Dispensationalism

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marks

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Ephesians 1:8-12 KJV
8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

oikonomia
oy-kon-om-ee'-ah
From G3623; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) “economy”: - dispensation, stewardship.

Luke 16:2 KJV
2) And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV
17) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 3:2 KJV
2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 KJV
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Titus 1:7 KJV
7) For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Dispensation - the "dispensing" of something. A particular dispensing, "the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you".

Ephesians 1:10 KJV
10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Vincent Word Studies:

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation, etc. (εἰς οἰκονομίαν)

The A.V. is faulty and clumsy. Εἱς does not mean in, but unto, with a view to. Dispensation has no article. The clause is directly connected with the preceding: the mystery which He purposed in Himself unto a dispensation. For οἰκονομία dispensation see on Col_1:25. Here and Eph_3:2, of the divine regulation, disposition, economy of things.

Of the fullness of times (τοῦ πληρώματος τῶν καιρῶν)

For fullness, see on Rom_11:12; see on Joh_1:16; see on Col_1:19. For times, compare Gal_4:4, “fullness of the time (τοῦ χρόνου), where the time before Christ is conceived as a unit. Here the conception is of a series of epochs. The fullness of the times is the moment when the successive ages of the gospel dispensation are completed. The meaning of the whole phrase, then, is: a dispensation characterized: by the fullness of the times: set forth when the times are full.


Oikonomia, the "house rule", or management of a household. The idea is the methods and means by which the needs of the occupants of the household are met. It may be this way in this home, but another way in another home, when their needs are different, or when another method to provide for the same needs is employed.

Perhaps the simplest example of the dispensational aspect of history is in the sacrifices.

Under the Law Covenant, daily sacrifices for sin were to be offered for the people of Israel, and such sacrifices would cover their sins.

Under the New Covenant, Jesus' one time sacrifice replaces the daily sacrifice, and sins are not covered, they are sent away, remitted.

God managed His household a certain way, and then changed that way. This is dispensationalism.

Before Jesus died, He taught, no one can come unless the Father draw them. But He also taught, If He be crucified, He would draw all men to Himself. This is another dispensational distinction.

If you agree that the sacrifices offered in the OT are not to be offered after Jesus' sacrifice, you hold to a dispensational point of view.

Much love!
 

Truth7t7

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Ephesians 1:8-12 KJV
8) Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12) That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

oikonomia
oy-kon-om-ee'-ah
From G3623; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) “economy”: - dispensation, stewardship.

Luke 16:2 KJV
2) And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.

1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV
17) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 3:2 KJV
2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 KJV
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

Titus 1:7 KJV
7) For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;

Dispensation - the "dispensing" of something. A particular dispensing, "the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you".

Ephesians 1:10 KJV
10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Vincent Word Studies:

Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation, etc. (εἰς οἰκονομίαν)

The A.V. is faulty and clumsy. Εἱς does not mean in, but unto, with a view to. Dispensation has no article. The clause is directly connected with the preceding: the mystery which He purposed in Himself unto a dispensation. For οἰκονομία dispensation see on Col_1:25. Here and Eph_3:2, of the divine regulation, disposition, economy of things.

Of the fullness of times (τοῦ πληρώματος τῶν καιρῶν)

For fullness, see on Rom_11:12; see on Joh_1:16; see on Col_1:19. For times, compare Gal_4:4, “fullness of the time (τοῦ χρόνου), where the time before Christ is conceived as a unit. Here the conception is of a series of epochs. The fullness of the times is the moment when the successive ages of the gospel dispensation are completed. The meaning of the whole phrase, then, is: a dispensation characterized: by the fullness of the times: set forth when the times are full.


Oikonomia, the "house rule", or management of a household. The idea is the methods and means by which the needs of the occupants of the household are met. It may be this way in this home, but another way in another home, when their needs are different, or when another method to provide for the same needs is employed.

Perhaps the simplest example of the dispensational aspect of history is in the sacrifices.

Under the Law Covenant, daily sacrifices for sin were to be offered for the people of Israel, and such sacrifices would cover their sins.

Under the New Covenant, Jesus' one time sacrifice replaces the daily sacrifice, and sins are not covered, they are sent away, remitted.

