Do Hymns have any revelancy?

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A_Man

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Do you think the songs we sing in church mean much in the way we think about Christianity?
This is a small excerpt from a book none of you will probably ever read:

The whole rise of Western Civilization — science and technology, medicine, the arts, constitutionalism, the jury system, free enterprise, literacy, increasing productivity, a rising standard of living, the high status of women — is attributable to one major fact: the West has been transformed by Christianity. True, the transformation is not yet complete. There are many battles ahead. But the point is that, even in what is still largely an early Christian civilization, God has showered us with blessings.

Many Christians do not realize it, but the Hope is the basis for many of the great old hymns of the faith, written before the modern era of evangelical despair and pessimism. Think about that the next time you sing Martin Luther's "A mighty Fortress is our God," Isaac Watts's "Jesus shall reign where'er the sun doth his successive journeys run," or George Duffield's "Stand up, stand up for Jesus." Do you really believe that Jesus is now leading us "from victory unto victory... till every foe is vanquished, and Christ is Lord indeed"? That is what the Church has historically believed. That is what they sang in their hymns. This can be seen most clearly in the traditional Christmas carols, which, like Athanasius' reflections on the Incarnation, are unabashed expectations of Christ's triumph over the world through the gospel. Carols such as "Come, thou long-expected Jesus," "O come, O come, Emmanuel," "Hark! the herald angels sing," "God rest you merry, gentlemen," and many others are written from the same basic perspective as the present book. The conviction that — as a result of His first advent — Christ is now reigning from heaven and conquering the earth underlies the message of "Joy to the world!":
No more let sins and sorrows grow,
Nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make his blessings flow
Far as the curse is found.
He rules the world with truth and grace,
And makes the nations prove
The glories of his righteousness
And wonders of his love.

The same is true of that great victory-oriented carol, "It came upon the midnight clear":

For lo, the days are hast'ning on,
By prophet bards foretold,
When with the ever-circling years
Comes round the age of gold;
When peace shall over all the earth
Its ancient splendors fling,
And the whole world give back the song
Which now the angels sing.

The Psalms: Our Hymnbook of Dominion
There is a very important connection between the Church's worldview and the Church's hymns. If your heart and mouth are filled with songs of victory, you will tend to have an eschatology of dominion; if, instead, your songs are fearful, expressing a longing for escape — or if they are weak, childish ditties — your worldview and expectations will be escapist and childish.

Historically, the basic hymnbook for the Church has been the Book of Psalms. The largest book of the Bible is the Book of Psalms, and God providentially placed it right in the middle of the Bible, so that we couldn't miss it! Yet how many churches use the Psalms in musical worship? It is noteworthy that the Church's abandonment of dominion eschatology coincided with the Church's abandonment of the Psalms.


The Psalms are inescapably Kingdom-oriented. They are full of conquest, victory, and the dominion of the saints. They remind us constantly of the warfare between God and Satan, they incessantly call us to do battle against the forces of evil, and they promise us that we shall inherit the earth. When the Church sang the Psalms — not just little snatches of them, but comprehensively, through the whole Psalter — she was strong, healthy, aggressive, and could not be stopped. That is why the devil has sought to keep us from singing the Psalms, to rob us of our inheritance. If we are to recapture the eschatology of dominion, we must reform the Church; and a crucial aspect of that reformation should be a return to the singing of Psalms. Listen to the historic hymns of the victorious Church:

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will worship before Thee. (Ps. 22:27)


For evildoers will be cut off,
But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the earth.
Yet a little while, and the wicked man will be no more;
And you will look carefully for his place, and he will not be.
But the meek will inherit the earth,
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.(Ps. 37:9-11)

Come, behold the works of the LORD,
Who has wrought desolations in the earth.
He makes wars to cease to the end of the earth;
He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two;
He burns the chariots with fire.
Cease striving and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth. (Ps. 46:8-10)

0 clap your hands, all peoples;
Shout to God with the voice of joy.
For the LORD Most High is to be feared,
A great King over all the earth.
He subdues peoples under us,
And nations under our feet. (Ps. 47:1-3)

All the earth will worship Thee,
And will sing praises to Thee;
They will sing praises to Thy name. (Ps. 66:4)

He will rule from sea to sea,
And from the River to the ends of the earth.
The nomads of the desert will bow before Him;
And His enemies will lick the dust.
The kings of Tarshish and of the islands will bring presents;
The kings of Sheba and Seba will offer gifts.
All kings will bow down before Him;
All nations will serve Him. (Ps. 72:8-11)

All nations whom Thou hast made shall come and worship before Thee, 0 LORD;
And they shall glorify Thy name. (Ps. 86:9)

