Divorce and Remarriage

[Dave L]

Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of people’s hearts. But God did not approve of this Matthew 19:4–8. Malachi says God hates divorce Malachi 2:15.

Since Moses allowed divorce under the Old Covenant, and Jesus abolished the Old Covenant on the cross, is divorce valid today?

By replacing the Old Covenant with the New, it would mean, Matthew 19:9 and the “except clause” is an idle discussion. It centered on the Old Covenant divorce Moses tolerated. And it no longer applies especially for believers who must forgive.

Replaced by the New Covenant, it would mean any divorce today issued by any court of law is invalid in God’s sight. And people are as married leaving the court as they were in coming.

But again, the main concern would be that those seeking divorce are unforgiving. Which is a damnable sin. We must forgive to receive forgiveness.

With spousal abuse, it seems separation would be necessary until the abuse stopped. The early church fled abuse, but held a forgiving attitude towards all. But forgiveness would leave the door open for reunion.

Thanks for considering this and sharing your views on any or all points.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of people’s hearts. But God did not approve of this Matthew 19:4–8. Malachi says God hates divorce Malachi 2:15.

Since Moses allowed divorce under the Old Covenant, and Jesus abolished the Old Covenant on the cross, is divorce valid today?

By replacing the Old Covenant with the New, it would mean, Matthew 19:9 and the “except clause” is an idle discussion. It centered on the Old Covenant divorce Moses tolerated. And it no longer applies especially for believers who must forgive.

Replaced by the New Covenant, it would mean any divorce today issued by any court of law is invalid in God’s sight. And people are as married leaving the court as they were in coming.

But again, the main concern would be that those seeking divorce are unforgiving. Which is a damnable sin. We must forgive to receive forgiveness.

With spousal abuse, it seems separation would be necessary until the abuse stopped. The early church fled abuse, but held a forgiving attitude towards all. But forgiveness would leave the door open for reunion.

Thanks for considering this and sharing your views on any or all points.

The exception given is fornication though - so I take that to mean infidelity.

 

[Dave L]

The exception given is fornication though - so I take that to mean infidelity.

This was under Mosaic Law. But makes sense for believers to separate and remain single for health reasons.

 

[Butterfly]

Jesus said Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of people’s hearts. But God did not approve of this Matthew 19:4–8. Malachi says God hates divorce Malachi 2:15.

Since Moses allowed divorce under the Old Covenant, and Jesus abolished the Old Covenant on the cross, is divorce valid today?

By replacing the Old Covenant with the New, it would mean, Matthew 19:9 and the “except clause” is an idle discussion. It centered on the Old Covenant divorce Moses tolerated. And it no longer applies especially for believers who must forgive.

Replaced by the New Covenant, it would mean any divorce today issued by any court of law is invalid in God’s sight. And people are as married leaving the court as they were in coming.

But again, the main concern would be that those seeking divorce are unforgiving. Which is a damnable sin. We must forgive to receive forgiveness.

With spousal abuse, it seems separation would be necessary until the abuse stopped. The early church fled abuse, but held a forgiving attitude towards all. But forgiveness would leave the door open for reunion.

Thanks for considering this and sharing your views on any or all points.

I have completely forgiven my ex, do you honestly believe that anyone who goes through a divorce doesn't have a lot of soul searching to do. Do you honestly believe that a marriage ends without deep grief and sadness. I am not going to get into a deep discussion with you but I would be very careful who you pronounce damnation on - you are conveying something as being an unforgivable sin.
Thank goodness God is my judge and not you, or anyone else that shares that view.
Rita

 

[Dave L]

I have completely forgiven my ex, do you honestly believe that anyone who goes through a divorce doesn't have a lot of soul searching to do. Do you honestly believe that a marriage ends without deep grief and sadness. I am not going to get into a deep discussion with you but I would be very careful who you pronounce damnation on - you are conveying something as being an unforgivable sin.
Thank goodness God is my judge and not you, or anyone else that shares that view.
Rita

I'm speaking God's word. And marriage lasts until death.

