Do all atheist deserve Hell?

[bbyrd009]

The kind of “hell” believed by most religions, Christian and non-Christian, does not exist in the Bible.

Sheol and hades mean the common grave of mankind as opposed to an individual burial site.

Gehenna, like the lake of fire, is a symbol of complete destruction. Jesus said that body and soul are “destroyed in this place. (Matthew 10:28)
"Tartarus" is a condition of restraint placed on the wicked angels who sinned in Noah's day. (2 Peter 2:4)....its not any kind of "hell"

do you only speak in facts, all the time? Are you an oracle then?
What im wondering here is, is it possible to have a conversation with you without you assuming a mantle of superiority, wherein i am being lectured at and talked down to, by someone most likely half my age

 

[bbyrd009]

The question in this thread is whether or not Atheists deserve hell. The question presupposes that hell exists and that people are placed there. If such a place did exist, the answer is we all deserve to be placed there.

In essence, it's a matter of what we deserve.

wadr i think that, like most Bible lawyers, you are taking some passages waaay too literally, and i dont think you can support this “everyone deserves to go to hell” jazz any kind of way with the Bible, fwiw.

An analogy, “Gehenna,” that imo serves most excellently for what we naturally do to those who are self-centered and uncaring of any but themselves, has been warped all out of proportion imo, along with the analogy of “saved,” which is what we do for those who DO care and aren’t self centered, into some possibility of immortality after death, that cannot be Quoted from anywhere

and fwiw i feel for both of you guys ok, trapped in that Bible-lawyer thing, where you must present yourself as All-Knowing, all the time, the very opposite of “little child,” when i guess the vv you should be contemplating are the ones like He who says that he knows anything does not yet know it as he ought, He who digs a pit or others to fall into ends up in it himself, All go to the same place, No one has ever gone up to heaven, etc, and then, having comprehended those we might move on to the more difficult ones, that you guys only pretend to have a grasp of, no offense meant

 

[Wrangler]

I have met a lot of them, some are really nice people and apart from not believing in God i don't see anything bad in what they are doing

Perhaps but God sees.

God made this world and although it is a fallen world, it is still beautiful and good in many ways. Sure, atheists can be good as far as the world is concerned. However, Jesus said only God is good. In addition, your concept of justice does not fully square with God's plan for his elect.

The Bible says that the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom. This truth is grounded in his sovereign will. What does this mean? It means God can do what he wants. He calls people to him, people who we may think are not good. Why does he do that? Although the question is above our pay grade, one reason is to show that he is God.

For instance, aside from Jesus, the 2 men who stand most prominently in Scripture are Moses and David. They are murderers. Yet, God anointed them, called them to lead his people in their time.

I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy.
Exodus 33:19

The implication, of course, is that he will also NOT be gracious to whom he wills and will NOT show mercy to whom he wills. This is a good article on the larger topic. Who are the elect of God? | GotQuestions.org. Great topic!

Hope this helps.

 

[Wrangler]

We all deserve hell. Why should atheists be any different?

One of the most foolish things I've ever heard anyone say is that they are not at war with Islam. It doesn't change the fact that Islam is at war with you. Just because you do not believe in a certain part of reality, does not make it untrue.


Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!
Psalm 14:1

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9
​

 

[CadyandZoe]

wadr i think that, like most Bible lawyers, you are taking some passages waaay too literally, and i dont think you can support this “everyone deserves to go to hell” jazz any kind of way with the Bible, fwiw

An analogy, “Gehenna,” that imo serves most excellently for what we naturally do to those who are self-centered and uncaring of any but themselves, has been warped all out of proportion imo, along with the analogy of “saved,” which is what we do for those who DO care and aren’t self centered, into some possibility of immortality after death, that cannot be Quoted from anywhere

and fwiw i feel for both of you guys ok, trapped in that Bible-lawyer thing, where you must present yourself as All-Knowing, all the time, the very opposite of “little child,” when i guess the vv you should be contemplating are the ones like He who says that he knows anything does not yet know it as he ought, He who digs a pit or others to fall into ends up in it himself, All go to the same place, No one has ever gone up to heaven, etc, and then, having comprehended those we might move on to the more difficult ones, that you guys only pretend to have a grasp of, no offense meant

First of all, I am a bit perplexed by your attitude toward my "all knowing" presentation as if I would dare tell you something that I thought wasn't true. I am going to tell you what I know to be true and if this offends you, then get over it. Do you understand? If not, it's not my problem.

