divorce and remarriage?

[GodsGrace]

I think that is a holdover of,from, the Jewish tradition related to tribes and bloodlines.
Just like the prohibition against what today is called race mixing.

A living hell is staying married to the wrong person. A new living hell is staying unmarried for the rest of your life because the first marriage was a mistake.

As if God didn't see that.
Marry if you're in love.
Man's traditions I think sometimes paint God's will onto themselves in order to give those man made traditions and rules more teeth.

Jesus didn't marry. If we're to be like Jesus in all things marriage isn't possible.

But it is. I think God wants us to be happy and in love. Not scared and alone.
I think God has more to do than watch our love life.

Hi Oceanprayers
Love your avatar.

What you write above does not take into account WHY there is a Christian marriage and why there should not be divorce.
Marriage is for the stability that a family requires to live together and share their life.
This includes taking care of children that result from the marriage.
It also includes the welfare of the wife, much of which was destroyed with the onset of women's lib.


In a true Christian marriage, there would be no hell for living alone the rest of one's life because the two persons would be striving
to make a nice life for themselves.

(and for their children).

Divorce breaks up the family and has an effect on the extended family.
It makes a mess.

 

[GodsGrace]

This I agree with......not all saved Christians are going to get their ticket stamped at Judgment Day.

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.....dead and reborn... Romans 6:4

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. John 3:5

Hi GH
Can I assume that by the above you believe that the water in John 3 is the water of baptism?
Yes or No is fine...do not want to derail.

 

[Oceanprayers]

Hi Oceanprayers
Love your avatar.

Thank you.

What you write above does not take into account WHY there is a Christian marriage and why there should not be divorce.
Marriage is for the stability that a family requires to live together and share their life.
This includes taking care of children that result from the marriage.
It also includes the welfare of the wife, much of which was destroyed with the onset of women's lib.


In a true Christian marriage, there would be no hell for living alone the rest of one's life because the two persons would be striving
to make a nice life for themselves.

(and for their children).

Divorce breaks up the family and has an effect on the extended family.
It makes a mess.

Does a dysfunctional marriage make a mess? Does it assure stability? A positive life sffirming environment for impressionable babies and children?

Some insist we can choose to hold faith in Christ.
While others insist we can't choose to leave an unhealthy marriage.

 

[lilygrace]

And @lilygrace
One of the things that we do not talk about much is that some Protestants believe that we are buried in Christ with Baptism and the person that comes up out of the water...is a new person from the perspective of God. At that instant, that person is sinless, and nothing they did in the past will be held against them....or even remembered by God.

This was a belief in first years of Christianity because people would wait to be baptized just before they died.

most protestants i know get baptizeed some time after being saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you.


Does a dysfunctional marriage make a mess? Does it assure stability? A positive life sffirming environment for impressionable babies and children?

Some insist we can choose to hold faith in Christ.
While others insist we can't choose to leave an unhealthy marriage.

I explained what a CHRISTIAN marriage looks like and why it's necessary for our society.

I wasn't addressing a dysfunctional marriage.
A true Christian marriage should not be dysfunctional.

Two persons that love God put Him above all else.
They make a good environment for themselves and their children.

These impressionable children you speak of are being raised sans one parent or the other.
They spend weekends with the other parent.
They have their clothes in two different homes.
They do homework haphazardly because all they need is not with them.
They have friends during school that they don't see at some times...sometimes weeks.

Of course, these days we're used to seeing this so it doesn't have an impact anymore.
It's no longer unusual for a kid to have divorced parents.
It still causes a lot of hurt, even though it's more accepted.

There's a reason why we should be monogomist.

 

[GodsGrace]

The nation of Israel in the O.T. for one.

The one you gave about how polygamy was practiced in early history in Jews & Christian circles for the other..



Although I can understand your point of view, just a man & a woman agreeing to have sex for the first time is them getting married, but Jesus referred to the leaving of the father & the mother; hence a wedding ceremony or something publicly done that they are notifying their parents and those who know them that they are leaving their parents to be joined together as a married couple.

It has to be God's design because Jesus is the Bridegroom, warning believers to be ready or else, they will miss out on the reception.

In the parable of the ten virgins, which is likened unto the kingdom of heaven in verse 1 of Matthew 25:1-13 , although they missed out on the reception and can never get in after the door is shut, they are still part of that kingdom of heaven because that was how the kingdom of heaven was described.



