Do We “grade” Sins

[soupy]

A friend recently remarked about her discussion with a gay man, he remarked he knew she considered gay a sin, she replied yes, it is, but we are all sinners, I overeat which is a sin.
I’ve pondered her remark, wondering if she knows her overeating is a sin, why is she cavalier about her sin. Seems she should not do it, yes, I agree we all sin but aren’t we called to stop sinning, should we continue in our sin which we know is wrong?
This led me to ponder why sexual sin is often the trigger, I am reminded of another discussion with a different friend whose church mandated the sexual sinner confess and repent in front of his church when his girlfriend (now wife) was pregnant, his premarital sin was obvious, I can guess others in the church had sexual sin in their life, but it did not become apparent for all to see.
Does anyone have experience of an obese person being confronted about the sin in their life? I’m also reminded of a pastor who talked about being confronted with his obesity. He was told he was not a good example being obese; he took the message to heart, losing weight to be a more effective pastor.
Since we all need to eat, how does one balance eating good foods, staying healthy and still enjoying food. I know some make healthy eating their god, instead of the true God.
What is your view on obese Christians? Is their obesity a sin or not? Should an obese person be confronted, of course they already know they are obese.

...and this isn't about "gay"

 

[mjrhealth]

Christians simply do not understand, sin, and the devil has so many stuck in a "rut" over it that hey fail to go anywhere. Why would over eating be a sin, dont see that listed anywhere, and yes christans have a habit of grading sin as if one is worse than another, all sin desrevs death, God does not grade sin.

In all His Love

 

[penguy83]

Indeed all sin is sin. There is not one worse than another.

 

[lforrest]

Just because someone is obese doesn't mean they are gluttons. Some can eat and eat and eat, and remain skinny as a rail. Then there are those who always need to watch their weight or it will get out of control. There is no principle from the Bible that forbids being fat, though I believe gluttony is a sin.


Romans 12:2 "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."
The worldly person wants everyone to be energetic and sexy so that they might indulge in fornication with them.

 

[Pelaides]

Just because someone is obese doesn't mean they are gluttons. Some can eat and eat and eat, and remain skinny as a rail. Then there are those who always need to watch their weight or it will get out of control. There is no principle from the Bible that forbids being fat, though I believe gluttony is a sin.


Romans 12:2 "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will."
The worldly person wants everyone to be energetic and sexy so that they might indulge in fornication with them.

I can eat 1 plate of food and gain 3 pounds, does that make me a glutton?My body does not metabolise carbohydrates like everyone else,Something like this may help me survive a famine.

A sin like sodomy is a serious offence,God burned an entire city because of it(sodom and gommorah).I have never seen him kill people for being gluttons.

 

[lforrest]

I can eat 1 plate of food and gain 3 pounds, does that make me a glutton?My body does not metabolise carbohydrates like everyone else,Something like this may help me survive a famine.

No, it doesn't make you a glutton. I gave no qualifications of what makes someone a glutton.

 

[HammerStone]

I think there is a natural surface tendency to grade sin. The simple reason for this is that it gives us the consolation that someone out there is worse. They are more evil and have a darker heart. The notion is somewhat comforting, and it results from an incomplete understanding of where men and women stand, God's great grace, and the greater narrative of a watered-down version of Christianity. (Matthew 7:1-5)

With that said, this is a surface-level grading. There is some distinguishing of sin, because there is an unforgivable sin (Mark 3:28-29). There is also the Old Testament law which clearly lays out penalties of varying degrees.

In regards to the comments about homosexuality and gluttony - well at the end of the day, does either glorify God? Answer that question rather than asking which is worse. This is the caricature that society rails against in this battle, and it sticks (if even unfairly) because it exists. To some extent, they are right because it's hard for me to watch a 350 lb Christian, who does not struggle with a disorder, rail on a group of people for their sin. That's not a Biblical image or act. If we can't get our house in order, then how and the heck do we address "their" issue?

With that said, we have a theology in the Bible that gets broken people to the church. The problem theology comes in when we think getting the broken person to the church entails their perfection here on Earth. Do I advocate that all gays are bound for hell? The truth is I don't believe that. I am going to operate on the assumption that God will sift the wheat and the tares as promised.

I've been given the great commission, the great judgment is not mine to make. Glory and thanks to God, because none of us here can do it.

You always give grace.

A sin like sodomy is a serious offence,God burned an entire city because of it(sodom and gommorah).I have never seen him kill people for being gluttons.

God also let the ten tribes and Judah be raped, pillaged, and subjugated to brutal empires because they would not listen nor turn to their Holy God. There were myriads of sin, and we see from modern society that idols abound.

Proverbs 23:1-2
When you sit to dine with a ruler,
note well whatis before you,
and put a knife to your throat
if you are given to gluttony.