 

[Helen]

I'm speaking God's word. And marriage lasts until death.

So Dave. Are you a believer in OSAS I can't remember?

If "Gods law " is that marriage lasts until death...then every single Christian when backslidden or whatever is still heaven bound?
After all. " Marriage is until death"
God calls Himself Husband in the word. He talks about Israel's 'adultery' in the word.


FYI I do not agree with you on this subject. It is harsh and legalistic.
How can we just judge any given situation without knowing all the inner details of the reasons why.

You are a 'blanket statement' man.

I hope you own walk is perfect...it better be.
Ever looked at a young girl and lusted .
Are you really honestly forgiving to everyone..
You never ever blur the lines...

 

[Enoch111]

By replacing the Old Covenant with the New, it would mean, Matthew 19:9 and the “except clause” is an idle discussion.

That is just nonsensical. Jesus did provide one exception for divorce, and that is still applicable.

 

[Enoch111]

This was under Mosaic Law.

Jesus already addressed the Mosaic Law when He made the exception. Now you are just trying to sow seeds of spiritual confusion.

MOSAIC LAW
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

CHRIST'S RULING
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

When Jesus said at any time "But I say unto you" that was God's authoritative ruling through Christ (who is God). This would apply to the Jews who heard Him, as well as all Christians subsequently.

 

[Butterfly]

I have completely forgiven my ex, do you honestly believe that anyone who goes through a divorce doesn't have a lot of soul searching to do. Do you honestly believe that a marriage ends without deep grief and sadness. I am not going to get into a deep discussion with you but I would be very careful who you pronounce damnation on - you are conveying something as being an unforgivable sin.
Thank goodness God is my judge and not you, or anyone else that shares that view.
Rita

You did not address the issue of unforgivable sin. So can I take it that you believe anyone who is divorced is condemned - is that what you are saying?
Or are you saying that divorce proves a person is unforgiving , but can reach a point of forgiving afterwards?
Just need to know exactly what you are saying
Rita

 

[Dave L]

Jesus already addressed the Mosaic Law when He made the exception. Now you are just trying to sow seeds of spiritual confusion.

MOSAIC LAW
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

CHRIST'S RULING
And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

When Jesus said at any time "But I say unto you" that was God's authoritative ruling through Christ (who is God). This would apply to the Jews who heard Him, as well as all Christians subsequently.

This was old covenant doctrine. Now replaced by the New Covenant which makes no provision for divorce.

 

[Dave L]

That is just nonsensical. Jesus did provide one exception for divorce, and that is still applicable.

This was old covenant provision not imported into the New Covenant.

 

[Dave L]

So Dave. Are you a believer in OSAS I can't remember?

If "Gods law " is that marriage lasts until death...then every single Christian when backslidden or whatever is still heaven bound?
After all. " Marriage is until death"
God calls Himself Husband in the word. He talks about Israel's 'adultery' in the word.


FYI I do not agree with you on this subject. It is harsh and legalistic.
How can we just judge any given situation without knowing all the inner details of the reasons why.

You are a 'blanket statement' man.

I hope you own walk is perfect...it better be.
Ever looked at a young girl and lusted .
Are you really honestly forgiving to everyone..
You never ever blur the lines...

I believe OSAS = those who are actually saved will live holy lives and not remain in adulterous lifestyles.

 

[Soverign Grace]

This was under Mosaic Law. But makes sense for believers to separate and remain single for health reasons.

That's interesting; I never looked at it in depth. I assumed that since it was in the Bible then a spouse could safely divorce if there was fornication. I'm really puzzled as to what's going on today. The spouses who were cheated on were exceptionally good-looking, moral individuals who brought a lot to the table. The individuals that the cheater cheated with were very unattractive, yet the cheaters got with them. One was a best friend of my relative. (So much for trusting your bestie; my spirit was working however and I forewarned a relative about that person) I really never understood it. Was it forbidden fruit? Either way, I don't blame them for divorcing. I don't think I could live with someone who I couldn't trust. Infidelity strikes at the core of a marital union. Not only that you are opening your spouse up to disease.