God managed His household a certain way, and then changed that way. This is dispensationalism.

Before Jesus died, He taught, no one can come unless the Father draw them. But He also taught, If He be crucified, He would draw all men to Himself. This is another dispensational distinction.

If you agree that the sacrifices offered in the OT are not to be offered after Jesus' sacrifice, you hold to a dispensational point of view.

Much love!
Wikipedia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.
 
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marks

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Wikipedia: John Nelson Darby
Did you read my post? Or did the title trigger you?

Are you more into Darby and Wikipedia than the Bible?

You'll notice my post has nothing to do with your Darby et al.

Much love!
 
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Truth7t7

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You'll notice my post has nothing to do with your Darby et al.

Much love!
Opinion Thread Title "Dispensationalism"

Wikipedia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.
 
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Truth7t7

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OK, so, "triggered". At the expense of anything deeper.

Much love!
You aren't going to distract from the fact "Dispensationalism" surrounds the teachings of John N. Darby and a pre-trib rapture

Just keeping you on track, so all can openly see, Darby is the modern father of "Dispensationalism"
 
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marks

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You aren't going to distract from the fact "Dispensationalism" surrounds the teachings of John N. Darby and a pre-trib rapture

Just keeping you on track, so all can openly see, Darby is the modern father of "Dispensationalism"

I'm looking at the Bible, and the use of the Greek work oikonomia. Deflect onto Darby et al. all you like, but still it remains, the Bible teaches these things, I'm simply repeating them. If you don't like it, your complaint is not against me, but God, and His Word that speaks so.

Paul wrote these things, and the Gospel writers - NOT Darby.

Maybe you are so distracted by your Darbyism that you are unable to see this.

Try to hold your thoughts as you give a more careful reading to my OP.

Otherwise you are no different then someone who has their hands over their ears singing La la la la la la so they can't hear anything else.

Dispensations are plainly stated in the Bible. Perhaps if you were to engage with that fact, and seek understanding, you may gain for it.

Much love!
 
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Truth7t7

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Perhaps you didn't notice in your triggered state that I'm looking at the Bible, and the use of the Greek work oikonomia. Deflect onto Darby et al. all you like, but still it remains, the Bible teaches these things, I'm simply repeating them. If you don't like it, your complaint is not against me, but God, and His Word that speaks so.

Maybe you are so distracted by your Darbyism that you are unable to see this.

Try to hold your thoughts as you give a more careful reading to my OP.

Otherwise you are no different then someone who has their hands over their ears singing La la la la la la so they can't hear anything else.

Dispensations are plainly stated in the Bible. Perhaps if you were to engage with that fact, and seek understanding, you may gain for it.

Much love!
Nobody argues the word "Dispensation" is in the Bible, however "Dispensationalism" that is your thread title is a completely different subject, that covers "Many Teachings And Doctrines" of John N. Darby
 
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marks

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Nobody argues the word "Dispensation" is in the Bible, however "Dispensationalism" that is your thread title is a completely different subject, that covers "Many Teachings And Doctrines" of John N. Darby
In a word,
No.

Again . . . I'm not interested in your Darbyism. I'm looking at the Bible. I'm not sure why you don't seem to be able to separate the two.

If you are able to come to separate the dispensations in the Bible from whatever other commentaries and such you are using, I think that will be a benefit.

Much love!
 

marks

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Ephesians 3:2 KJV
2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
This is a good example of the use of this word, oikonomia.

The dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you. God gave Paul the mission of sharing - dispensing - God's grace to others.

Much love!
 
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Truth7t7

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In a word,
No.

Again . . . I'm not interested in your Darbyism. I'm looking at the Bible. I'm not sure why you don't seem to be able to separate the two.

If you are able to come to separate the dispensations in the Bible from whatever other commentaries and such you are using, I think that will be a benefit.

Much love!
"Dispensationalism" = John N. Darby

"Dispensation" = Bible
 

marks

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"Dispensationalism" = John N. Darby

"Dispensation" = Bible

I think you are missing the point of this thread.

There are many ways you can think of "dispensationalism", and there are a myriad of different ideas of dispensations.

There is a Biblical use of dispensations, and to recognize that is to have a "dispensational" POV.