 

[day]

There seems to be three broad categories of sin, 1) what pertains to the body like homosexuality and gluttony which seems to carry its own type of shame. 2) what pertains to others like murder, theft, and the one Jesus seemed to condemn most strongly - the leading of others into sin (Matt 18:6). 3) what pertains to God like idolatry, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All sin is offensive to God and we should ask for his grace to help us walk in way pleasing to him.

 

[KingJ]

A friend recently remarked about her discussion with a gay man, he remarked he knew she considered gay a sin, she replied yes, it is, but we are all sinners, I overeat which is a sin.
I’ve pondered her remark, wondering if she knows her overeating is a sin, why is she cavalier about her sin. Seems she should not do it, yes, I agree we all sin but aren’t we called to stop sinning, should we continue in our sin which we know is wrong?
This led me to ponder why sexual sin is often the trigger, I am reminded of another discussion with a different friend whose church mandated the sexual sinner confess and repent in front of his church when his girlfriend (now wife) was pregnant, his premarital sin was obvious, I can guess others in the church had sexual sin in their life, but it did not become apparent for all to see.
Does anyone have experience of an obese person being confronted about the sin in their life? I’m also reminded of a pastor who talked about being confronted with his obesity. He was told he was not a good example being obese; he took the message to heart, losing weight to be a more effective pastor.
Since we all need to eat, how does one balance eating good foods, staying healthy and still enjoying food. I know some make healthy eating their god, instead of the true God.
What is your view on obese Christians? Is their obesity a sin or not? Should an obese person be confronted, of course they already know they are obese.

...and this isn't about "gay"

As Christians we are going from glory to glory 2 Cor 3:18.

Sin = rebellion against God. There are definitely levels of rebellion!!!! This is not rocket science, it should be obvious to all Christians!! With the sacrifice of Jesus, we are now the bride of Christ and children of God. So lets parallel it to an earthly marriage as we clearly have a live / deeper relationship with God our Father...and are NOT yet in heaven.

Sin = rebellion against my wife. Not eating her food (1/10). Not complimenting her daily (2/10). Cursing her (3-5/10). Watching porn (6/10). Once -off adultery (9/10). Consistent adultery (10/10). At which point will she divorce me? at which point will you divorce?

When we continue in an extremity of rebellion we force a change of hearts desire for a new master where sincere repentance is no longer possible!!! That is why Jesus said adultery is grounds for divorce!!! If you continue in adultery your spouse is no longer your spouse in your heart. That is why Paul said we can shipwreck our salvation!! Homosexuality is a clear extremity of rebellion. It is going 100% against the purpose for which God made us. If a guy would be happier with another guy, God would have made him a woman. It is hence spitting in God's face. Homosexuality = 9/10, being fat = 1/10. The only issue with being fat is food is being given too much power over you. An easy bad habit as it IS IN OUR NATURE TO EAT. Homosexuality on the other hand......such a depth of evil to keep it up!!! Sure for some with gay parents it may be 8/10 and not 9/10 but never any lower!!

We are ALL told to JUDGE ourselves in FEAR and TREMBLING before a holy God. How in the universe do you survive such a session if you are gay....??? :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

Your friend who said the underlined has yet to grasp Christianity. He doesn't even register that he stumbled a brother with stupidity sounding right. '''We are all sinners, who am I to judge'' 1 Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

 

[dripping yellow madness]

Sin = FAIL haha!

 

[afaithfulone4u]

I think there is a natural surface tendency to grade sin. The simple reason for this is that it gives us the consolation that someone out there is worse. They are more evil and have a darker heart. The notion is somewhat comforting, and it results from an incomplete understanding of where men and women stand, God's great grace, and the greater narrative of a watered-down version of Christianity. (Matthew 7:1-5)

With that said, this is a surface-level grading. There is some distinguishing of sin, because there is an unforgivable sin (Mark 3:28-29). There is also the Old Testament law which clearly lays out penalties of varying degrees.

In regards to the comments about homosexuality and gluttony - well at the end of the day, does either glorify God? Answer that question rather than asking which is worse. This is the caricature that society rails against in this battle, and it sticks (if even unfairly) because it exists. To some extent, they are right because it's hard for me to watch a 350 lb Christian, who does not struggle with a disorder, rail on a group of people for their sin. That's not a Biblical image or act. If we can't get our house in order, then how and the heck do we address "their" issue?

With that said, we have a theology in the Bible that gets broken people to the church. The problem theology comes in when we think getting the broken person to the church entails their perfection here on Earth. Do I advocate that all gays are bound for hell? The truth is I don't believe that. I am going to operate on the assumption that God will sift the wheat and the tares as promised.

I've been given the great commission, the great judgment is not mine to make. Glory and thanks to God, because none of us here can do it.

You always give grace.



