Do we live by Laws?

[1stCenturyLady]

99% of the people on this planet——when they hear the “ Repent” —— take it to mean “ Stop Sinning” ....They think that the way to be Saved is by “turning over a New Leaf” and if you can’t be perfect, at least you got to try as hard as you can......essentially it is rejecting Grace and relying on one’s Will -Power to resurrect the Law and finally making up your mind to “ keep it” ......If you break a Commandment , the answer is to return to the Law and try to do better the next time....and endless and useless cycle of Sin, Repent Of That Sin, Try harder to prevent that Sin in the future, Eventually do it again and repeat the same cycle.....Your best hope is to die between the Repent and Do it Again part of the cycle......if you die after sinning and failed to repent of that sin before you die, you get to go to Hell.......THAT is the type of Repentance I am referring to...it should ring a bell for a lot of people .....

This type of thinking is all about one’s “Performance” —— a Performance based on one’s ability to keep the Law .... They fail to realize that it’s all about Grace now ....a Grace given freely to all that simply believe the Gospel ( 1Cor15:1-4) ....That Old Testament Law That they so revere and want to bring back to show how sincere they are at trying to keep it ? “ Christ is the END OF THE LAW for all of those that Believe” In the end, it’s “ weak and useless” because it has “NO POWER” to save......

Of course it is repent of sins. But how do I believe we do that? Did you read #2 of this thread.

I do not agree with your idea of Grace. You seem to believe that we sin but grace covers it. That is NOT the gospel, nor what grace truly is.

 

[MatthewG]

People choose what they see, how they act and believe.

Whatever it is the important thing is to allow people to think for themselves, while having love for God and love for others.

 

[Bob Estey]

People believe and live accordingly to how they believe they should live, with the use of the Bible.

I have no reason to judge people as God will be the judge of people. Thus the responsibility is always on our own hands.

No one can change a persons mind, but God with the renewing of the mind.

Thus - people believe what they will, and want to, and there is no changing that, as most organizations of religion, believe in the death, burial, and resurrection. Along with whatever else they my present.

When it comes to Law, the only Law a person lives by is Christ Royal law, which is always done by the spirit of Christ with-in the person to live a life for God while on this earth.

As James in his letter indicates here: If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law, according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. James 2:8

There are two descriptions of people who will be in the Heavenly Jerusalem that is, people who are Children of God, and also those who are a Son or Daughter of God.

It's best to just let people how they are going to believe unless they are otherwise curious to alternatives founded on the principles with-in the Bible. The foundation that is right, in my opinion, is the one that Jesus Christ and his Apostles had laid out, however a person fulfills their role in doing good works in which God works in and through them by his spirit.

As Paul says to those in Philippi, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Philippians 2:13.

The question is how does God work with-in us?

By the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus, and also the Spirit of Christ lives and dwells with-in us.



Paul also addresses this to those in Colossians ;



Jesus Christ is now the life of the born again believer now today, in which helps us by his Spirit, with also help of the Holy Spirit of God with prayers and petitions to Him.



Stated by Paul here: in Romans is that the Spirit of Christ is also with us.

I find laws helpful. By obeying the Lord's laws, we stay out of trouble.

 

[MatthewG]

Just remind yourself that you are guilty, there is nothing wrong with that. Jesus did everything for you that one couldn't do on his own.

Really brings for the great grace, kindness, goodness, of God himself to memory while praying. Knowing that you are forgiven through and through and have newness of life by the spirit.

Jesus said we need to also ask God to help us, and that help comes by asking God to help you by the spirit.

Luke 11:13​

​

13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”​

Thank you for there good reminders as aways @Bob Etsy

 

[Gospel Believer]

Of course it is repent of sins. But how do I believe we do that? Did you read #2 of this thread.

I do not agree with your idea of Grace. You seem to believe that we sin but grace covers it. That is NOT the gospel, nor what grace truly is.

