER repent because you have been deceived into believing there is no more Law to break contrary to "this bit"

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.​

but as is written

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

I also told you that man CANNOT be justified or made righteous by works. Yet, you will bring this up again as another false accusation against me.

I know where I stand, God has no problems with me, cept maybe that this going on and on... and leading no where, you have the law written in stone I would rather have the love

Do you even read my posts??? How many times do I have to say the law is written in our hearts and minds under the NC???

Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

and that is hard enough....

Yes, I see how hard it is for you to love me since you are constantly falsely accusing me.

You can say you love your neighbor all you want, but if you steal from him or commit adultery with his wife or bear false witness against him or covet his house, etc, you show you do NOT love him.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes, I see how hard it is for you to love me since you are constantly falsely accusing me.

Falsely accuse of what.

We are justified by Christ- no more no less, We are saved by the works of Christ that He did- none of ours. The law is the works of men, and every time you break it you sin and since you do not keep it, you sin continually, how many times does HE need to climb back up on that cross for you, or have you missed it all, in that we have already being forgiven the price already paid once and forever, for those in Christ there is no more judgement, if God was to Judge you a second time that would make Him a liar, and Christ a deceiver in that He never did what He said He did.

But you would put your religion and its doctrines before God and Christ, and would rather believe them than the truth.

 

[gadar perets]

Falsely accuse of what.

I suspected you don't read my posts, but now I wonder if you even know what you post.

We are justified by Christ- no more no less, We are saved by the works of Christ that He did- none of ours.

Why are you bringing this up if not because you believe I teach we are justified and saved by works? Both are among the false accusations you have posted in this thread.

The law is the works of men,

The Law is the holy, just, good and true work of YHWH and His will for man (Romans 7:12; Psalms 119:142).

The law is the works of men, and every time you break it you sin and since you do not keep it, you sin continually, how many times does HE need to climb back up on that cross for you, or have you missed it all, in that we have already being forgiven the price already paid once and forever,

Yeshua paid the price for sin once and forever by dying once. He forgave our sins that are past and his shed blood provides forgiveness for our future sins, but we must confess those sins and ask for forgiveness. That is why he taught us to pray, "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors" (Matthew 6:12) and that is why he said, "But if you forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matthew 6:15). How can the Father refuse to forgive our trespasses if they were already forgiven? If someone commits adultery with your wife tomorrow and you refuse to forgive him, your sins from that point forward will not be forgiven. If you do forgive the adulterer, then your sins will continue to be forgiven when you ask.

for those in Christ there is no more judgement, if God was to Judge you a second time that would make Him a liar, and Christ a deceiver in that He never did what He said He did.

If, by "judgment" you mean punishment of death for sin, then I agree. However, Romans 14:10, 1 Corinthians 11:32, 2 Corinthians 5:10 and James 2:12 say believers will be judged in the future as well.

But you would put your religion and its doctrines before God and Christ, and would rather believe them than the truth.

My "religion" consists of the doctrines of YHWH and Yeshua. I will believe them over you.

 

[mjrhealth]

Why are you bringing this up if not because you believe I teach we are justified and saved by works? Both are among the false accusations you have posted in this thread.

Well the law is by works and it is what you insist upon.. it is for sinners and the unrighteous, and it is what you forever add to grace..

My "religion" consists of the doctrines of YHWH and Yeshua. I will believe them over you.

Problem is you believe it over Jesus God and the Holy Spirit, this part

Col_2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Mar_7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

The Law is the holy, just, good and true work of YHWH and His will for man (Romans 7:12; Psalms 119:142).

Have no problem with the Law, it reminds the sinners and unrighteous of sin. it is what it does. Than it sleighs them as it is all it could do,

Gal_2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

if our righteousness is by Christ, the law than does what??

 

[CoreIssue]

This one question. When did the law ever save anyone?

The Bible says it only condemns.

I don't see it anywhere in the OT for anyone was declared righteous because of the law.