God also let the ten tribes and Judah be raped, pillaged, and subjugated to brutal empires because they would not listen nor turn to their Holy God. There were myriads of sin, and we see from modern society that idols abound.

Proverbs 23:1-2
When you sit to dine with a ruler,
note well whatis before you,
and put a knife to your throat
if you are given to gluttony.

Just to enlighten on the Proverbs you quoted. It is not warning against gluttony.. God warns us against letting our bellies rule over us, for we are then prone to be unfaithful to The Word when we LOVE the dainties that one of much money or power have to offer us, if we will just do their bidding. Once you eat and had your fill, then you will now be obligated to them. Don't be indebted to anyone that can cause you to fall.
God loves for His people to have abundance but not saying that we should eat carelessly anything and everything to bad health due to it though. The land over flowing with milk and honey. Just remember to be thankful for what God gives us is key.

 

[soupy]

I posted this to see other responses as I ponder the comment a friend made. This has made me consider, is obesity a sin, I'm talking about people I know who have/are literally destroying their body, have severe physical problems caused by their obesity.
Do they have the sin of gluttony, are they destroying/killing God's creation?
I can't say I know the answer, if it is a sin, why is it not discussed, is it not a sin, why not?
I'm compare it to sexual sin, such as an unmarried couple living together, is that a sin, would you point it out to a believing friend.
If you believe severe obesity is a sin, would you point it out to a believing friend?
I'm just musing over worldly thoughts and His thoughts.

 

[horsecamp]

defending sin as if its not sin is a faith in Jesus destroying action..

Jesus came into the world " only to save sinners .. all others need not apply to be saved .

if a person refuses to see their sin as sin that Jesus needed to win their forgiveness for
then their faith in Jesus on the cross for their. sin is destroyed.

they are in effect telling God he did not need to die since they are not guilty of sin.


I think you will find more people involved in some sexual sins defending their sin as if its not sin than those who do other things that are sin...



they are the ones more in danger of rejecting Jesus forgiveness already won for them and his heaven.

they are the ones more inclined to be sending them selves to hell exactly what God never wanted for them.do to defended sin as if it were not sin.

 

[KingJ]

I posted this to see other responses as I ponder the comment a friend made. This has made me consider, is obesity a sin, I'm talking about people I know who have/are literally destroying their body, have severe physical problems caused by their obesity.
Do they have the sin of gluttony, are they destroying/killing God's creation?
I can't say I know the answer, if it is a sin, why is it not discussed, is it not a sin, why not?
I'm compare it to sexual sin, such as an unmarried couple living together, is that a sin, would you point it out to a believing friend.
If you believe severe obesity is a sin, would you point it out to a believing friend?
I'm just musing over worldly thoughts and His thoughts.

Any addiction other then to Jesus is bad. But as humans getting addicted is in our nature....as life is boring / dull...apathy kicks in...depression etc etc etc. If we are knowingly killing our bodies....like eating Mcdonalds before it revamped...consistently...that is attempted suicide which is a sign of being extremely lost. Suicide is not comparable to other sin where we choose from free will to delve into. Being fat can have many reasons like food these days is bad or as mentioned above body conditions. We have to eat, there is no avoiding it. It is an easy bad habit to develop. God would never destroy a city purely for being fat LOL. Fasting once in a while from our addictions is good.

Being fat / obese is not a good testimony we must help our brothers and sisters in it...but it does not disqualify you from standing at the pulpit....unless you can't stand there :wub: .

Fornication has levels of rebellion against God to it too. If you sleep around = 9/10. If you are faithful and they are unsaved = 4/10 but 10/10 for stupidity.

 

[Mungo]

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor 6:8-9).

Gluttony is greed.

 

[Briancbm31]

Apparently some sins are worse than others...

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

And if all sin is the same then why will some receive a "greater damnation"?



Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

And it will be more tolerable for some in the day of judgment than for others....


Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And sexual sins are particularly bad...


1Cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

It is true that all sin leads to death and that may make it seem like its a moot point for some sins to be worse than others, but like Jesus said, it will be more tolerable for some in the day of judgment than it will be for others, and some will receive a greater damnation.

 

[HammerStone]

Just to enlighten on the Proverbs you quoted. It is not warning against gluttony.. God warns us against letting our bellies rule over us, for we are then prone to be unfaithful to The Word when we LOVE the dainties that one of much money or power have to offer us, if we will just do their bidding. Once you eat and had your fill, then you will now be obligated to them. Don't be indebted to anyone that can cause you to fall.
God loves for His people to have abundance but not saying that we should eat carelessly anything and everything to bad health due to it though. The land over flowing with milk and honey. Just remember to be thankful for what God gives us is key.

