Do we know the year of Christ's return?

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

this is where a many of Christian miss the mark.

"the second invisible presence of Jesus Christ", are you kidding? understand, our Lord will appear twice, which one has already happen. and the so-called, "invisible presence of Jesus Christ", is nothing more that his "Manifestation" in the Spiritual Gifts, which happen on Pentecost. now his last apperance is yet to happen, his parousia, or second coming. supportive scripture, Hebrews 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

christians need to understand the difference between a "apperance" and a "Manifestation".

for the Lord Jesus has already "appeared" one in natural flesh, and "manifested" himself in Spirit at Pentecost with the gifts, the only thing left now is his second apperance which every eye will see, supportive scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The second presence of Jesus Christ, when he stands up as ruling as king, "in the midst of his enemies," starts when, "The times of the Gentles" end. It will be a invisible presence. I know you and others thinks Jesus is a liar when he said the world will not see him no more. Jesus said, "the anointed Christians," will see him but not the world. When Jesus was resurrected he only appeared to his Apostles and disciples, he did not appear to any unbelievers. Just as Jesus said, the world did not literally see him again. His second presence will be an invisible presence, only those with eyes of faith will know that Jesus second presence has begun.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I agree with you even though many here think you're a tad rough around the edges. But if true, then true nevertheless. ...

The only way to find out is to investigate.

So have you?
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

The second presence of Jesus Christ, when he stands up as ruling as king, "in the midst of his enemies," starts when, "The times of the Gentles" end. It will be a invisible presence. I know you and others thinks Jesus is a liar when he said the world will not see him no more. Jesus said, "the anointed Christians," will see him but not the world. When Jesus was resurrected he only appeared to his Apostles and disciples, he did not appear to any unbelievers. Just as Jesus said, the world did not literally see him again. His second presence will be an invisible presence, only those with eyes of faith will know that Jesus second presence has begun.

Hi Barney,
What of the 500 that saw Him, do you honestly think they were all saved? Paul wasn't saved when Jesus appeared to him. Just sayin.

 

[Josho]

So far 1 vote to 19.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Hi Barney,
What of the 500 that saw Him, do you honestly think they were all saved? Paul wasn't saved when Jesus appeared to him. Just sayin.

Yes they were all his disciples including the 500. Paul didn't literally see Jesus he saw a blinding light that took his sight from him temporarily and he heard Jesus voice.
Jesus told his disciples before he was put to death that the world will not see him again. Jesus doesn't lie when he said the world would not see him but his disciples would that was the truth.
Jesus Christ gave his disciples, "a sign" in other words he gave good reasons for them keeping spiritually alert to watch for the fulfillment of “the sign.” This would mean that their Master was invisibly ‘present,’ for no sign would be necessary if his presence was to be physical, visible.
When you see this composite sign that Jesus told his disciples, then you know that his second presence has begun. Only those with eyes of faith will understand this. The world will keep on marrying, eating, working not knowing the specific historical time that they are living in until Armageddon hits then they will know.

 

[JohnDB]

The study of eschatology is usually a train wreck.
Other than some shepherds (children not bright enough to be in school) and the few wise men no one recognized Jesus. (A few others as well)

Even as one of the many Messiahs running around in adulthood Jesus wasn't popular...I'd dare say that He was the least popular one of the many.
(The others forgotten about over time)

Even the Disciples asked about the place setting for Elijah during the Seder. (It was for John the Baptist)
Meaning that even the prophecy were twisted about so much that no one understood what they were about at all anymore.
They had people who were on "Messiah watch" then as well...just like today.
The Essenes that we talk about who provided us with the Dead Sea Scrolls...they were one such group. (They tossed John the Baptist out)

Somehow, we have people today that think they are much more capable than those of centuries ago.
Millerites were one such a group...they thought that they knew the day. Until starvation set in and no sign of Jesus anywhere. Then a few years later Laurie White descended upon them and scooped them up to form the SDA.

Human nature hasn't changed.

Where the Left Behind series has created a notion of "Beam me up" Theology with Jesus doing the beaming instead of Scotty we still aren't special enough to really know what is going to happen and when.

This latest plague isn't as bad as the ones in the past. One third of Europe (almost half) died in one. The last one was 100 years ago that was somewhat serious. We still aren't over the West Nile virus. It's still running around.
So is Zitkha and Dengue fever.