So how do “ you” define the Gospel and what do “ you” think Grace truly is?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So how do “ you” define the Gospel and what do “ you” think Grace truly is?

Romans 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

1 John 3:5
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins (sin nature), and in Him there is no sin.

Acts of the Apostles 1:4, 8
4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” ...But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, (Grace is the divine power of God given to us through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:2-4: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.)

Romans 6:6-16
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Romans 8:1-9
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

All the apostles were Hebrews and wrote in the eastern Semitic writing styles. Acts 4:33 is an important example of one such style called a parallelism, specifically a synonymous parallelism:

33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

There we see grace turned from being unmerited favor (while we were yet sinners) to a noun with substance. This grace is how we are dead to sin; it is the power of God.

‘Power’ and ‘grace’ are synonyms in the New Covenant.

 

[Dropship]

None of us can ever be perfect and God knows that, so all we can hope for is that he'll cut us some slack on judgement day..
Even Jesus knew his human half was a handicap-
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

None of us can ever be perfect and God knows that, so all we can hope for is that he'll cut us some slack on judgement day..
Even Jesus knew his human half was a handicap-
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

That is a doctrine of demons my friend called defeatism. Jesus, Himself, told us to be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect. Was that an unattainable goal? Did Jesus set us up to fail as demons want us to believe, so we never turn ourselves over to the power of the Spirit of Jesus inside of us, called walking in the Spirit? "As a man thinks in his heart, so is he." Was Jesus not perfect? 1 Peter 1:16 "because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

The human part of Jesus was perfect like the human nature that Adam was created with BEFORE he sinned. Jesus was CONCEIVED with the seed of the Father, just as we who are born again of the Spirit are without sin and given the power to keep ourselves. 1 John 3:9; 1 John 5:18.

Dropship, it may be that you were taught cessationism, another doctrine of demons, and not the NEW COVENANT where nothing inside of it ceases, including the power of the Holy Spirit given to us when we truly turn our lives over to Christ, and He baptizes us with His Spirit, giving us the divine power and nature of GOD! Please read my favorite passage of hope to be perfect in this lifetime written by Peter.

2 Peter 1:2-11
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control [b]perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [c]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Dropship, it may be time for you to rethink your theology before it is too late. I tell you this in case you are of one of the Calvinist reformed groups, where Jesus said of them, "you have a name that you are alive, but YOU ARE DEAD." Why? Defeatism. Revelation 3:1. Sardis is the church era of the Reformation, verses 1-6, just after Thyatira the long church age of Orthodox and the Roman Catholics churches. Notice in Sardis that there is a denomination that was started having to do with holiness and walking in white, verse 4. The only denomination of that age that fits is from John Wesley, 200 years into that church age.

Romans 1:16 shows that the gospel is the POWER OF GOD! Does that sound like He can't finish what he starts in us??? It is all Him that does that changing in us. From faith to faith. BTW, justification by faith is merely the first step, not the all in all. "add to your faith, virtue, etc. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

 

[Gospel Believer]

. BTW, justification by faith is merely the first step, not the all in all. "add to your faith, virtue, etc. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

The Tax Collector In Jesus story about the Publican and the Pharisee and how they acted in the Temple shows how the Publican went home SAVED ( Justified) because he simply turned to God as a Lost Sinner and Asked for Mercy....He merely “TURNED to God” ( the only type of “ Repentance” That Saves) with FAITH and he was “ good to go” ( Again, Jesus said he returned to his home Justified ) .....this proves that Faith alone Saves.....Of course , That Faith is just the Starting Point , and we are to Add to that Saving Faith once we “GET” Saved , but don’t act as if the wise “additions” to our Faith that Both Peter and Paul stressed are the “ Means” to getting Saved.....Don’t Confuse What we “ should” do with what we “ Must” do.....
The only thing that we MUST do is to make sure that we get “ Born Again” .....we accomplish “That” the second that we Believe the Gospel—— That Gospel would be that “ Jesus Died for our sins and rose from the dead”......simply Believe that without Adding to it with your Works and God will put His Holy Spirit in you .....once He puts that Spirit in you , you are Born Again....Saved forever.....Once you get that behind you, you can add to it with all the good things that you quoted.......

