Since we recognize no one other than Christ as king, must we then favor the church as the sole ruler instead secular democracy?
Do we need theocracy?
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I prefer a secular state to a religious one. But to be ruled by God is the only way to go!!
I prefer a secular state to a religious one. But to be ruled by God is the only way to go!!
But are we not spiritual people, and must we not shun secular ideals, which are but a form of idolatry?
The world has seen theocracy before. This Christian theocracy was responsible for the need for the Reformation and such atrocities as the first & second crusades.
I have no problem with God as my king. I have a problem with sinful men claiming to be God's herald and appointed spiritual leader and no verifiable proof of God's favor bestowed upon them.
I have no problem with God as my king. I have a problem with sinful men claiming to be God's herald and appointed spiritual leader and no verifiable proof of God's favor bestowed upon them.
Romans 13:1-7 HCSB
Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval. For government is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience. And for this reason you pay taxes, since the authorities are God’s public servants, continually attending to these tasks. Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
I think this arena is one of the clearer aspects of the Bible. The bottom line of the above (and other passages in Scripture) is live peaceably within the government that you are under because ultimately God has approved that ruler (though he may not approve of what he or she is doing). We have countless first century (and beyond) examples of Christians being persecuted under governments. The Biblical examples show that Paul, for instance, knew his rights as a Roman citizen. Jesus even instructed, "Render unto Caesar..." and so on.
What this is saying is that where possible, follow the rules. Submit to the ruler(s) and be a good citizen. However, we Christians recognize that God is our great Sovereign Lord and we should not do that which comes into conflict with his instruction. Our first allegiance is to him, and that's bothered countless power centers throughout the ages.
As such, I do not believe the form of government necessarily matters. I happen to believe in a Democractic Republic as being the best form, but that does not mean that a Monarchy, Oligarchy, or even a Socialist form of government cannot promote Christianity. However, certain types of governments are predisposed to not liking Christianity such as Communism where the religion is ultimately the state. I might add that even a Democratic government can become hostile to Jesus.
Would I mind a Theocracy in the sense that Jesus ruled and we had a clear set of laws and rulers whom obeyed God? No. Do I want a Theocracy in the wordly sense, knowing better based on historical examples? Heck no.
Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval. For government is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience. And for this reason you pay taxes, since the authorities are God’s public servants, continually attending to these tasks. Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
I think this arena is one of the clearer aspects of the Bible. The bottom line of the above (and other passages in Scripture) is live peaceably within the government that you are under because ultimately God has approved that ruler (though he may not approve of what he or she is doing). We have countless first century (and beyond) examples of Christians being persecuted under governments. The Biblical examples show that Paul, for instance, knew his rights as a Roman citizen. Jesus even instructed, "Render unto Caesar..." and so on.
What this is saying is that where possible, follow the rules. Submit to the ruler(s) and be a good citizen. However, we Christians recognize that God is our great Sovereign Lord and we should not do that which comes into conflict with his instruction. Our first allegiance is to him, and that's bothered countless power centers throughout the ages.
As such, I do not believe the form of government necessarily matters. I happen to believe in a Democractic Republic as being the best form, but that does not mean that a Monarchy, Oligarchy, or even a Socialist form of government cannot promote Christianity. However, certain types of governments are predisposed to not liking Christianity such as Communism where the religion is ultimately the state. I might add that even a Democratic government can become hostile to Jesus.
Would I mind a Theocracy in the sense that Jesus ruled and we had a clear set of laws and rulers whom obeyed God? No. Do I want a Theocracy in the wordly sense, knowing better based on historical examples? Heck no.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
You're not sounding so moderate anymore aspen.
I am just trying on some 'moderately radical' for a change......
Secular democracies have indulged in wars and bloodshed over and over. The church at least has an excuse in that they were doing the best they could in the medieval ages. What excuse do modern, secular govts have?
Right, and Moses was a pagan too huh?
Rom 13:1-4
1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
(KJV)
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
All governments are corrupted by power and money. Theocracies are no different. Also, the Medieval Catholic Church, which was the government, was doing the best it could to assert it's power, squeeze money out of the countries under it's thumb, and Crusade it's way across the Middle East - that is a fact.
Well let's try to clarify - can you explain the "church/preacher tax", then?
And, with all due respect, if you try to relate it to a tithe, you're simply mistaken. Phoros means taxes/tribute. That, rather clearly, points to a government.
And, with all due respect, if you try to relate it to a tithe, you're simply mistaken. Phoros means taxes/tribute. That, rather clearly, points to a government.
Church and State should work together as spirit and body (respectively). Each has it's function. The nature of the State is secular just as the nature of the body is 'feed me'. The problem occurs when one (Chuch/State) ignores or tries to dominate the other,
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