I disagree still because of wat Jesus said.



Again, Jesus said a man leaves his father & mother and then married when he & his wife are one flesh and not before.



I am aware of what society allows today but not okay in God's eyes when He had joined them together to be one flesh. Not the sex that does that.



If on a deserted island with no other witnesses but God, when they got married, then God who joined them together is why they are married



If no man has seen the Father at any time but Jesus did in John 1:18 & John 6:46, then the God men had seen in the O.T. was Jesus before His incarnation as the Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many. That is why He testified that Abraham had seen Him in John 8:56-59 which was the event in Genesis 18:1-8 where the Lord ate & drank. The Lord had appeared to Abraham before in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1.

The Lord appeared to Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 & again in Genesis 26:24

The Lord appeared to Jacob and they had wrestled together where Jacob had seen His face & lived in Genesis 32:24-30

So like it or not, the name Jehovah, is one of the Lord's name, before He had come to earth as the prophesied Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many.

You like wedding banquets C4M !!

 

[Grailhunter]

most protestants i know get baptizeed some time after being saved.

Humor....point of salvation....popup timer?

 

[lilygrace]

seriously?!??

 

[Oceanprayers]

I explained what a CHRISTIAN marriage looks like and why it's necessary for our society.

I wasn't addressing a dysfunctional marriage.
A true Christian marriage should not be dysfunctional.

Two persons that love God put Him above all else.
They make a good environment for themselves and their children.

These impressionable children you speak of are being raised sans one parent or the other.
They spend weekends with the other parent.
They have their clothes in two different homes.
They do homework haphazardly because all they need is not with them.
They have friends during school that they don't see at some times...sometimes weeks.

Of course, these days we're used to seeing this so it doesn't have an impact anymore.
It's no longer unusual for a kid to have divorced parents.
It still causes a lot of hurt, even though it's more accepted.

There's a reason why we should be monogomist.

I know you explained what a Christian marriage looks like .
However, Christians do divorce. And they also remarry.

Divorce Rates for Atheists Lower Than Christians

 

[Grailhunter]

seriously?!??

No I said humor!

Some people believe that salvation is a thought....belief in Christ.
Some people believe it includes Acts 2:38 and John chapter 6....
Some people have different definitions of salvation.
I associate salvation with "saved" Simple term for a simple people....saved from something?? Saved from Hell....So we have Baptism....starts your Christian life with a clean slate and from there your sins are between you and Christ.
Next the Bread and Wine ritual....John chapter 6... Christ said if you do not do this ritual there is no life you...you do not abide in Him or He in you....and He will not raise you on the last day....What would it be like to be Saved and have no life in you....not abide in Christ or He in you.....and He does not raise you on the last day.....what would that be like? Is this where ghosts come from?...LOL more humor.

Edited this

 

[Behold]

A living hell is staying married to the wrong person. A new living hell is staying unmarried for the rest of your life because the first marriage was a mistake
Jesus didn't marry. If we're to be like Jesus in all things marriage isn't possible.
.

There is such a thing as a bad marriage. There is such a thing as being married to the wrong person.
Both of these fall more in the camp of the unbelievers, as they are generally together for sex, and they find out too late that sex isn't love.

The belevers are supposed to be abstaining from sexual contact, till marriage, so, we hope that they are taking the time to find out if this person is a true life mate and a true believer.
Sometimes, what you married isn't what you got.
It can be that a person is manipulating, hiding, pretending, lying., and you find this out later, after the ring, after the consummation, and after the baby is born.
THEN you have a real problem, as you are now a parent, and that changes all the options into "much more difficult".
So, hopefully, if you find that you have married a devil, you discover this before you have a kid with that same.

God is the God of continued 2nd chances.
We are allowed to live and learn. We are allow 2nd chances, but, in some cases, the change or the escape, is going to be felt for life.

 

[Oceanprayers]

There is such a thing as a bad marriage. There is such a thing as being married to the wrong person.
Both of these fall more in the camp of the unbelievers, as they are generally together for sex, and they find out too late that sex isn't love.

