Division

[Raccoon1010]

Only if they are right with God and His Word.

Universalism is not something that God has anything to do with at all.

I don't believe this is correct. You focus on being right with God. But Jesus taught the parable of the Tax Collector and Pharisee which goes against your teaching here.

We are all sinners and no one is truly 'right' with God. This is the lesson of the parable. We need to acknowledge that fact and admit it to God, that we are sinners.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I don't believe this is correct. You focus on being right with God. But Jesus taught the parable of the Tax Collector and Pharisee which goes against your teaching here.

We are all sinners and no one is truly 'right' with God. This is the lesson of the parable. We need to acknowledge that fact and admit it to God, that we are sinners.

That's not at all what @GEN2REV was saying. Every one of us have faults, and that's not the point here. The point is that we take the entire Word of God and believe what it says, and that Jesus is who He says He is. Otherwise, there's no agreement. Universalism says we all need to just come together and love each other. Well, love is good, but we can't walk together unless we agree. I refuse to compromise on the truth of the Gospel. Period.

 

[Raccoon1010]

That's not at all what @GEN2REV was saying. Every one of us have faults, and that's not the point here. The point is that we take the entire Word of God and believe what it says, and that Jesus is who He says He is. Otherwise, there's no agreement. Universalism says we all need to just come together and love each other. Well, love is good, but we can't walk together unless we agree. I refuse to compromise on the truth of the Gospel. Period.

Yes I apparently mis-read that, I apologize to @GEN2REV. Although I think he was implying it.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15.

What causes division in the church. Why so many beliefs and denominations and schisms, in the world! This is the scripture that can give you the answer. Not rightly dividing the word of truth!

Have you ever had a feeling for that. To understand why!

Amen! This is Exactly What God Led me to, after several years of proudly
being in a traditional denomination, where I thought I had "found it," and
why can't ALL the other divided denominations "SEE what I saw," and, thus
we could ALL "be united"? God Then Spanked me Very Severely, so now,
hopefully, I am more humble, simply sharing Right Division with other seekers.

So, respectfully submitted, these are my studies, for prayerful/Careful review:
i.e. Examples of Right Division:

God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels!
+
"Distinctions" Of prophecy vs MYSTERY!

With these, I may be starting to understand why.
And, still praying for unity. Amen.

GRACE And Peace...

 

[GEN2REV]

I'm quite surprised that you found it hard to make sense of my post. As I said: "for those who have the Spirit of God within them, whichever group they belong to, there is unity of the Spirit; a recognition of each other as brethren."

This is what keeps throwing me. I think I understand what you're trying to say, but "whichever group they belong to" is just confusing to me.

I think you mean no matter which denomination, etc., but the thing is ... if you're talking about a Bible-believing Christian and a Catholic, who for sure have the Holy Spirit, then the point I made was that it only comes down to whether or not they are right with God and the Bible or not.

So, in the instance I proposed - with a Catholic and a Bible-believing Christian, "whichever group they belong to" does not make sense. Because Catholics do not go by the Bible, they go by their traditions.

That's why I clarified.

This isn't the only example that exists to make my point, it's just the first one that came to mind.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe some strange things about Jesus. That's fine, but if their belief does not line up with Scripture, then "whichever group they belong to" doesn't work.

I hope that's more clear. If not, oh well. It's not worth continuing to elaborate upon.

 

[GEN2REV]

I don't believe this is correct. You focus on being right with God. But Jesus taught the parable of the Tax Collector and Pharisee which goes against your teaching here.

We are all sinners and no one is truly 'right' with God. This is the lesson of the parable. We need to acknowledge that fact and admit it to God, that we are sinners.

No.

All wrong.

Not even close.

 

[GEN2REV]

That's not at all what @GEN2REV was saying. Every one of us have faults, and that's not the point here. The point is that we take the entire Word of God and believe what it says, and that Jesus is who He says He is. Otherwise, there's no agreement. Universalism says we all need to just come together and love each other. Well, love is good, but we can't walk together unless we agree. I refuse to compromise on the truth of the Gospel. Period.

It's ok, they're trying to sneak in acceptance of Universal Christianity/Religion.

Nothing new.

Those who actually do have the Holy Spirit cannot appeal to that nonsense. The Spirit won't let them because it's not at all ok in God's mind.

Universalism tries to claim that all religions are right in their own way and that there's many ways to God and all good/decent people go to heaven and all that jazz.

 

[Raccoon1010]

It's ok, they're trying to sneak in acceptance of Universal Christianity/Religion.

Nothing new.

Those who actually do have the Holy Spirit cannot appeal to that nonsense. The Spirit won't let them because it's not at all ok in God's mind.