All the kings of the earth will give thanks to Thee, 0 LORD, When they have heard the words of Thy mouth. And they will sing of the ways of the LORD; For great is the glory of the LORD. (Ps. 138:4-5)

Let the godly ones exult in glory;
Let them sing for joy on their beds.
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
And a two-edged sword in their hand,
To execute vengeance on the nations,
And punishment on the peoples;
To bind their kings with chains,
And their nobles with fetters of iron;
To execute on them the judgment written;
This is an honor for all His godly ones.
Praise the LORD! (Ps. 149:5-9)

I definitely think that hymns that we hear, that we repeat over and over, affect the way we think and believe. I remember a country-style gospel song that had the phrase 'split the eastern' sky in it. I do not believe that exact phrase is in the Bible, but I heard it a bit in preaching, and if you asked people in those circles, they might think the phrase was in scripture. Some phrases in hymns take on that kind of weight.

I am not against modern choruses. Some of them are paraphrases of parts of the Psalms. I've heard some good ones about victory through the cross and other Biblical truths. The poetry isn't as lengthy and developed as the old four-stanza hymns. But I like both, if the song is good. Some songs are kind of shallow. A lot of the shallow 'old hymns' did not retain their popularity.

I heard a song a few years back, "Step, step, step in the river.' It was kind of a newer Pentecostal sounding song. I found the theological content to be light-- at least for those who haven't read the passages about the river, and even if, I'm not convinced it's that great a song. But it sounded good. I enjoyed the children's song 'Deep and wide' at three with the hand motions, but I don't think I got the metaphor or learned much from it.

Songs we sing in church should edify the saints. They can be praises to the Lord or songs that remind us of spiritual truths.

Btw, I read that Joy to the World was originally an 'Easter' hymn, but became popular at Christmas time.
 
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Stan B

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Btw, I read that Joy to the World was originally an 'Easter' hymn, but became popular at Christmas time.

That's okay, since Jesus was actually born at Easter, i.e. Passover. Scholars tend to agree that Jesus was born one to two weeks of Nissan, the month of new beginnings. Like . . when else would God introduce "The Lamb of God" to this world?
 

A_Man

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That's okay, since Jesus was actually born at Easter, i.e. Passover. Scholars tend to agree that Jesus was born one to two weeks of Nissan, the month of new beginnings. Like . . when else would God introduce "The Lamb of God" to this world?
I do not think scholars tend to agree.
 
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A_Man

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Atlanta area
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Do you think the songs we sing in church mean much in the way we think about Christianity?
This is a small excerpt from a book none of you will probably ever read:

The whole rise of Western Civilization — science and technology, medicine, the arts, constitutionalism, the jury system, free enterprise, literacy, increasing productivity, a rising standard of living, the high status of women — is attributable to one major fact: the West has been transformed by Christianity. True, the transformation is not yet complete. There are many battles ahead. But the point is that, even in what is still largely an early Christian civilization, God has showered us with blessings.

Many Christians do not realize it, but the Hope is the basis for many of the great old hymns of the faith, written before the modern era of evangelical despair and pessimism. Think about that the next time you sing Martin Luther's "A mighty Fortress is our God," Isaac Watts's "Jesus shall reign where'er the sun doth his successive journeys run," or George Duffield's "Stand up, stand up for Jesus." Do you really believe that Jesus is now leading us "from victory unto victory... till every foe is vanquished, and Christ is Lord indeed"? That is what the Church has historically believed. That is what they sang in their hymns. This can be seen most clearly in the traditional Christmas carols, which, like Athanasius' reflections on the Incarnation, are unabashed expectations of Christ's triumph over the world through the gospel. Carols such as "Come, thou long-expected Jesus," "O come, O come, Emmanuel," "Hark! the herald angels sing," "God rest you merry, gentlemen," and many others are written from the same basic perspective as the present book. The conviction that — as a result of His first advent — Christ is now reigning from heaven and conquering the earth underlies the message of "Joy to the world!":
No more let sins and sorrows grow,
Nor thorns infest the ground;
He comes to make his blessings flow
Far as the curse is found.
He rules the world with truth and grace,
And makes the nations prove
The glories of his righteousness
And wonders of his love.

The same is true of that great victory-oriented carol, "It came upon the midnight clear":

For lo, the days are hast'ning on,
By prophet bards foretold,
When with the ever-circling years
Comes round the age of gold;
When peace shall over all the earth
Its ancient splendors fling,
And the whole world give back the song
Which now the angels sing.