Second, I didn't say we all go to the same place. I said we all deserve to go the same place. And yes I am "trapped" in that lawyer thing, and I like it. A true child of God stays fixed on the truth once he or she finds it. And if you think of this as being "trapped" then I would advice you to get trapped too.

Finally, Jesus said that we should have a child-like faith, not a child-like mind. Don't confuse the two. He also said that we ought to be shrewd, which is akin to sagacity and wisdom. If you are offended by sagacity, then what are you doing here?

And wisdom dictates that I remain suspicious of anyone who tells me "no offense meant."

 

[bbyrd009]

We all deserve hell. Why should atheists be any different?

One of the most foolish things I've ever heard anyone say is that they are not at war with Islam. It doesn't change the fact that Islam is at war with you. Just because you do not believe in a certain part of reality, does not make it untrue.


Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!
Psalm 14:1

wadr i am at a loss to describe any interaction that i have ever had with a Muslim that could be described as anything other than pleasant, hmm

 

[Wrangler]

wadr i am at a loss to describe any interaction that i have ever had with a Muslim that could be described as anything other than pleasant, hmm

Not to hijack the thread ... One of the most common errors with this is to confuse Muslims, who are people, with Islam, the evil ideology they have been indoctrinated into. A Muslim who is good is not a good Muslim. The more a person practices Christianity, the more peaceful they will be. The more a person practices Islam, the more violent they will be.

Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam.

 

[bbyrd009]

First of all, I am a bit perplexed by your attitude toward my "all knowing" presentation as if I would dare tell you something that I thought wasn't true. I am going to tell you what I know to be true and if this offends you, then get over it. Do you understand? If not, it's not my problem

well see, you are going to “tell you what i know is true” surely believing that, but that does not make it true, and is in fact in direct opposition to what Scripture teaches, He who says that he knows anything does not yet know it as he ought, which is wadr what you are mostly demonstrating here, i guess without realizing it?

So i dont mean to say that you are lying, just that you are deceived, like anyone who presents facts as truth is. And im not offended—except for possibly in the moment, once again being talked down to by someone who is deceived—bc i pretty much ignore you, just like i ignore anyone caught up in the cult of sol and dwelling on a hell for others that is not supported by the Bible, cannot be Quoted, and will not obtain

Second, I didn't say we all go to the same place

yet the Bible does, quite plainly, see, All go to the same place
You and your sons will be here with me
No one has ever gone up to heaven

I said we all deserve to go the same place

yes, in this nebulous “afterlife” that the cult of sol has imagined for you, and you have licked up as if it were true, right? Where, oh where, in the Bible, are you finding any “I came that you might have an afterlife, more abundantly?”

 

[bbyrd009]

Not to hijack the thread ... One of the most common errors with this is to confuse Muslims, who are people, with Islam, the evil ideology they have been indoctrinated into. A Muslim who is good is not a good Muslim. The more a person practices Christianity, the more peaceful they will be. The more a person practices Islam, the more violent they will be.

Muslims are the biggest victims of Islam.

i gotta say that your perspectives seem at least as suited for what we deem “Christianity” as it does Islam, and no offense but WE are the ones with million dollar bombs and trillion dollar “defense” budgets, and running an apartheid country (Israel, Inc) to boot, so ima cry bullshit there wadr.

“A Muslim who is good is not a good Muslim” well they are at least much more humble than you, and i would much rather have them for neighbors, wadr. I think you are kidding yourself, and have become Islamophobic by proxy, since i seriously doubt you have ever even met a single one. And also this exactly the opposite of what the Bible says, fwiw. “The sons of God are those who do the will of God,”and you are not the arbiter of that, no matter how much you might like to present yourself as, sorry.

Now, if you have some personal grievance against any Muslim that you have ever interacted with, then by all means say it, but wadr i think you are full of crap too, and im pretty confident that you could not even document the last time you said “boo” to a Muslim lol

 

[Triumph1300]

WE are the ones with million dollar bombs and trillion dollar “defense” budgets

Maybe that's because the koran tells them to kill us, bbyrd?


"Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them," Allah instructs the Prophet Muhammad (Quran, 9:5). He continues: "Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites! ... Hell shall be their home, an evil fate."

 

[Wrangler]

i gotta say that your perspectives seem at least as suited for what we deem “Christianity”

There is no verse of the sword in Christianity.

As a civlized nation, we must be more capable of violence than barbarians. However, you are comparing nation States to ideology AS IF it were equivalent. Not too many kill IN THE NAME OF JESUS.

