Do we even have the correct definition of "saved?"

[ScottA]

Actually - I was explaining Paul's journey - and John's and Peter's and James's, etc.
They ALL struggled with sin AFTER being born again in Christ.

The main difference between them and YOU - other than your incredible arrogance - is that they admitted it.

No...they wrote and ministered to and of struggles, even using themselves as examples just as God did, but preached absolution. One of the best examples (since you name John against the actual truth), is John saying:

1 John 3:6
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."​

And it is from that not knowing Him, that many as yourself who lack understanding, speak against the truth of the gospel and enable a lifetime of ongoing sin. Such is against Christ, the work of Satan.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No...they wrote and ministered to and of struggles, even using themselves as examples just as God did, but preached absolution. One of the best examples (since you name John against the actual truth), is John saying:

1 John 3:6
"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."​

And it is from that not knowing Him, that many as yourself who lack understanding, speak against the truth of the gospel and enable a lifetime of ongoing sin. Such is against Christ, the work of Satan.

And, in your complete ignorance, you take John OUT of context as you do the other Scriptures.

In context, John is talking about going back to a life of willful sin.
OTHERWISE, he would not have written the following and included himself:

1 John 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live according to the truth; but IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If WE say WE have no sin, WE deceive OURSELVES, and the truth is not in US. If WE confess OUR SINS, he is faithful and just, and will forgive OUR SINS and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If WE say WE have not sinned, WE make him a liar, and his word is not in US.

Don't just quote Scripture - LEARN what it is saying . . .

 

[Taken]

Paul is speaking in code imo,

2 Pet 3:
[16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

And the point is Paul's teaching is...the unlearned, acting as if the ARE prepared to Determine the Understanding...when the result of such IS in fact not so, they twist the understanding to be faulty.

 

[Taken]

Au contraire mon frere...God is merciful He is a Father to the fatherless and He looks after the afflicted and poor. He saves the widow and the orphan.

How is any of that contrary to God does not save the Innocent?

Are you saying...the fatherless, poor, widows, orphans are "Innocent"?

God does not Save the Innocent... because None Are Innocent.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

You say what you believe the Bible IS NOT.

there, yes, but i have just recently Quote what It is, also, theophneustos, only i guess you are only reading my replies to you maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

You are reading my English well enough, but whatever.

as i said, it is not your language i do not understand, it is the dialectic you are framing it in. "But whatever"

As for addressing a quote out of context as paraphrased in according to your meaning

as for proving that any of my quotes are "out of context" i have just recently invited you to add any context you feel might be necessary to one of my quotes, the kingdom of heaven is within you i think it was, what happened? Maybe i missed it, sorry. I have seen a couple (failed imo) attempts at refuting unapproachable light wherein the light suddenly becomes approachable...cant recall any others, but fwiw when i detect that i am being used as fodder for a lecture and i am no longer really in a discussion or conversation with someone, i generally just bail. Not that i dont voluntarily attend lectures

 

[Taken]

BreadOfLife said: ↑
Actually - I was explaining Paul's journey - and John's and Peter's and James's, etc.
They ALL struggled with sin AFTER being born again in Christ.

The main difference between them and YOU - other than your incredible arrogance - is that they admitted it.

@ ScottA

Uh BOL, before going on you usual accusation rampage...

Define this "Sin Struggle" that is one of your faves to divert to.

Are you claiming "they SINNED" after being born Again?

If so...

What Sin exactly did they, Paul, John, Peter, James, etc. Commit?

If it was not about them Committing a Sin...
What is the Relevance?

 

[bbyrd009]

So Byrd

it looks like you just want confirmation of your posts or rejection.....no discussion - got it

wonder why this isnt showing up in my notifications? Anyway, you might be right, dunno, i am just swimming along here as best i am able and trying not to be too offensive to anyone tbh. If you could point out where i have shut down a "discussion" i would appreciate it, as i do tend to um suck all the air out of a room sometimes, yes

Discussion would be great, if that were to incidentally happen, and let me repeat that i do not know, even if i am fairly convinced that to most believers at least "saved" infers immortality in heaven after literal death, although i am not too surprised if it does not mean that to you, Aspen. Although you were prevaricating at one point, at least it seemed like?

 

[bbyrd009]

So what is your Truth?

what is it? is the best truth, possibly

 

[Taken]

there, yes, but i have just recently Quote what It is, also, theophneustos, only i guess you are only reading my replies to you maybe

It is difficult enough to read and make any sense of your vague combination of incomplete sentences, tossing in of foreign words and street slang, you post to me, so no, I don't read all your comments.

God Breathed: yes.
However, there is the Recipient factor...

