Do NOT make images of Christ!!

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ScottA

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You are trying to trivialize a very terrible sin. You are misleading people. You are taking them to hell.

You compare the living image that God has made with the dead image that people make. Can a dead image speak? Can it hear? Can it smell? Does it have breath in its lungs?

You are doing the works of the devil. You are twisting. You hide the evil. On your head will come your falsehood.

On the contrary, you offend these little ones with your misrepresentation and misunderstanding of what is written. For God made them "a living being", but in that day when they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil--they died; "And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— they are as dead.

But the point is, God has commanded against the making of "idols" and having "other gods", which He called "graven images" (only)-- not mere "images" that would condemn Him also.
 

Cassandra

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Why do you give Jesus long hair? Was Jesus gay?
Long hair makes someone gay? Really?

I read a whole lot of hate in your threads. /you need to take a good long look at yourself before you go condemning others to hell.

It's one thing to be upset about images. Many can understand that. But the hate in your heart for those you speak about here as well as an entire group of people which you condemn (btw Jesus died for you too. We all killed Christ, every one of us)
just amazes me.
 

John839

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Long hair makes someone gay? Really?

I read a whole lot of hate in your threads. /you need to take a good long look at yourself before you go condemning others to hell.

It's one thing to be upset about images. Many can understand that. But the hate in your heart for those you speak about here as well as an entire group of people which you condemn (btw Jesus died for you too. We all killed Christ, every one of us)
just amazes me.
1 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering.


The Bible itself says that long hair is for women, not for men. Why does a man want to look like a woman?
 

Cassandra

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1 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering.


The Bible itself says that long hair is for women, not for men. Why does a man want to look like a woman?
You not only condemn men--you also do women. A lot of old women like to get their hair cut shorter because it is easier to take care of. you've got them wearing a headscarf. Do you really think it bothers God?
 

John839

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You not only condemn men--you also do women. A lot of old women like to get their hair cut shorter because it is easier to take care of. you've got them wearing a headscarf. Do you really think it bothers God?
There are rules of nature to which every man must abide.

A man should have short hair and a full beard.
A woman should have long hair.

According to the Bible, anyone who does not follow these rules is not a Christian.

Do you seriously think a person can look the way he wants? No, a person must look as God wants.

Whoever obeys God will live.
 

Illuminator

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You are trying to trivialize a very terrible sin. You are misleading people. You are taking them to hell.

You compare the living image that God has made with the dead image that people make. Can a dead image speak? Can it hear? Can it smell? Does it have breath in its lungs?

You are doing the works of the devil. You are twisting. You hide the evil. On your head will come your falsehood.
“Catholics worship statues!” People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: “You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Ex. 20:4–5).
It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, “God has forbidden the use of images in worship” (281). Yet if people were to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

God Said to Make Them​

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: “And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be” (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all” (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple included statues of angels.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, “On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim.”

The Religious Uses of Images​

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to “make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live” (Num. 21:8–9).
One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.
Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these “graven” images, they would be practicing the “idolatry” of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images.
It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus, when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named “Nehushtan”), the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).
read more here
For once, I'd like to see a verse that forbids Scripture in art form.
 

Cassandra

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“Catholics worship statues!” People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: “You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Ex. 20:4–5).
It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, “God has forbidden the use of images in worship” (281). Yet if people were to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

God Said to Make Them​

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: “And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be” (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all” (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple included statues of angels.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, “On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim.”

The Religious Uses of Images​

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to “make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live” (Num. 21:8–9).
One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.
Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these “graven” images, they would be practicing the “idolatry” of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images.
It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus, when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named “Nehushtan”), the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).
read more here
For once, I'd like to see a verse that forbids Scripture in art form.
I don't see any of the folk in the photo bowing to those. None of those men are prayed to or through.

As to the statues in the Bible, The difference being God instructed them to make those statues. Nowhere does He say for man to just do it.
It probably is because He knew some folk would bow down to them like Nehustan.
I have been to mass and seen people bow to the images. Why?
 

Illuminator

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I don't see any of the folk in the photo bowing to those. None of those men are prayed to or through.
Then why make statues of the reformers in the first place, since you are opposed to any statues? You miss the point entirely. We don't pray to statues and bowing shows respect for the person whom the statue represents, not to wood or plaster. Your rigid approach is stupid and insulting, all based on superficial observation.
As to the statues in the Bible, The difference being God instructed them to make those statues. Nowhere does He say for man to just do it.
It probably is because He knew some folk would bow down to them like Nehustan.
I have been to mass and seen people bow to the images. Why?
see above. Again, show me a verse the forbids Scripture in art form. Better still, show me a verse where God commands places of worship have bare white walls, and you are avoiding post #28. Radical iconoclasm is not biblical. It's closer to Gnosticism, not Christianity because it denies the incarnation principle. Calvin was wrong and so are you.
 