 

[Gospel Believer]

None of us can ever be perfect and God knows that, so all we can hope for is that he'll cut us some slack on judgement day..
Even Jesus knew his human half was a handicap-
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Your “ take-away” from this verse could not be more mistaken....Jesus was God in Flesh ....fully equal to God in every aspect.....he had no “ handicap”

Jesus was NOT trying to say that He was not Good.....He was saying that if you rightfully call him “ good” , realize that you rightfully call Him that because He * IS* God...

 

[Gospel Believer]

None of us can ever be perfect and God knows that, so all we can hope for is that he'll cut us some slack on judgement day..
Even Jesus knew his human half was a handicap-
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

God will NOT be “cutting people any slack” on Judgement Day .....It must be made clear.......if you are not “ Perfect” when you stand before God , you ain’t gonna make it into Heaven.....If a person thinks that they can reach Perfection on their own—- have at it ! If you have a brain however , there is another way to get that Perfection.....you can have the Perfection Of Jesus IMPUTED to you because of your Faith in the Finished Work Of The Cross plus Nothing....A wise person will go with that latter option...

 

[Dropship]

...Jesus was God in Flesh ....fully equal to God in every aspect....

Jesus made it clear he wasn't God, e.g.-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)
And even God himself said-
"This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matthew 17:5)
So if you don't believe God and Jesus you'd better argue it out with them when you meet them..

 

[Dropship]

God will NOT be “cutting people any slack” on Judgement Day .....It must be made clear.......if you are not “ Perfect” when you stand before God , you ain’t gonna make it into Heaven....

Even Paul hoped God would overlook his human imperfections, and the same goes for the rest of us, we have to keep our fingers crossed that we make the grade..-
Paul said-
"I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)

 

[Gospel Believer]

Jesus made it clear he wasn't God, e.g.-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)
And even God himself said-
"This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matthew 17:5)
So if you don't believe God and Jesus you'd better argue it out with them when you meet them..

I am not trying to say that Jesus literally is God....I am saying that He is equal to God.....

“ If you have seen me you have seen the Father”

“ I and the Father are One”

“ All Power has been given unto me”

I have always maintained that the ONLY way to understand the Trinity is to be one of its members—- and we ain’t.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

. BTW, justification by faith is merely the first step, not the all in all. "add to your faith, virtue, etc. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

The Tax Collector In Jesus story about the Publican and the Pharisee and how they acted in the Temple shows how the Publican went home SAVED ( Justified) because he simply turned to God as a Lost Sinner and Asked for Mercy....He merely “TURNED to God” ( the only type of “ Repentance” That Saves) with FAITH and he was “ good to go” ( Again, Jesus said he returned to his home Justified ) .....this proves that Faith alone Saves.....Of course , That Faith is just the Starting Point , and we are to Add to that Saving Faith once we “GET” Saved , but don’t act as if the wise “additions” to our Faith that Both Peter and Paul stressed are the “ Means” to getting Saved.....Don’t Confuse What we “ should” do with what we “ Must” do.....
The only thing that we MUST do is to make sure that we get “ Born Again” .....we accomplish “That” the second that we Believe the Gospel—— That Gospel would be that “ Jesus Died for our sins and rose from the dead”......simply Believe that without Adding to it with your Works and God will put His Holy Spirit in you .....once He puts that Spirit in you , you are Born Again....Saved forever.....Once you get that behind you, you can add to it with all the good things that you quoted.......

I'm just saying that Peter says that IF YOU DON'T 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

This is not pleasing to God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What Scripture? The one I just provided in this post....