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, at least you know when I am joking and when I am not in a post.

well yes i agree it was a joke, an oblique ref to the naive dialectic prolly, dunno, but note that the joke was at my expense, and meant to be, which no biggie i understand. Manna does not taste very good to us lol, me neither. I do not really understnd playing baseball games to deliberate ties. I grew up in Texas, go team. And all that

But that would require going to the scripture which you believe is not the Word of yah as in God.

well It is descended from Word, surely, but yes theophneustos is not logos, at least that is my current understanding, and bam "go to Scripture" and demonstrate diff if you are able, ok with me! Word is not "words" i dont think, two diff roots, etc. I mean i guess they are related? But fairly distantly, imo

I would go to context of scripture but you say you don't do that so we are at an impasse.

i was looking for the...1 Peter? ref, that you brought up earlier, but its moving too fast in here, sorry. Point is (which that v kind of highlights) you would (unerringly?) "go" to the context of Scripture, while i would be groping for it and giving it my best guess, fwiw

where did i say i dont do that? again?

But that would require going to the scripture

well, actually that is an english interp of Scripture, yes? So Scripture has already been gone to? Again at this passage, if you feel it has been taken out of context, or if you can add some context that someone finds edifying, go for it imo. I dont have to agree for someone else to, yeh?

 

[bbyrd009]

So when you don't believe scripture to be the Word of God, then how can you correct any one from your paraphrasing quotes out of context?

how does the first concept negate the second? I guess im not getting you there, sorry. How does whether Scripture is Word or not alter whether i am taking any quotes out of context or not? Seems like i either am, or am not? Which btw i def might be, remains to be seen i guess.

So ill be looking for your context in the kingdom of heaven is within you, and any others as well, and again i do not have to agree with a post for it to be valid, i do not know, and i am strictly replying to posts as they arise here, in an attempt to get a better def of "saved" ok? I am taking it as a given that you know more than i do, and asking questions as they come up, and offering my best guess as that is asked for

Yah yah it doesn't say scripture directly.. my interpretation due to being able to discern good and evil from those that mishandle the word of God.

you Quote a passage of Scripture before this, and then this, but i cannot make it a pertinent reply to the post of mine you quoted; can you provide a tie-in? Plus, where is your interpretation? "my interpretation" i am not seeing for some reason. ty

my interpretation due to being able to discern good and evil from those that mishandle the word of God.

sorry? are you saying that you are able to discern good and evil here? Isnt that "the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?"

And incidentally can you just Quote "Scripture is the Word of God" real quick so we can clear that up? And either i will start up saying that again, or you can maybe cease, or prolly things will stay just like they are bc you are not going to go anywhere near this snip lol, but whaddya gonnado right

my interpretation due to being able to discern good and evil from those that mishandle the word of God.

sorry? are you saying that you are able to discern good and evil here?

And incidentally can you just Quote "Scripture is the Word of God" real quick so we can clear that up?

So when you don't believe scripture to be the Word of God, then how can you correct any one from your paraphrasing quotes out of context? What is the point of it other than to sow doubts to God's words?

so when you believe Scripture to be Word, see, sounds really great and pious and all, but next thing you know, In the beginning was the Bible, and the Bible was with Yah, and the Bible was Yah
so honest i mean no offense, but this "Scripture is Word" heresy is strickly a step on the way to self-justification, at least imo.

See, you got like 57 versions of "Scripture" you might consult in english, yeh, whereas i got 1, so who is it really believes Scripture is God-breathed, may i ask, much less Word?

But you ain't doing it in showing how you read the scripture for what you understand it to be saying so there is no way for God to help me see the truth in how you see it.

ha no really im not doing it bc i dont know what it is lol, and im not implying that i do

"the truth in how i see it" i thought truth was unassailable, objective, and not open to my interp?

regardless, bc i am not meaning to be strictly just a troll here, i can repost some of the vv from earlier, and you can add context to them if you like, if you feel any are being taken out of context, as you have mentioned several times now? But wadr without providing an example right then, why i am not sure? Maybe you did, and i missed it? Very possible btw lol

Now when you say you do not believe the Word of Yah, then I can't believe you mean you believe the truth when you read it in how you apply it to mean. So you kind of took the legs out from under you for any "interpretation" when you don't believe the Word of Yah anyway

ah ok, ty

and where did i say that i do not believe the Word of Yah, again? Bc im afraid im being um bonus misunderstood here, i totally believe the Word, and i love Scripture too, ftm

 

[bbyrd009]

I really can't even tell what you are trying to say. Please use complete words and punctuation, and explain what you actually believe about heaven and we can perhaps have a discussion.

the kingdom of heaven is within you
no one has ever gone up to heaven

those pretty much comprise all of my "beliefs" about heaven as you currently define it, i guess
oh, we do not yet know what we will become,
which does not apply to you i guess
so just rip that puppy out eh