The belevers are supposed to be abstaining from sexual contact, till marriage, so, we hope that they are taking the time to find out if this person is a true life mate and a true believer.
Sometimes, what you married isn't what you got.
It can be that a person is manipulating, hiding, pretending, lying., and you find this out later, after the ring, after the consummation, and after the baby is born.
THEN you have a real problem, as you are now a parent, and that changes all the options into "much more difficult".
So, hopefully, if you find that you have married a devil, you discover this before you have a kid with that same.

God is the God of continued 2nd chances.
We are allowed to live and learn. We are allow 2nd chances, but, in some cases, the change or the escape, is going to be felt for life.

Since God is a forgiving God of love, I think he'd forgive divorce.
And bless two people who found love with one another after.

Children suffer in bad marriages and sometimes after divorce. Not always though.

Realizing the examples of relationship play before their eyes, I'd be more concerned with how they'd fair as adults if they were let to witness a dysfunctional marriage. And because that couple were afraid of God more than they were concerned for their child's future having witnessed their earthly role models examples in a bad marriage.

What's that old saying? The son and daughter will seek the life their daddy gave his wife.

And if God ordains and blesses marriage between Christians, then I would think the first proof a marriage is not that is when it becomes intolerable for either or both parties .

 

[TLHKAJ]

No scripture necessary.
Abuse is grounds for annulment.
Annulment means the marriage never happened.

It's important to have scriptural backing... at least for someone who wants to please God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know you explained what a Christian marriage looks like .
However, Christians do divorce. And they also remarry.

Divorce Rates for Atheists Lower Than Christians

Christians get divorced just as much as non-Christians.
We all know this.

Actually, what Jesus taught is very difficult for me to make peace with.
When we speak about marriage I have to state what the bible states...I don't believe
we're allowed to have our own opinion about what Jesus spoke.

However, I'd have to agree with much of what you say.
The problem today, I THINK, is that persons leave each other for the sake of convenience.
Or maybe they don't "like" each other anymore.
Sometimes there is not a "real" reason..although to them it seems like a real reason.

So if we're going to speak biblically, yes, when 2 persons get married, they are married until one of them dies...except for some
good reason. MOST don't have a "good" reason that would annul the marriage.

What to do? If a man leaves a woman with two children to raise and she meets a man she would like to share her life with -- it seems that Jesus' words are very harsh. (to divorce, legally, ONLY in case of adultery).

Some of His sayings are difficult to bear.
Maybe 2 Timothy 4:3 ?
Maybe Acts 7:57 ?

 

[GodsGrace]

It's important to have scriptural backing... at least for someone who wants to please God.

The question was specifically about misuse in a marriage.
I don't know a verse about this.
I know that in the O.T. (the time of Moses) women were misused because their husbands just up and left them with no financial support system....
this is why Moses initiated the Certificate of Divorce...it was to give the wife some protection from being abandoned for no reason.

Does the bible state we shouldn't smoke pot or shoot heroine?
I don't think God is too happy about that either.

 

[Grailhunter]

@GodsGrace @Oceanprayers @TLHKAJ

Are you ladies fantasizing about being in a polygamous marriage or want to be concubines? I am sure you ladies would fetch a good price! If not? Why are you talking about the Mosaic Law....why are you concerned with the conversation that Christ had with the Jews about the Mosaic Law?

We are Christians. Right? If you are going to focus on anything focus on what Paul said.
Fundamentalists...you guys have a hard enough time keeping up with what is in the Bible...there is some humor there!
Biblically speaking, there was no such thing as a Christian divorce. They just left each other, no religious process for divorce in Christianity. That is why the word divorce does not appear outside the Gospels. The relationship was severed when one or the other had sex with someone else after they separated. The sin that keeps compounding! I find humor in this! That would be a new type of sin not found in the Bible. LOL If we get drunk....and in order to repent or get forgivness.....do we have to go back and puck the whiskey on the bartender?

Legally women could not divorce their husbands until around 1643.

Common sense applies. Marriage is for two people that are in love. The 5 O' clock news documents couples that are married that are not in love. Ever see two cats with their tails tied together thrown over a clothes line? Common sense applies.....are we going to punish the children?....growing up in a home that has no love?

With all this concern through the centuries, you would think some one in church would come up with some relationship counseling before conducting a marriage.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace @Oceanprayers @TLHKAJ

Are you ladies fantasizing about being in a polygamous marriage or want to be concubines? I am sure you ladies would fetch a good price! If not? Why are you talking about the Mosaic Law....why are you concerned with the conversation that Christ had with the Jews about the Mosaic Law?