Universalism tries to claim that all religions are right in their own way and that there's many ways to God and all good/decent people go to heaven and all that jazz.

I think this is weak ground to stand on. That a child says who has the Holy Spirit. Children do not have that power of discernment.

 

[Pearl]

This is what keeps throwing me. I think I understand what you're trying to say, but "whichever group they belong to" is just confusing to me.

Whichever group they belong to means whichever denomination they belong to.

I think you mean no matter which denomination, etc., but the thing is ... if you're talking about a Bible-believing Christian and a Catholic, who for sure have the Holy Spirit, then the point I made was that it only comes down to whether or not they are right with God and the Bible or not.

I am talking about all born again followers of Jesus whatever church or none they belong to. Even Catholics who follow the true gospels and have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

And if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them then they ARE right with God.

So, in the instance I proposed - with a Catholic and a Bible-believing Christian, "whichever group they belong to" does not make sense. Because Catholics do not go by the Bible, they go by their traditions.

That's why I clarified.

Not all Catholics are like the ones we meet on here like theefaith and his friends; I have known Catholics who are truly Christian.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe some strange things about Jesus. That's fine, but if their belief does not line up with Scripture, then "whichever group they belong to" doesn't work.

I hope that's more clear. If not, oh well. It's not worth continuing to elaborate upon.

Jehovah’s Witnesses in the main I would agree are ‘not right with God’ but surely there must be one or two among their number who though receiving the wrong teaching have hearts which are right with Him. We can’t generalise everything because God looks at the heart.


There you are, I hope you can now understand my simple message that all you have the Spirit of God are brethren (sisters and brothers in Christ) and so have a certain unity – that of belonging to Jesus.

 

[GEN2REV]

Whichever group they belong to means whichever denomination they belong to.



I am talking about all born again followers of Jesus whatever church or none they belong to. Even Catholics who follow the true gospels and have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

And if they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them then they ARE right with God.


Not all Catholics are like the ones we meet on here like theefaith and his friends; I have known Catholics who are truly Christian.



Jehovah’s Witnesses in the main I would agree are ‘not right with God’ but surely there must be one or two among their number who though receiving the wrong teaching have hearts which are right with Him. We can’t generalise everything because God looks at the heart.


There you are, I hope you can now understand my simple message that all you have the Spirit of God are brethren (sisters and brothers in Christ) and so have a certain unity – that of belonging to Jesus.

Thanks for clearing that up.

The vast majority of Christians are going to Hell.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Not all Catholics are like the ones we meet on here like theefaith and his friends; I have known Catholics who are truly Christian.

I have met one person who identified as Catholic but didn't have "Mary" shrines in her house, nor did she pray to dead saints. She was my midwife with 4 of my babies. She stood on scripture. I just don't know why someone would still identify as catholic if they don't adhere to catholic doctrines.

 

[Pearl]

Thanks for clearing that up.

The vast majority of Christians are going to Hell.

No I think you are wrong, but perhaps many of those who CALL themselves Christians may. There is a mighty big difference. it does not depend on what we may call ourselves but on how God sees us and he knows the cheep from the goats and the wheat from the tares. Even if some people find it difficult to distinguish.

 

[ScottA]

I don’t think this is a problem that needs solved by man. God knows His Truth and will teach all whom ask Him. We man should love each other despite disagreements.

Right!

And I would go one further to say that it is even intended, that this is that sword that Jesus has put in place for these times.

A body is made up of different parts and seeing knee to eye is foolishness. There is also purpose in the delay it all causes, that the times should be fulfilled to the last generation.

 

[Pearl]

I have met one person who identified as Catholic but didn't have "Mary" shrines in her house, nor did she pray to dead saints. She was my midwife with 4 of my babies. She stood on scripture. I just don't know why someone would still identify as catholic if they don't adhere to catholic doctrines.

Me neither but it must be due to misplaced allegiance or inbuilt fear of punishment.

 

[ShineTheLight]

Where do we draw a line?

Much love!

In the scripture of that chapter, it says what not to judge a brother or sister on, and what you should judge on. If it's a heaven or hell issue, that's when you have to contend. If it's something that causes someone to go astray or they fail, that's when it's better to be concerned.

A couple examples of things people argue with each other about are the pre-tribulation rapture and the flat earth vs round earth debate. People will be persuaded in their own minds about certain things like the scripture in Romans 14 says.

Sometimes it can get hard. We can argue about something all day, but we're gonna have to proceed and go forward in love in the midst of the differences of opinion.