If you recognize that the OT sacrifices are ended with Jesus' one time sacrifice, that is a dispensational POV.

There is "baby", and there is "bath water". I challenge you to not toss the baby with the bath water.

Much love!
 

marks

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1 Corinthians 9:17 KJV
17) For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 3:2 KJV
2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 KJV
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

There are three places that Paul tells us a certain dispensation was given him by God. A Dispensation of the Gospel, the dispensation of grace, the dispensation of God.

The house manager dispenses food. Paul dispensed the Gospel, and God's grace, sharing with them God Himself.

Matthew 24:45-51 KJV
45) Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46) Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47) Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48) But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49) And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50) The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51) And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Much love!
 
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Desire Of All Nations

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It seems like you're trying to argue that a person has to believe in dispensationalism if they believe that animal sacrifices are no longer necessary, and it's an extremely poor argument to make. I believe in what Hebrews teaches about the Law being applied differently under the New Covenant, which doesn't require any thinking person to conclude that dispensationalism is biblical.

The thing that really tops off how inaccurate this argument is lies in your belief that God only drew certain people before Jesus died, but then He suddenly changed His mind after Jesus died and left the door wide open for everybody to come to Him on their own volition. Rom. 8:28 is one of many passages where Paul teaches that God is just as selective about who He wants to reveal Himself to under the current covenant as He was under the former covenant:

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."

Notice that it doesn't say "to those who believe in God/Jesus." It specifically says "to those who are the called", which clearly means Jesus' statement in Jhn 6:44, 65 wasn't a dispensationalist statement by a long shot. Nobody in this world can possibly know the real God unless He initiates the process of revealing Himself to them.

Evangelicals' efforts to cajole people are a waste of time and energy because they operate under the dispensationalist delusion that God swung the door to salvation wide open in this age for everybody to come to Him of their own volition.

As Rom. 8:29 shows, God has a purpose and a plan, and that purpose and plan involves Him being able to choose who He wants to reveal Himself to and when.
 

marks

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It seems like you're trying to argue that a person has to believe in dispensationalism if they believe that animal sacrifices are no longer necessary, and it's an extremely poor argument to make.
What I'm hoping to point out is that some people seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to the word, but that's not a good response, because the Bible does in fact teach dispensations.

Now, I've seen many of the dispensationalist charts, 7 dispensations, each named, 10, 11 dispensations, Major and minor dispensations, what I'm wanting to show here is that dispensations are a valid study in the Bible, and accurately describe what God has done, and is doing in human history.

Outright rejecting all notions of dispensations because you don't like Darby or Hal Lindey or whatever is a mistake. Let's not make that mistake.

Let's stop defining dispensations and dispensationalism according to this writer or that writer, but let's look at it from the Bible writers.

I was prompted to start this thread because just mentioning the word on another thread resulted in a total shutdown of discussion, and that's not good, not proper, not right. At least to me. If someone doesn't want to talk about it, that's fine. But it's inappropriate to just slam the door on Biblical teaching because someone is afraid of Darby.

I think it's useful to learn about these things from the Bible. Even if you think there is some "end game" of sneaking in Darby. Whom I've never read, for what it's worth.

Much love!
 
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marks

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The thing that really tops off how inaccurate this argument is lies in your belief that God only drew certain people before Jesus died, but then He suddenly changed His mind after Jesus died and left the door wide open for everybody to come to Him on their own volition.
My belief is in the Word of God. I'm not making something up here.

John 6:44 KJV
44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 KJV
32) And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Do you see the change? Before the cross, only the Father would draw people to Jesus. After the cross, Jesus would draw all men to Himself.

Much love!
 
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Enoch111

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Wikipedia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren, and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.
Wikipedia is not necessarily a reliable source of information. Are you aware that there is a book titled Dispensationalism Before Darby: Seventeenth-Century And Eighteenth-Century English Apocalypticism by William C. Watson published in 2015?

Here is what he says right at the start: "It is often claimed that dispensationalism and Christian Zionism are of recent origin and that the ideas were developed in the Victorian era.1 I have trouble accepting this claim, because though not labeled as such, I have continually encountered these ideas during decades of research on seventeenth- and eighteenth-century English clergy..."