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knothead

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Imo it is ok to have a painting or even a statue of what Jesus is supposed to look like. As long as one uses it to bring Jesus to theirs thought each time they see it. Neither the painting or statue are to be and idol or something one would pray to. One should only pray to the Father in Jesus name.
 

Cassandra

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Then why make statues of the reformers in the first place, since you are opposed to any statues? You miss the point entirely. We don't pray to statues and bowing shows respect for the person whom the statue represents, not to wood or plaster. Your rigid approach is stupid and insulting, all based on superficial observation.

see above. Again, show me a verse the forbids Scripture in art form. Better still, show me a verse where God commands places of worship have bare white walls, and you are avoiding post #28. Radical iconoclasm is not biblical. It's closer to Gnosticism, not Christianity because it denies the incarnation principle. Calvin was wrong and so are you.
I didn't avoid what you wrote. I answered you that God commanded for those--man was never given permission to make his own statues and bow to them. There is a commandment that forbids it. It is missing from the Catholic list of 10 commandments.

  • I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
  • You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
  • Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.
  • Honor your father and your mother.
  • You shall not kill.
  • You shall not commit adultery.
  • You shall not steal.
  • You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  • You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
  • You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
Donde esta the part about you shall not make any graven images or bow down to them? It is in your Bible

Can you tell me why people bow to the statues in the church? Why would you bow to artwork? You never answered me.
And i never said Calvin was right. not a Calvinist. Nope.
 

Illuminator

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I didn't avoid what you wrote.
Then deal with what I wrote instead of repeating the same boring canard.
I answered you that God commanded for those--man was never given permission to make his own statues and bow to them.
Your statement is a non-sequitur.
You read into Scripture what isn't there by cherry picking a few verses and ignoring the context. The prohibition of making images is in the context of worshipping false gods. That's the first thing you refuse to see. You think you have a bat to beat Catholics with and make a fool of yourself in the process.

Furthermore, it is unbiblical to equate all bowing with worship, not to mention plain rude.
There is a commandment that forbids it. It is missing from the Catholic list of 10 commandments.
  • I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me.
  • You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain
  • Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day.
  • Honor your father and your mother.
  • You shall not kill.
  • You shall not commit adultery.
  • You shall not steal.
  • You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  • You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
  • You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
Donde esta the part about you shall not make any graven images or bow down to them? It is in your Bible
There are no commandments missing.
Can you tell me why people bow to the statues in the church?
It's called veneration of the person the statue represents. The statue is not the object of veneration, a real living saint in heaven is the object of veneration. We don't believe veneration is the same as worship, but you have been trained to think otherwise.
Why would you bow to artwork? You never answered me.
See post #28
 

Taken

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There are rules of nature to which every man must abide.
God doesn’t care what a person eats or wears. (Although I do find more and more people intentionally look like freaks. Lol)

God’s concern is that people choose to Love Him and that people would love other people. (And I do find more and more people are in Love…with themselves.)

A man should have short hair and a full beard.
A woman should have long hair.
Why? Some men do not have much facial hair and some women are balding and have thin stringy hair.

According to the Bible, anyone who does not follow these rules is not a Christian.
Rules are for the unruly.
Do you seriously think a person can look the way he wants? No, a person must look as God wants.
A person’s body INSIDE and OUT will look the way God “wants”, when He raises that body in glory. Until then, God is interested in the Truths in a mans Heart.
Whoever obeys God will live.
Yep…As Jesus said…He fulfilled the LAW…and …
Matt 22:
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

I am not fond of all the statutes and they being bowed down to, the trinkets, the repetitive prayers to a dead woman. Don’t care for art-works depicting supposed pictures, statutes, carvings of Jesus, nor Mary.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Taken

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The prohibition of making images is in the context of worshipping false gods.
Lev 26
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
[2] Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

So why do the catholic churches have statues, images, in a sanctuary (supposedly implied) dedicated to the LORD, and bow down, kneel and pray, lay trinkets before them, kiss such statues and images?
 
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Illuminator

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Lev 26
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
[2] Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

So why do the catholic churches have statues, images, in a sanctuary (supposedly implied) dedicated to the LORD, and bow down, kneel and pray, lay trinkets before them, kiss such statues and images?
See post #28. Just scroll up. It answers most of the objections that get repeated over and over again. The ones who were making images into idols were the enemies of Israel. Try reading the whole chapter and stop cherry picking verses out of context just so you can insult Catholics with a pretext of superiority.
 