We have had several wars. (2 being global)
Several famines.
Whole cities destroyed by fire and flood and abandonment.
Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves and volcanoes...
Still no end. Just like Jesus said.

There is coming a final act in humankind...we just aren't there yet.

 

[Josho]

The study of eschatology is usually a train wreck.
Other than some shepherds (children not bright enough to be in school) and the few wise men no one recognized Jesus. (A few others as well)

Even as one of the many Messiahs running around in adulthood Jesus wasn't popular...I'd dare say that He was the least popular one of the many.
(The others forgotten about over time)

Even the Disciples asked about the place setting for Elijah during the Seder. (It was for John the Baptist)
Meaning that even the prophecy were twisted about so much that no one understood what they were about at all anymore.
They had people who were on "Messiah watch" then as well...just like today.
The Essenes that we talk about who provided us with the Dead Sea Scrolls...they were one such group. (They tossed John the Baptist out)

Somehow, we have people today that think they are much more capable than those of centuries ago.
Millerites were one such a group...they thought that they knew the day. Until starvation set in and no sign of Jesus anywhere. Then a few years later Laurie White descended upon them and scooped them up to form the SDA.

Human nature hasn't changed.

Where the Left Behind series has created a notion of "Beam me up" Theology with Jesus doing the beaming instead of Scotty we still aren't special enough to really know what is going to happen and when.

This latest plague isn't as bad as the ones in the past. One third of Europe (almost half) died in one. The last one was 100 years ago that was somewhat serious. We still aren't over the West Nile virus. It's still running around.
So is Zitkha and Dengue fever.

We have had several wars. (2 being global)
Several famines.
Whole cities destroyed by fire and flood and abandonment.
Earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves and volcanoes...
Still no end. Just like Jesus said.

There is coming a final act in humankind...we just aren't there yet.

Yep, train wreck alright, there are so many differing end time views.

I guess the best thing to do is just take the written prophecies in the Bible as they are, we just know these things are to happen whenever they happen.

Don't need to do any math to try to work out when Jesus is coming, so far many have failed to work it out.

 

[JohnDB]

Yep, train wreck alright, there are so many differing end time views.

I guess the best thing to do is just take the written prophecies in the Bible as they are, we just know these things are to happen whenever they happen.

Don't need to do any math to try to work out when Jesus is coming, so far many have failed to work it out.

The other side of all this is that the prophecy John wrote was given for a reason. There had to be others not written down. Paul died decades before John. But he talks about "The Man of Sin" or antichrist before John wrote Revelation.
And these are important because they have valuable lessons for us to understand today. Not so much for date setting...but to keep us from having too much faith in spiritual leaders and to let us understand that we have a true hope.

 

[Bobby Jo]

The study of eschatology is usually a train wreck. ...

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

The commentators didn't wait. They assigned ancient "fulfillments". So what did you expect, -- SUCCESS???

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... prophecy .. was given for a reason. ..

Exactly.-- And it wasn't so that you could be ignorant, although some choose to be.

Bobby Jo

 

[JohnDB]

Exactly.-- And it wasn't so that you could be ignorant, although some choose to be.

Bobby Jo

But I like quoting 2Paul as he requotes the book of Hezekiah 3:17 Beat the heathen with a stick, a mighty branch.

 

[Bobby Jo]

But I like ...

... talking, and pontificating A LOT.


And not so much studying or researching.
Bobby Jo

 

[JohnDB]

... talking, and pontificating A LOT.


And not so much studying or researching.
Bobby Jo

Well I can get into a discussion on Pelagius/Augustine/Calvin disparities and similarities....
Or Syncretism of the Persian Empire in the Roman Empire and subsequently Judaism but who is going to be able to keep up?

Instead I focus on the things that people can see and understand. I don't answer questions that aren't asked. It doesn't mean that I am unlearned...far from it. But I really don't see a need to "show off".

Besides...
I have bad habits from too much studying...my head goes into the clouds and I'm then not able to be any good to anyone.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Well I can get into a discussion on Pelagius/Augustine/Calvin disparities and similarities...

I believe the Topic is Prophecy. And where you interject on a subject in which you have no familiarity, and thus display your ignorance, perhaps silence would be more appropriate ...

Bobby Jo

 

[JohnDB]

I believe the Topic is Prophecy. And where you interject on a subject in which you have no familiarity, and thus display your ignorance, perhaps silence would be more appropriate ...