And this brings us to Godless States. Communism has killed 100M human beings. So, if you want to look at Atheist ideologies collectively, there is that.

 

[bbyrd009]

Maybe that's because the koran tells them to kill us, bbyrd?

yes, and the Bible instructs us to “bash babies heads in” too, when read with the wrong eyes

wadr if The Opening of Sur’ahs is read it becomes crystal clear that no one is meant to be literally killed or even done any violence against, and that that is being misinterpreted

 

[bbyrd009]

There is no verse of the sword in Christianity.

As a civlized nation, we must be more capable of violence than barbarians. However, you are comparing nation States to ideology AS IF it were equivalent. Not too many kill IN THE NAME OF JESUS.

And this brings us to Godless States. Communism has killed 100M human beings. So, if you want to look at Atheist ideologies collectively, there is that.

that is wadr all for people who are of the world, and i am just not interested. Go and judge alien states to your heart’s content though, if you like. But dont imagine that you are not getting robbed blind by Capitalism ok, and the bill is coming due soon. So, completely self-inflicted iow.

Wanna compare National Debts? Hell no you dont lol

 

[Wrangler]

yes, and the Bible instructs us to “bash babies heads in” too, when read with the wrong eyes

When reading with the wrong eyes?

The verse of the sword is unqualified. There is no comparable unqualified verse in the NT. Waging war was in the OT - directed at peoples who no longer exist.

The Koran is remarkably void of context. Like Psalms or Proverbs, one chapter really has nothing to do with the next. The same with the Surra's in the Koran. Sad you are defending this evil ideology. But there you have it.

 

[Wrangler]

i am just not interested.

Yet, you make post after post, proving your interest.

But dont imagine that you are not getting robbed blind by Capitalism .... Wanna compare National Debts?

Capitalism & National Debt have nothing to do with the topic at hand. (Sounds like a good topic for another thread).

 

[CadyandZoe]

well see, you are going to “tell you what i know is true” surely believing that, but that does not make it true, and is in fact in direct opposition to what Scripture teaches, He who says that he knows anything does not yet know it as he ought, which is wadr what you are mostly demonstrating here, i guess without realizing it?

So i dont mean to say that you are lying, just that you are deceived, like anyone who presents facts as truth is. And im not offended—except for possibly in the moment, once again being talked down to by someone who is deceived—bc i pretty much ignore you, just like i ignore anyone caught up in the cult of sol and dwelling on a hell for others that is not supported by the Bible, cannot be Quoted, and will not obtain



yet the Bible does, quite plainly, see, All go to the same place
You and your sons will be here with me
No one has ever gone up to heaven

yes, in this nebulous “afterlife” that the cult of sol has imagined for you, and you have licked up as if it were true, right? Where, oh where, in the Bible, are you finding any “I came that you might have an afterlife, more abundantly?”

Have it your way.

 

[Triumph1300]

yes, and the Bible instructs us to “bash babies heads in” too, when read with the wrong eyes

I you go by the Old Testament, go ahead.
I don't see Jesus saying: "Bash in babies heads".
I see you have "Groper" under your name and list no faith.
Jesus still loves you though. (And I am reading that NOT with "wrong eyes".

 

[bbyrd009]

Have it your way.

as long as you cannot address the Scriptures Quoted i guess i will tks

 

[bbyrd009]

Yet, you make post after post, proving your interest.

Capitalism & National Debt have nothing to do with the topic at hand. (Sounds like a good topic for another thread).

sounds like a deflection

 

[Aunty Jane]

do you only speak in facts, all the time? Are you an oracle then?

Facts? Yes, what else is there about any topic worth studying?

What im wondering here is, is it possible to have a conversation with you without you assuming a mantle of superiority, wherein i am being lectured at and talked down to, by someone most likely half my age

The “mantle” is not one of “superiority”, but simply stating what I know to be true after half a century of Bible study.....I am flattered that you assume that I am half your age....I may well be older than you are.

Is your insecurity showing? Defensiveness is not warranted here is it?
Does being offered Bible truth become offensive when it does not agree with what you want to believe. There can only be one truth....not many versions of it, opposing each other.

The “wheat” exist in the world, as Jesus said they would, but the “weeds” are in the majority. “Few” are on the road to life, and they are not alone in what they believe.....all will be united in their beliefs and worship, no matter where they live or what language they speak. (1 Cor 1:10; Matt 7:13-14)

The truth truly unites people...it doesn’t divide them whilst they pretend to be united as they assume that their differences don’t matter.
God does not speak with a forked tongue. It’s the other guy who does that.