With all due respect my dear, you proceed to tell me the verse is not about gluttony but then proceed to say God "warns us against letting our bellies rule over us..." which is indeed a form of definition of gluttony. It does clearly have a larger application (as does any piece of Scripture), but this is very much talking about gluttony. If you like to eat, find yourself in the presence of someone trying to bribe you essentially based on that sinful flaw, then hold a knife to your throat.

Without getting overly graphic here, eating would yield a cut throat, and that's a fatal thing particularly in that time period. That very much applies to gluttony, and beyond. Gluttony is the example given in this instance.

 

[Pelaides]

Any addiction other then to Jesus is bad. But as humans getting addicted is in our nature....as life is boring / dull...apathy kicks in...depression etc etc etc. If we are knowingly killing our bodies....like eating Mcdonalds before it revamped...consistently...that is attempted suicide which is a sign of being extremely lost. Suicide is not comparable to other sin where we choose from free will to delve into. Being fat can have many reasons like food these days is bad or as mentioned above body conditions. We have to eat, there is no avoiding it. It is an easy bad habit to develop. God would never destroy a city purely for being fat LOL. Fasting once in a while from our addictions is good.

Being fat / obese is not a good testimony we must help our brothers and sisters in it...but it does not disqualify you from standing at the pulpit....unless you can't stand there :wub: .

Fornication has levels of rebellion against God to it too. If you sleep around = 9/10. If you are faithful and they are unsaved = 4/10 but 10/10 for stupidity.

I agree with this statement,not all fat people are gluttons.I once had a girlfriend that was obese,yet she ate like a normal person,although she had a fondness for cakes and pies which may have caused her problem.

 

[KingJ]

Apparently some sins are worse than others...

John 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

And if all sin is the same then why will some receive a "greater damnation"?



Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.

And it will be more tolerable for some in the day of judgment than for others....


Matt 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

And sexual sins are particularly bad...


1Cor 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

It is true that all sin leads to death and that may make it seem like its a moot point for some sins to be worse than others, but like Jesus said, it will be more tolerable for some in the day of judgment than it will be for others, and some will receive a greater damnation.

We can also just look at the differing punishments in the OT. Transgressing law = Warnings < Excommunication < hands chopped off < stoned to death < burnt at stake.

 

[veteran]

A friend recently remarked about her discussion with a gay man, he remarked he knew she considered gay a sin, she replied yes, it is, but we are all sinners, I overeat which is a sin.
I’ve pondered her remark, wondering if she knows her overeating is a sin, why is she cavalier about her sin. Seems she should not do it, yes, I agree we all sin but aren’t we called to stop sinning, should we continue in our sin which we know is wrong?
This led me to ponder why sexual sin is often the trigger, I am reminded of another discussion with a different friend whose church mandated the sexual sinner confess and repent in front of his church when his girlfriend (now wife) was pregnant, his premarital sin was obvious, I can guess others in the church had sexual sin in their life, but it did not become apparent for all to see.
Does anyone have experience of an obese person being confronted about the sin in their life? I’m also reminded of a pastor who talked about being confronted with his obesity. He was told he was not a good example being obese; he took the message to heart, losing weight to be a more effective pastor.
Since we all need to eat, how does one balance eating good foods, staying healthy and still enjoying food. I know some make healthy eating their god, instead of the true God.
What is your view on obese Christians? Is their obesity a sin or not? Should an obese person be confronted, of course they already know they are obese.

...and this isn't about "gay"

To know what is sin we must revert to what God's Word reveals about it, especially the differences in judgments God gave per the law.

Prov 23:20-21
20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
(KJV)


Gluttony is considered a sin in God's Word, but it does not only include overeating, but also drunkenness.

If a murderer-rapist tried to sieze your child, and you pulled a gun and killed in self-defense, how would you feel being tried as a first degree murderer instead? If you lit up a cigarette in a restaurant that forbids it and taken to jail for it and then tried as a terrorist, how would you feel about it? If we break the law, punishment should fit the crime, obviously.

Likewise with sin, because none of us can escape it because of this present world, punishment should fit the sin. Some sin is to the death, others are not (1 John 5:16). How would mankind continue to exist for this present world if evey... sin were treated the same, and brought an immediate death execution?

This is why we as Christians are called to 'forgive', that is if we also want forgiveness when we ourselves sin.

It's also why it is still... important to study God's laws of the Old Testament Books, because it has NOT all been done away with like some in the pulpits like to preach.

Many of the laws in the court systems in the Christian west come directly out of God's laws in The Bible. That's one thing that has distinguished the Christian west from other nations. Sins of murder, rape, thefts, public drunkeness, incest, etc., and their specific judgments are still... on the books in Christian nations.

God does not see all sin requiring the same punishment, since the seriousness of the judgment depends on the seriousness of the sin. Look to His laws to discover the seriousness of a specific sin, regardless of how it is dealt with today.