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Taken

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See post #28. Just scroll up. It answers most of the objections that get repeated over and over again. The ones who were making images into idols were the enemies of Israel. Try reading the whole chapter and stop cherry picking verses out of context just so you can insult Catholics with a pretext of superiority.
No need to get testy. I quoted Scripture and I ask a question about what Catholics do, when it is scripture that seems to be making the Objection.
I’ll have a look back at post #28.

God Bless,
Taken
 

Taken

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No need to get testy. I quoted Scripture and I ask a question about what Catholics do, when it is scripture that seems to be making the Objection.
I’ll have a look back at post #28.

God Bless,
Taken
See post #28. Just scroll up. It answers most of the objections that get repeated over and over again. The ones who were making images into idols were the enemies of Israel. Try reading the whole chapter and stop cherry picking verses out of context just so you can insult Catholics with a pretext of superiority.
I read your post #28. You mention Cherubim (angels) being cast of gold to cover the Ark and a serpent on a pole for certain people to look upon (which you call a statue, but I do not agree.)

Then you mention Statues, That DO depict the Likeness of particular men, who had a part in shaping the History of Nations … which that ARE looked at, BUT NOT bowed down to, NOT prayed to, NOT revered as sinless….
IOW, No comparison aside from a hunk of plaster, rock, stone, metal…

What you did not mention was…
Any Scriptures of Statues, Idols, images depicting Jesus Christ being taught to erect, or bow down to in worship, Depicting He a diety.

It is not Secret, Spirits have Power to Appear in the Likeness as an Earthly man.

It is not Secret,
God is Spirit;
Christ (the All-mighty Power of God) is Spirit; Jesus (the Word of God) is Spirit.

There is no Similitude, Idol, Shrine, Drawing, Photo, Engraving, Statue that Depicts; GOD

God IS not a hunk of wood, stone, rock, metal, plaster, that which can neither, see, speak, hear, smell, taste, freely move about.

Bowing DOWN TO such man-Made Images;
Praying TO such man-Made Images;
Is worshiping.

So what about Mary ?
Who knows what she looked like?
Statues, Bowed to, Prayer to, Kissing, Carried about in Shrine fashion…and the Titles given to her (by men)? Such as;
Mother of God…
Ever Virgin…
Queen of Heaven…
Immaculate…(sinless)

Why?
Scripture never says those things ABOUT Mary, nor vaguely implies those things, nor to call out to her, erect statues of her, bow to them, pray before them, kiss them, parade them about…
Again Why?
 

Illuminator

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I read your post #28. You mention Cherubim (angels) being cast of gold to cover the Ark and a serpent on a pole for certain people to look upon (which you call a statue, but I do not agree.)
You do not agree that God commanded they be made?
Then you mention Statues, That DO depict the Likeness of particular men, who had a part in shaping the History of Nations … which that ARE looked at, BUT NOT bowed down to, NOT prayed to, NOT revered as sinless….
IOW, No comparison aside from a hunk of plaster, rock, stone, metal…

What you did not mention was…
Any Scriptures of Statues, Idols, images depicting Jesus Christ being taught to erect, or bow down to in worship, Depicting He a diety.
Because it's impossible. Again, show me a verse that forbids Scripture in art form. For the second time, a statue of Jesus is not Jesus, just like a picture of your mother is not your mother. Your straw man is absurd.
It is not Secret, Spirits have Power to Appear in the Likeness as an Earthly man.

It is not Secret,
God is Spirit;
Christ (the All-mighty Power of God) is Spirit; Jesus (the Word of God) is Spirit.

There is no Similitude, Idol, Shrine, Drawing, Photo, Engraving, Statue that Depicts; GOD

God IS not a hunk of wood, stone, rock, metal, plaster, that which can neither, see, speak, hear, smell, taste, freely move about.
No kidding.
Bowing DOWN TO such man-Made Images;
Praying TO such man-Made Images;
Is worshiping.
No, it is not. It is a veneration of the person a hunk of wood, stone, rock, metal, plaster represents. Your problem is adulterating plain English.
So what about Mary ?
Who knows what she looked like?
Statues, Bowed to, Prayer to, Kissing, Carried about in Shrine fashion…and the Titles given to her (by men)? Such as;
Mother of God…
Ever Virgin…
Queen of Heaven…
Immaculate…(sinless)

Why?
Scripture never says those things ABOUT Mary, nor vaguely implies those things, nor to call out to her, erect statues of her, bow to them, pray before them, kiss them, parade them about…
Again Why?
Scripture never says ALL authentic practices (or titles) must be in Scripture to be true. To claim it does makes the Bible into an idol of your own making.
There is good and bad use of religious statuary. To say that all religious statuary is bad proves you don't know the Bible.