One of the worst stories I've heard was my neighbors granddaughter. Her husband and best friend took off together. The husband divorced her. She was so emotionally overwrought at such deep betrayal of having two close people stab her in the back that she wound up in a mental facility for a short time. The evil husband and bestie used that against her and filed for custody of the son. So the woman lost her husband, best friend, and child.

I don't know the definitive answer on this. I don't feel conviction about the divorces, but I see more and more how much believers disagree.

 

[Butterfly]

Do you know this whole subject brings up many questions

Like ' is divorce back in scripture the same as divorce in modern times- I mean wasn't marriage defined by two people coming together. So how exactly was divorce defined in biblical times- was it by no longer ' coming together ', in other words we define it by the piece of paper in a court of law- Not by the coming together.
Or, what if the people are married outside of a church
Or , what if they are not believers

Also, if divorce is about unforgivenss, what happens if the person forgives after the divorce, they are still divorced- so what solution is offered within the context of the OP- this is why I asked if it was considered an unforgivable sin, in so much as you cannot exactly ' undo ' the divorce - unless you did remarry.
Also what about couples who have had previous sexual relationships, come to faith, marry before God, is that classed as re- marriage in Gods eyes ?
Or the many couples who sit in church, proclaiming ' holiness and a good marriage ' while behind closed doors no longer come together - so publically they give one impression while privately , before God conveying something completely different !
I am honestly not trying to get at anyone, I am honestly just pondering these things- and I honestly would like your answer to the unforgivable sin, if only to know where I stand with you DaveL - if you believe it of me, then own it with me
Rita

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Helen has some of the Spirit of the word there.

Its like when Paul said, you don't suppose God was really talking about oxen there, do you?

Its hard to not default back to the letter. But its the spirit that avails a man.

So, was God really talking about marriage between a man and woman? There will be no marrying in heaven. Marriage between a man and woman will be done away with, but His word and His law will not be done away with. His law is spiritual and good.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I hate to see believers at each others throats - maybe we should drop this discussion and just agree that we see things differently. Please remember that Dave did not go around espousing his views for everyone to see - I asked him. As Farouk said: we're each entitled to our own views.

Maybe someone can offer an explanation for something that is nagging me: how can believers who each likely have the Holy Spirit of Truth, disagree so vehemently? We're told in Scripture that "the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth..." So why do seeming believers interpret Scripture so differently? I saw this with my sister and I - she believed in Preterism and I did not. I know her - she was an ardent bible student. I wondered if it was "doctrines of demons" or even if I was the one uninformed and do not yet know it. If she was, then why didn't the Holy Spirit show her?

Does anyone else get puzzled over this?

 

[Soverign Grace]

Do you know this whole subject brings up many questions

Like ' is divorce back in scripture the same as divorce in modern times- I mean wasn't marriage defined by two people coming together. So how exactly was divorce defined in biblical times- was it by no longer ' coming together ', in other words we define it by the piece of paper in a court of law- Not by the coming together.
Or, what if the people are married outside of a church
Or , what if they are not believers

Also, if divorce is about unforgivenss, what happens if the person forgives after the divorce, they are still divorced- so what solution is offered within the context of the OP- this is why I asked if it was considered an unforgivable sin, in so much as you cannot exactly ' undo ' the divorce - unless you did remarry.
Also what about couples who have had previous sexual relationships, come to faith, marry before God, is that classed as re- marriage in Gods eyes ?
Or the many couples who sit in church, proclaiming ' holiness and a good marriage ' while behind closed doors no longer come together - so publically they give one impression while privately , before God conveying something completely different !
I am honestly not trying to get at anyone, I am honestly just pondering these things- and I honestly would like your answer to the unforgivable sin, if only to know where I stand with you DaveL - if you believe it of me, then own it with me
Rita

Yes I'm seeing that. It seems to be a hot-button issue because people feel strongly about it. I never studied this topic in-depth and am unqualified to really speak on it. I have seen pastors teach what I thought to be wrong, so no one has a corner on God. We each interpret Scripture differently, something that is puzzling if we all have the Holy Spirit. It may be another mystery that I have to put on a shelf until God chooses to show me.