 

[marks]

In the scripture of that chapter, it says what not to judge a brother or sister on, and what you should judge on. If it's a heaven or hell issue, that's when you have to contend. If it's something that causes someone to go astray or they fail, that's when it's better to be concerned.

A couple examples of things people argue with each other about are the pre-tribulation rapture and the flat earth vs round earth debate. People will be persuaded in their own minds about certain things like the scripture in Romans 14 says.

Sometimes it can get hard. We can argue about something all day, but we're gonna have to proceed and go forward in love in the midst of the differences of opinion.

I like your answer!

I've heard the view, "err on the side of grace", I like that too.

I think that as we remember the Holy Spirit is actually Who is going to change someone, and bring them into truth, we can offer what we understand to be true as a gift, and look for God to work out the increase.

I like the way the ESV puts this, "Not for a decision of scruples". One line in the sand I've come to see is, When we start nit-picking over words. We've lost the focus by then.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15.

What causes division in the church. Why so many beliefs and denominations and schisms, in the world! This is the scripture that can give you the answer. Not rightly dividing the word of truth!

Have you ever had a feeling for that. To understand why!

Division is inevitable. Darkness will always move to quench light but try as it may it will not overcome it.
How is that one might ask? ....because light has in itself everything superior to darkness.

 

[GEN2REV]

No I think you are wrong, but perhaps many of those who CALL themselves Christians may. There is a mighty big difference. it does not depend on what we may call ourselves but on how God sees us and he knows the cheep from the goats and the wheat from the tares. Even if some people find it difficult to distinguish.

I don't disagree with you entirely, but you are continuing to try and make the case appear to be different than it actually is in reality.

I know what I consider a True, bona fide, Christian, but in this discussion, that is not what I'm referring to. When I say Christian in this instance, I am talking about all the people who fill the churches today, all the people who fill the Christian Chat Rooms, all the people who buy Christian shirts, hats, bumper stickers and regalia, all the people who have Christian Facebook pages and Youtube channels as proud Christians, etc. There are a whole lotta Christians of that kind in the world; people who believe they are saved, who are proud of their faith and openly religious, etc.

What you are trying to say is that True Christians make up a majority of Christendom and all the others will be lost.

What I am saying is that True Christians are few and far between ... and it's alllll those others who will be lost.

And guess what. Jesus, and the Bible, make the same case that I am making.

You think you need to comfort Christians, and reassure them, that they are not bad.

God doesn't want them to be comforted and reassured, He wants them in fear of Hell-fire. He wants them to know this is serious business. He wants them to revere Him as THE most important thing in their life, and to fear what may come of them if they fall into His hands in Judgment.

He wants them to know that His Word is all that matters - and knowing it intimately is literally a life and death matter.

That's the difference between your message and mine.

 

[Nancy]

Thinking of the verse speaking of the wheat and the tares having to grow together until the harvest, there will ALWAYS be heretical "Christians" among us...even in a fully bible teaching Church. There is no way around it unless we throw the baby out with the bathwater. Many on here do not attend local church's for various reasons. for me, I CRAVE true fellowship with others who Love the Lord and follow Him, obey Him.
Doesn't matter IMHO as, there is no perfect church...and what ever happened to not "forsaking the gathering of the brethren"?
Continuing to pray for a good Church...might have to travel a bit as, I am surrounded by CC, Reformed (Calvinism) and others that simply ignore MANY of His commands and precepts.
Sure is better than sitting in a house with no real friends to be with, do things with, pray, praise, study and just have a blessed time together on a regular basis.
I would LOVE to have brothers and sisters over to my yard for a cook out and play Christian music for all the hood to hear, :) Better than listening to the BOOM, BOOM of car speakers spewing filth.
Has not happened as, cannot seem to find REAL Christians. Lonely walk, for sure. I know they are out there!
Some of us DO NEED to be around those from a local body. If we have discernment and be a Berean, we will be fine. God said "It is not good for man to be alone" and, I think there is more than one meaning there, not just for marriage.
JMHO

 

[David H.]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. - 2 Timothy 2:15.

What causes division in the church. Why so many beliefs and denominations and schisms, in the world! This is the scripture that can give you the answer. Not rightly dividing the word of truth!

Have you ever had a feeling for that. To understand why!

The source of division in the church is the carnal mind of man and the pride in man's own understanding. Wisdom that is from God is revelatory and does not come from the mind of man. The Wisdom of God unites. Proverbs 3:5-7 is what we should all come to understand first and foremost. our Own understanding is frail and weak compared to the Wisdom of God.

The moment you think you have God all figured out is the moment you fall into relying on your own understanding and the hubris of the mind.

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (Ephesians 3:8-10)