The Psalms: Our Hymnbook of Dominion
There is a very important connection between the Church's worldview and the Church's hymns. If your heart and mouth are filled with songs of victory, you will tend to have an eschatology of dominion; if, instead, your songs are fearful, expressing a longing for escape — or if they are weak, childish ditties — your worldview and expectations will be escapist and childish.

Historically, the basic hymnbook for the Church has been the Book of Psalms. The largest book of the Bible is the Book of Psalms, and God providentially placed it right in the middle of the Bible, so that we couldn't miss it! Yet how many churches use the Psalms in musical worship? It is noteworthy that the Church's abandonment of dominion eschatology coincided with the Church's abandonment of the Psalms.


The Psalms are inescapably Kingdom-oriented. They are full of conquest, victory, and the dominion of the saints. They remind us constantly of the warfare between God and Satan, they incessantly call us to do battle against the forces of evil, and they promise us that we shall inherit the earth. When the Church sang the Psalms — not just little snatches of them, but comprehensively, through the whole Psalter — she was strong, healthy, aggressive, and could not be stopped. That is why the devil has sought to keep us from singing the Psalms, to rob us of our inheritance. If we are to recapture the eschatology of dominion, we must reform the Church; and a crucial aspect of that reformation should be a return to the singing of Psalms. Listen to the historic hymns of the victorious Church:

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, And all the families of the nations will worship before Thee. (Ps. 22:27)


For evildoers will be cut off,
But those who wait for the LORD, they will inherit the earth.
Yet a little while, and the wicked man will be no more;
And you will look carefully for his place, and he will not be.
But the meek will inherit the earth,
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.(Ps. 37:9-11)

Come, behold the works of the LORD,
Who has wrought desolations in the earth.
He makes wars to cease to the end of the earth;
He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two;
He burns the chariots with fire.
Cease striving and know that I am God;
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth. (Ps. 46:8-10)

0 clap your hands, all peoples;
Shout to God with the voice of joy.
For the LORD Most High is to be feared,
A great King over all the earth.
He subdues peoples under us,
And nations under our feet. (Ps. 47:1-3)

All the earth will worship Thee,
And will sing praises to Thee;
They will sing praises to Thy name. (Ps. 66:4)

He will rule from sea to sea,
And from the River to the ends of the earth.
The nomads of the desert will bow before Him;
And His enemies will lick the dust.
The kings of Tarshish and of the islands will bring presents;
The kings of Sheba and Seba will offer gifts.
All kings will bow down before Him;
All nations will serve Him. (Ps. 72:8-11)

All nations whom Thou hast made shall come and worship before Thee, 0 LORD;
And they shall glorify Thy name. (Ps. 86:9)

All the kings of the earth will give thanks to Thee, 0 LORD, When they have heard the words of Thy mouth. And they will sing of the ways of the LORD; For great is the glory of the LORD. (Ps. 138:4-5)

Let the godly ones exult in glory;
Let them sing for joy on their beds.
Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
And a two-edged sword in their hand,
To execute vengeance on the nations,
And punishment on the peoples;
To bind their kings with chains,
And their nobles with fetters of iron;
To execute on them the judgment written;
This is an honor for all His godly ones.
Praise the LORD! (Ps. 149:5-9)

Constitutionalism? Really? Is there any reason to think God wants written democratic/republic constitutions? He worked through judges, elders and kigs in the past. Some of your quotes mention kings. Some aspects of 'the high status of women' may be good fruits of Christianity. But should we endorse pendulum swings beyond biblical teaching?
The 'high status' of women in our society enables them to divorce easily and usually get the kids, half the stuff and a steady stream of income with regular cases of injustice. Wives not submitting to their husbands is a bad thing and I am not inclined to believe the legal system not recognizing a husband's headship is positive.

Of course Christian influence can do good things while carnality and principalities and powers work to swing the pendulum to far. We saw civil rights, but then the institutions around that --mainly cognitive ones were perverted to protect groups that rallied around sexual perversion.
 

Willie T

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Constitutionalism? Really? Is there any reason to think God wants written democratic/republic constitutions? He worked through judges, elders and kigs in the past. Some of your quotes mention kings. Some aspects of 'the high status of women' may be good fruits of Christianity. But should we endorse pendulum swings beyond biblical teaching?
The 'high status' of women in our society enables them to divorce easily and usually get the kids, half the stuff and a steady stream of income with regular cases of injustice. Wives not submitting to their husbands is a bad thing and I am not inclined to believe the legal system not recognizing a husband's headship is positive.

Of course Christian influence can do good things while carnality and principalities and powers work to swing the pendulum to far. We saw civil rights, but then the institutions around that --mainly cognitive ones were perverted to protect groups that rallied around sexual perversion.
Wow! She must have raked you over the coals good. LOL (Want to tell us about it?)
 
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