Bobby Jo

Eschatology/prophecy is a "final exam" of sorts of the sum of scriptural knowledge and how they are interpreted.
We have to look at how and when previous prophecy was said and fulfilled.
We can't miss on a single point and expect that we can truly understand the ones about the future. It's about a deep love of every word God said to us... because it was God who said it.
We do stand upon the shoulders of our spiritual fathers...but again that doesn't mean that they were perfect in their understanding either.

It's a difficult subject to work through. Patience, grace, and wisdom are definitely needed.

 

[Keraz]

WE can and should know what God has planned for our future, however Daniel 12:10b says; only a few wise peoples will understand.

Prophecy: A Lamp shining in the Darkness:

1 Corinthians 14:22b...prophecy is not for unbelievers, only for true believers in God.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 If you ask: How are we to know a true prophet? When a word spoken by a prophet is not fulfilled, then it is not a Word from the Lord.

2 Chronicles 24:19 The Lord sent prophets, who denounced those leading the people into sin, but they were not heeded.

Isaiah 42:9 The earlier prophesies have come to pass and now I declare new things. Before they unfold, I announce them to you.

Isaiah 49:5-6 The Lord made me to be His servant, to restore the tribes of Israel and to bring back the survivors to be a light to the nations.

Isaiah 50:4-9 The Lord has given me the ability to comprehend, I did not disobey His instruction and so suffered persecution, but God is my helper, therefore no insult can hurt me. Who would dare argue against me? They will not prosper.

Jeremiah 1:5-10 The Lord says: I have formed you to be a prophet to the nations. Fear not for I will be with you to keep you safe. I give you authority over nations, to uproot and destroy, to build and to plant.

Jeremiah 5:14...I shall make My Words a fire in your mouth, it will burn up this people.

Jeremiah 5:30-31 A appalling thing, an outrage has happened: prophets prophesy lies and the priests are in league with them, for the people love to have it so.

Jeremiah 14:14-16 Those false prophets who have no commission from Me, will meet their end by the sword and famine. I shall pour down on them the disaster they deserve.

Jeremiah 23:9-18 Because of the Word of the Lord, I am like a drunken man. For the Land is full of sinful people, prophet and priest alike are godless, therefore I shall bring disaster upon then on the Day of Reckoning. Do not listen to those so called prophets who buoy you up with false hopes and preach prosperity. Which of them has stood before the Lord, which of them has truly taken note of His Word and told the people the truth?

Ezekiel 3:17 I have appointed you, Ezekiel as a watchman for the Israelites, you are to pass to them the warnings you receive from Me.

Ezekiel 13:1-16 Speak against those false prophets who say: all is well, when nothing is well. They will have no place with My people, they will not set foot in the Land.

Ezekiel 14:3-10 Now the Israelites have their hearts set on their idols. Am I to be consulted by them? No, both the false prophet and those who consult them are guilty and I will rid My people of them.

Psalm 74:9 We cannot see any sign for us, we have no prophet now, no one amongst us can say how long our punishment will last.

Hosea 9:7 The Day of punishment comes, your prophets are fools, your seers are crazy, this is because of your great guilt and enmity.

Micah 3:5-7 Those prophets who lead My people astray will be overcome with shame.

Zechariah 13:2-6 In that Day, I will expel the idols, the prophets and the spirit of uncleanness from the Land. There will be no further prophesying.

2 Peter 1:19 This confirms for us the message of the prophets, to which you will do well to study. Their words shine like a lamp into a dark place, to instruct your minds.

Revelation 1:1 This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, to show His servants what must soon take place.
Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.

 

[historyb]

Well I can get into a discussion on Pelagius/Augustine/Calvin disparities and similarities....
Or Syncretism of the Persian Empire in the Roman Empire and subsequently Judaism but who is going to be able to keep up?

That would be awesome. Would love to stretch the intellect, not enough of that in Christianity anymore

 

[Bobby Jo]

Eschatology/prophecy is a "final exam" of sorts ...

Eschatology is the SIMPLEST of concepts because History either VALIDATES or INVALIDATES Scripture. And I agree that LIARS tell us that History is WRONG, when it's the LIARS that are wrong.

But if you don't like Scripture and History, then default to IGNORANCE. It's a "safe haven" for MOST of the church, right up there with STUPIDITY!
Bobby Jo