 

[bbyrd009]

I think "most" people

yikes, taken doesnt know something, a breakthrough lol.
just kidding, i agree. prolly. lemme go look

What is ^ That?

yeh, i pretty much agree back there. And that is what you currently "believe," hook, line, and sinker bro; you are a mithraist. And Yah still loves you, ok, dont read that as condemnation, or "you are going to hell," bc i dont mean any of those ok

Uh, where did you get such nonsense?

by your confession, but again i love pagans, Catholics have the worst doctrine right, but turn out to be the best servers, and etc. I am not here to condemn you or to convert you, honest, just to maybe get you to think about this "Jesus Returning" yack that you cannot Quote, bc it is not true and never will be, surely. To get you to go search "Mithraism and..." for yourself, and pick your page from the auto-complete list, yeh?

recall fwiw that no less than Jesus Himself said of the Roman,
I have not seen such faith in anyone from Israel
.

I have never called or implied JESUS is called or referred to as Apollos.

ah, no, you call him "Jesus" with your mouth see, but you worship Him as Apollos, according to your own confession. So, Jesus in a dress, basically, as a search of "Mithraism and..." would make abun...well, prolly plainer than you are going to like i bet. It is somewhat of a shock, ok. God still loves you, ok. Yah does not care even a little how someone identifies, or what they say they "believe," surely.

All are Zionists or Mithraists?

All people?

Really?

What do those terms mean? (According to you)?

sorry, ipad wont let me snip the whole passage, keeps "helping" me lol
so yeh, all start out at least as zionists or mithraists, all believers not all ppl, and the terms are well defined already, i accept the common def at these terms, briefly a zionist expects a literal Jesus to literally Return and wear the crown of david, and a mithraist believes they will ascend to the Elysian Fields via Apollos after they have literally died, more or less

It is difficult enough to read and make any sense of your vague combi

oh yeh, i totally understand! I mean i read everything, but it is my thread after all...no, i read pretty much everything i guess. But i understand i am weird, and i dont mean to imply that i like catch everything or whatever, much prolly falls by the way, basically the house could burn down and i wouldnt notice, kinda thing

 

[Renniks]

the kingdom of heaven is within you
no one has ever gone up to heaven

those pretty much comprise all of my "beliefs" about heaven as you currently define it, i guess
oh, we do not yet know what we will become,
which does not apply to you i guess
so just rip that puppy out eh

You do know about punctuation?

And you do know that there's lots of teaching about heaven beyond that?

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."



"And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified."

"but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God."

" my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?"

"blessed bethe God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

" do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. "But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."

That's just a few of them.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world."

so bam inherit, the heir is under servants and is no better than a slave until he does, right

That's just a few of them.

so again i say inherit, that you may be one as they are one, etc. today. or another way to put that maybe, is to say that we should take what the preacher says while we are getting baptized literally

"And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified."

word

so again i say inherit, and bail on all the "death more abundantly" yack

 

[Renniks]

so bam inherit, the heir is under servants and is no better than a slave until he does, right

so again i say inherit, that you may be one as they are one, etc. today. or another way to put that maybe, is to say that we should take what the preacher says while we are getting baptized literally

word

so again i say inherit, and bail on all the "death more abundantly" yack

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying because it doesn't make any kind of sense.
But if you are promised an inheritance by God, you can be sure of it unless you refuse it by renouncing your faith.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying because it doesn't make any kind of sense.

ha well sorry about that, the link at the bottom might help, dunno if youve run across that yet, but you can always ask Qs or contemplate that we get "baptized" while Preach says some words, what are the words? Why do we go to Luby's for a celebration after we get baptized, rather than say a wake or a mourning for someone who is leaving, about to actually follow Jesus literal words to those who would be His disciples?

Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

 

[Renniks]

ha well sorry about that, the link at the bottom might help, dunno if youve run across that yet, but you can always ask Qs or contemplate that we get "baptized" while Preach says some words, what are the words? Why do we go to Luby's for a celebration after we get baptized, rather than say a wake or a mourning for someone who is leaving, about to actually follow Jesus literal words to those who would be His disciples?

Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

I don't see what baptism has to do with it.
We celebrate our inheritance, which you seem to think we won't get. Still not sure what you are trying to say.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying because it doesn't make any kind of sense.

yeh, "death, more abundantly" and life, more abundantly share the same lexicon, but forsooth do not mix i guess

But if you are promised an inheritance by God, you can be sure of it unless you refuse it by renouncing your faith.

ah, im pretty sure you are referring to "death, more abundantly" there wadr
all that one gets imo is beware the thief in the night
night is coming, when no man can work

and no offense but "faith" is not a noun to me