So J. N. Darby is NOT the "father" of Dispensationalism. But even if we assume that this is true, it does not invalidate the fact that the Bible (1) presents several covenants, (2) those covenants generally correspond to "dispensations" in which God deals with humanity in different ways, and (3) Dispensationalism is the best method of interpreting the Bible in its plain literal sense.

Why is there so much animosity against Dispensationalism? Because (1) it exposes the falsity of Amillennialism (2) it exposes the falsity of Replacement Theology, and (3) it clearly presents a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

So instead of admitting that those are false doctrines corrected by Dispensationalism, their adherents attack Dispensationalism by bad-mouthing Darby, Scofield, Walvoord, Ryrie, etc. all of whom have written extensively about this way of Bible interpretation, and have shown from Scripture that there are at least seven dispensations.
 
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Truth7t7

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What I'm hoping to point out is that some people seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to the word, but that's not a good response, because the Bible does in fact teach dispensations.

Now, I've seen many of the dispensationalist charts, 7 dispensations, each named, 10, 11 dispensations, Major and minor dispensations, what I'm wanting to show here is that dispensations are a valid study in the Bible, and accurately describe what God has done, and is doing in human history.

Outright rejecting all notions of dispensations because you don't like Darby or Hal Lindey or whatever is a mistake. Let's not make that mistake.

Let's stop defining dispensations and dispensationalism according to this writer or that writer, but let's look at it from the Bible writers.

I was prompted to start this thread because just mentioning the word on another thread resulted in a total shutdown of discussion, and that's not good, not proper, not right. At least to me. If someone doesn't want to talk about it, that's fine. But it's inappropriate to just slam the door on Biblical teaching because someone is afraid of Darby.

I think it's useful to learn about these things from the Bible. Even if you think there is some "end game" of sneaking in Darby. Whom I've never read, for what it's worth.

Much love!
Your thread title is "Dispensationalism" not "Dispensations"

Once Again

"Dispensationalism" = John N. Darby

"Dispensation" = Bible
 
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Truth7t7

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Wikipedia is not necessarily a reliable source of information. Are you aware that there is a book titled Dispensationalism Before Darby: Seventeenth-Century And Eighteenth-Century English Apocalypticism by William C. Watson published in 2015?

Here is what he says right at the start: "It is often claimed that dispensationalism and Christian Zionism are of recent origin and that the ideas were developed in the Victorian era.1 I have trouble accepting this claim, because though not labeled as such, I have continually encountered these ideas during decades of research on seventeenth- and eighteenth-century English clergy..."

So J. N. Darby is NOT the "father" of Dispensationalism. But even if we assume that this is true, it does not invalidate the fact that the Bible (1) presents several covenants, (2) those covenants generally correspond to "dispensations" in which God deals with humanity in different ways, and (3) Dispensationalism is the best method of interpreting the Bible in its plain literal sense.

Why is there so much animosity against Dispensationalism? Because (1) it exposes the falsity of Amillennialism (2) it exposes the falsity of Replacement Theology, and (3) it clearly presents a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture.

So instead of admitting that those are false doctrines corrected by Dispensationalism, their adherents attack Dispensationalism by bad-mouthing Darby, Scofield, Walvoord, Ryrie, etc. all of whom have written extensively about this way of Bible interpretation, and have shown from Scripture that there are at least seven dispensations.
Darby is the "Modern Father" of Dispensationalism

Adulterer C.I. Scofield and his 1909 reference Bible was the greatest world influence, in promoting Darby's teachings in the margins, with millions of copies sold

Darby's teaching of a pre-trib rapture is found no place in scripture, the teaching uses the second coming and last day resurrection seen in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and they claim this represents a pre-trib rapture "Wrong"

It's the Ole shell game of smoke and mirrors, those that promote this teaching have nobody fooled but themselves
 
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marks

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Your thread title is "Dispensationalism" not "Dispensations"

Once Again

"Dispensationalism" = John N. Darby

"Dispensation" = Bible

Can you truly not see the point I'm making? Don't shut your mind to dispensations in the Bible because you eschew Darby.

Dispensationalism is NOT about Darby. Or Larkin. Or any others. It's from the Bible.

It seems you are unable to acknowledge the Biblical dispensations because you have this thing with Darby.

And if I can't split you from that, so be it.

Much love!