 

[Dave L]

Do you know this whole subject brings up many questions

Like ' is divorce back in scripture the same as divorce in modern times- I mean wasn't marriage defined by two people coming together. So how exactly was divorce defined in biblical times- was it by no longer ' coming together ', in other words we define it by the piece of paper in a court of law- Not by the coming together.
Or, what if the people are married outside of a church
Or , what if they are not believers

Also, if divorce is about unforgivenss, what happens if the person forgives after the divorce, they are still divorced- so what solution is offered within the context of the OP- this is why I asked if it was considered an unforgivable sin, in so much as you cannot exactly ' undo ' the divorce - unless you did remarry.
Also what about couples who have had previous sexual relationships, come to faith, marry before God, is that classed as re- marriage in Gods eyes ?
Or the many couples who sit in church, proclaiming ' holiness and a good marriage ' while behind closed doors no longer come together - so publically they give one impression while privately , before God conveying something completely different !
I am honestly not trying to get at anyone, I am honestly just pondering these things- and I honestly would like your answer to the unforgivable sin, if only to know where I stand with you DaveL - if you believe it of me, then own it with me
Rita

Marriage has always been a public announcement of commitment between a man and woman for life. Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding/marriage. Sexual relationships do not constitute a marriage. Jesus told the promiscuous woman at the well with 5 husbands, her present boyfriend was not her husband.

In the OT Moses allowed divorce and remarriage on grounds of adultery because the State executed adulterers. In Matthew 19:9 Jesus assumes this in the "except clause". But if the execution does not take place, any remarriage, even of the innocently divorced wife from the adulterous husband constitutes adultery. Not only for them, but for those they marry.

Christians always fled violence so separation is good but remarriage is not. Forgiveness is mandatory but reconciliation is based on wisdom in avoiding abuse.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I hate to see believers at each others throats - maybe we should drop this discussion and just agree that we see things differently. Please remember that Dave did not go around espousing his views for everyone to see - I asked him. As Farouk said: we're each entitled to our own views.

Maybe someone can offer an explanation for something that is nagging me: how can believers who each likely have the Holy Spirit of Truth, disagree so vehemently? We're told in Scripture that "the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth..." So why do seeming believers interpret Scripture so differently? I saw this with my sister and I - she believed in Preterism and I did not. I know her - she was an ardent bible student. I wondered if it was "doctrines of demons" or even if I was the one uninformed and do not yet know it. If she was, then why didn't the Holy Spirit show her?

Does anyone else get puzzled over this?

We can get into arguments over the letter. We are seeking the letter, are basically saying...no, but we want a ruler over us.

But if we seek the Spirit of the word, and walk in the Spirit, not demanding something for our flesh, something to rule over our flesh, like other men, then we will not fulfill the lusts of our flesh.

If I think of a clearer explanation, ill post it...

 

[Dave L]

I hate to see believers at each others throats - maybe we should drop this discussion and just agree that we see things differently. Please remember that Dave did not go around espousing his views for everyone to see - I asked him. As Farouk said: we're each entitled to our own views.

Maybe someone can offer an explanation for something that is nagging me: how can believers who each likely have the Holy Spirit of Truth, disagree so vehemently? We're told in Scripture that "the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth..." So why do seeming believers interpret Scripture so differently? I saw this with my sister and I - she believed in Preterism and I did not. I know her - she was an ardent bible student. I wondered if it was "doctrines of demons" or even if I was the one uninformed and do not yet know it. If she was, then why didn't the Holy Spirit show her?

Does anyone else get puzzled over this?

I think we need our minds renewed by the word and it happens depending how much time each spends in the word.