We are Christians. Right? If you are going to focus on anything focus on what Paul said.
Fundamentalists...you guys have a hard enough time keeping up with what is in the Bible...there is some humor there!
Biblically speaking, there was no such thing as a Christian divorce. They just left each other, no religious process for divorce in Christianity. That is why the word divorce does not appear outside the Gospels. The relationship was severed when one or the other had sex with someone else after they separated. The sin that keeps compounding! I find humor in this! That would be a new type of sin not found in the Bible. LOL If we get drunk....and in order to repent or get forgivness.....do we have to go back and puck the whiskey on the bartender?

Legally women could not divorce their husbands until around 1643.

Common sense applies. Marriage is for two people that are in love. The 5 O' clock news documents couples that are married that are not in love. Ever see two cats with their tails tied together thrown over a clothes line? Common sense applies.....are we going to punish the children?....going up in a home that has no love?

With all this concern through the centuries, you would think some one in church would come up with some relationship counseling before conducting a marriage.

The CC has precana.
Counselling BEFORE a marriage takes place.
It's pretty extensive too...it lasts a few sessions (maybe not right now with covid).
A priest I know that does these lessons told me that most couples have the idea that
IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT WE CAN ALWAYS GET DIVORCED.

So they're going in with the wrong idea and if this is the idea then the marriage is pretty much over before it ever starts.
There is no longer a real decision toward commitment.
It's easier for a woman to make this commitment...much more difficult for a man - who has to love his marriage and his
life more than any temptation that might come along.

I brought up divorce certificates in the time of Moses because this was a great jump ahead for women back then.
Women were actually more respected at Moses' time than at Jesus' time.

I think the CC has the right idea about marriage and the solutions.
But, yes, they also teach that divorce is really not an option...
so we're back to square one.

Jesus' teaching on this is difficult to accept.

 

[TLHKAJ]

Are you ladies fantasizing about being in a polygamous marriage or want to be concubines? I am sure you ladies would fetch a good price! If not? Why are you talking about the Mosaic Law....why are you concerned with the conversation that Christ had with the Jews about the Mosaic Law?

You are barking up the wrong tree with me. I haven't brought up Mosaic law. I simply asked for clear Biblical support that says abuse annuls a marriage or gives her a right for divorce. You're talking to a woman who left her husband because of not only domestic violence, but cult abuse, adultery/forced adultery, and his fear of those who threatened our lives. I stood for myself and our children when he was unable or unwilling to do so. I left, but never divorced him. I prayed for him all these years.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are barking up the wrong tree with me. I haven't brought up Mosaic law. I simply asked for clear Biblical support that says abuse annuls a marriage or gives her a right for divorce. You're talking to a woman who left her husband because of not only domestic violence, but cult abuse, adultery/forced adultery, and his fear of those who threatened our lives. I stood for myself and our children when he was unable or unwilling to do so. I left, but never divorced him. I prayed for him all these years.

You did good.

 

[Grailhunter]

The CC has precana.
Counselling BEFORE a marriage takes place.
It's pretty extensive too...it lasts a few sessions (maybe not right now with covid).
A priest I know that does these lessons told me that most couples have the idea that
IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT WE CAN ALWAYS GET DIVORCED.

So they're going in with the wrong idea and if this is the idea then the marriage is pretty much over before it ever starts.
There is no longer a real decision toward commitment.
It's easier for a woman to make this commitment...much more difficult for a man - who has to love his marriage and his
life more than any temptation that might come along.

I brought up divorce certificates in the time of Moses because this was a great jump ahead for women back then.
Women were actually more respected at Moses' time than at Jesus' time.

I think the CC has the right idea about marriage and the solutions.
But, yes, they also teach that divorce is really not an option...
so we're back to square on.

Jesus' teaching on this is difficult to accept.

You definitely said a mouth full there.
And I do believe if you are a member of the denomination, you should abide by the rules or the denomination. That gets a little sticky. Then is it actually a sin to break one of the church rules? And then do they actually know what those rules are?



Not being a fundamentalist or a Catholic I look at all that has been changed and all that has been adopted after the Bible and most don't even know about it....they just think it has always been part of their religion.