Another one? 1John1:8

One really does not even need Scripture to debunk the heresy Of “ Sinless Perfection”......As I have requested before.....please let me talk for 2 minutes with the spouse or closet friend of anybody that thinks that they have no sin in their lives—- be it in thought or in deed........And if anybody thinks that they can pass “ those” tests, we can then move on to their remaining problem.....do you “ really “ want to talk about your “ Sins Of Omission?” How many strangers have you invited into your home lately to feed and clothe lately? All that leisure time that you spent reading a book or watching Television ? Why didn’t you spend that wasted time helping out at the soup kitchen or the hospital?

No denomination taught me...I’ve just studied the Bible for 50 years and listened to God-Sent teachers that I have prayed for God to lead me to...I like to think that I have learned from the best and I am not a Baptist , nor a Methodist , nor Anything Else.....at the end of the day just call me a “ Jesus Man”....

Why do you think 1 John 1:8 contradicts 1 John 3:9? It is because that person never got to the next verse. They haven't been cleansed of all sin, so they still have sin in them. If you are going to teach yourself, learn some rules. Don't take scriptures out of context. See the whole picture. Look at chapter 1 and see that John is contrasting Light vs. Darkness. The verses that are Light are 5, 7 and 9. The verses that are Darkness are 6, 8 (your verse) and 10.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What Scripture? The one I just provided in this post....

Another one? 1John1:8

One really does not even need Scripture to debunk the heresy Of “ Sinless Perfection”......As I have requested before.....please let me talk for 2 minutes with the spouse or closet friend of anybody that thinks that they have no sin in their lives—- be it in thought or in deed........And if anybody thinks that they can pass “ those” tests, we can then move on to their remaining problem.....do you “ really “ want to talk about your “ Sins Of Omission?” How many strangers have you invited into your home lately to feed and clothe lately? All that leisure time that you spent reading a book or watching Television ? Why didn’t you spend that wasted time helping out at the soup kitchen or the hospital?

No denomination taught me...I’ve just studied the Bible for 50 years and listened to God-Sent teachers that I have prayed for God to lead me to...I like to think that I have learned from the best and I am not a Baptist , nor a Methodist , nor Anything Else.....at the end of the day just call me a “ Jesus Man”....

If you believe like MacArthur that Sinless Perfection is heresy, then you are just as possessed by the doctrines of demons as he is. You call yourself a Jesus man, and yet slap His face. You don't even know Him.

1 John 3:5-6
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

 

[MatthewG]

Please be careful talking here.

If people don’t believe what scriptures say they have the ability to think and choose and believe how they will.

Anyone can share their own view but there will always be view points taken by scripture that can say something else.

Anyone who is seeking for the truth my encouragement is always to seek for it by use of the Bible, with prayer to God to help you by the spirit.

 

[Dropship]

I am not trying to say that Jesus literally is God....I am saying that He is equal to God.....

“ If you have seen me you have seen the Father”

“ I and the Father are One”

“ All Power has been given unto me”

That's just a play on words..
Here's the truth straight from Jesus's mouth-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)

 

[Gospel Believer]

That's just a play on words..
Here's the truth straight from Jesus's mouth-
"I am going to the Father, for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28)

When Jesus came to Earth in the form of a human being, He was actually and temporarily “ lower than the Angels”......it was a temporary thing —- a “ROLE” that He played as part of the Plan to save mankind....He voluntarily MADE Himself subservient to the Father and subjected Himself to his Fathers will, and this in no way ever denied His Deity....Jesus, “ emptied His True Self” and “ Took on the ‘ Form’ Of a subject “ —- this way He could be “ Truly Man” and yet at the same time be “ Truly God”.....He voluntarily and Temporarily set aside His Divine attributes....

I can take on the “ role” of being your Boss , and you can take on the “ role” of being subject to my whims, yet in reality , we are both human beings and equals to each other.....it’s kinda like that....