Do you believe Jesus has given you the Holy Spirit?

[Born_Again]

Any time I have asked you about praying for others or if you have compassion for the least of these you havent given any real answer. All I'm saying is that when you look at a Christian they should reflect the Love of Christ. Honestly, John. I just dont see it. I dont see mercy, compassion, or love. You are all over scripture questions but when asked questions, related to Christ, outside of scripture, you dodge them or chose not to answer.

 

[Wormwood]

You accuse, and have no proof, and that is very insulting. Can you do that because you are a monitor?
Have I insulted anyone on this forum?
Gnostic beliefs generally strike a chord of truth with most people, no matter their background. One very important belief is that personal transcendence & enlightenment (Gnosis) can be achieved not from the material world, but from examination of the mind, accessing inner truth, and seeking spiritual wisdom.
My world has nothing to do with my mind. I don’t transcend to gain enlightenment. People take drugs to do such crazy things.
My mind is just flesh. I am interested in only what God wants me to be, and do.
Now show me how I am a Gnostic.

What are you talking about? Where did I accuse you or say you were a gnostic? I said John was writing about Gnostics in his epistle and his words are still relevant today because there is still similar teaching going around that is like what the Gnostics taught that used Christ to promote sin. I never said you were a Gnostic or taught anything close to Gnosticism, John.

 

[Johnlove]

What are you talking about? Where did I accuse you or say you were a gnostic? I said John was writing about Gnostics in his epistle and his words are still relevant today because there is still similar teaching going around that is like what the Gnostics taught that used Christ to promote sin. I never said you were a Gnostic or taught anything close to Gnosticism, John.

[SIZE=16pt]I believed you were insinuating Gnostic is what was being taught by me. If that was not so then forgive me for my misunderstanding.[/SIZE]

 

[Wormwood]

No, that is not what I was saying. Don't worry about it. I misunderstand what people are trying to say all the time!

 

[aspen]

Ok wormwood has been my orthodox hero of the month, but I think he has been surpassed by Enquirer - nice job guys! Also Born Again - huge fan, my brother!

 

[Wormwood]

Haha, thank you aspen. Usually I don't make it a full month!

 

[justaname]

Johnlove,

Matthew 7:21-23 was not spoken to everyone. This was spoken to Jews not Christians.

You have built a false theology by picking portions of Scripture that adhere to your alleged personal experience disregarding that which does not support your beliefs.

Is this truly what the Holy Spirit teaches you to do?

You teach after we a good enough we will receive the Holy Spirit. This is false. Scripture teaches it is upon belief. Ephesians 1:13-14

To further the support...

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:4-10

It is by God we are given the Holy Spirit and it is not according to our moral performance.

 

[Johnlove]

Johnlove,

Matthew 7:21-23 was not spoken to everyone. This was spoken to Jews not Christians.

You have built a false theology by picking portions of Scripture that adhere to your alleged personal experience disregarding that which does not support your beliefs.

Is this truly what the Holy Spirit teaches you to do?

You teach after we a good enough we will receive the Holy Spirit. This is false. Scripture teaches it is upon belief. Ephesians 1:13-14

To further the support...

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:4-10

It is by God we are given the Holy Spirit and it is not according to our moral performance.

[SIZE=16pt]Notice Paul was speaking to those who believed in him/Jesus Christ.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To be in Jesus one can’t sin. Paul was speaking to Christians that walked as Jesus walked.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]So you believe the above scripture is not speaking to us, because Jesus was talking to Jews?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Wow! I have heard many excuses not to accept what scripture says, but your excuse is one of the lamest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Most everything Jesus said was speaking to Jews. Jesus was a Jew, Peter, and the rest of the apostles were Jews.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Face it if scripture is in the bible the Holy Spirit had it placed in the bible to teach us to know of Jesus. [/SIZE]

 

[John Zain]

Scripture teaches it is upon belief. Ephesians 1:13-14

Yes, but Paul was writing to a group within the church
at Ephesus, who were much more than mere believers!
This group within the church was actually "faithful".
If he had been writing to today's church, he would have
been writing to a small percentage of the church.

 

[justaname]

[SIZE=16pt]Notice Paul was speaking to those who believed in him/Jesus Christ.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To be in Jesus one can’t sin. Paul was speaking to Christians that walked as Jesus walked.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did” [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]So you believe the above scripture is not speaking to us, because Jesus was talking to Jews?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Wow! I have heard many excuses not to accept what scripture says, but your excuse is one of the lamest.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Most everything Jesus said was speaking to Jews. Jesus was a Jew, Peter, and the rest of the apostles were Jews.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Face it if scripture is in the bible the Holy Spirit had it placed in the bible to teach us to know of Jesus. [/SIZE]

Yes, but Paul was writing to a group within the church
at Ephesus, who were much more than mere believers!
This group within the church was actually "faithful".
If he had been writing to today's church, he would have
been writing to a small percentage of the church.

I wonder did either of you actually read Ephesians 2?

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


To stay on topic here the view we are exploring is Pneumatology....the fact that Paul referred to the faithful is irrelevant. In fact Paul could only call them "faithful" up to that point in time. Who is to say everyone who received that letter stayed "faithful". The term is used as a term of endearment similar to beloved. To build a theology that there is a special class of Christian is based on rubbish and does not come from the Holy Spirit. You both need to stop being false teachers, teaching such lies and misleading others.

Allow Scripture to illuminate your minds...

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

​There is one body of Christ, the Church, which is all believers. We are called into the hope of the resurrection, not sinless perfection upon receiving the Holy Spirit. Our faith is in Christ as Lord and His resurrection. This is the gospel, the good news.

I have showed with Scripture that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. God's Spirit guarantees our inheritance until redemption.

Scripture does not contradict Scripture. And to further Scripture support...

John 5

24“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

Those who believe will not see the Great White Throne Judgment...Selah

Soteriology 101

Salvation is by grace through faith. Those who are God's children will persevere until the end.


Johnlove,

I accept everything Scripture says and make no excuses. Simply because I clarified one of your statements "Jesus spoke this to everyone" does not mean I don't accept Scripture. This is what you would call a "Straw man". Yet this is not a straw-man, you are rather boastful of your sinlessness and Jesus "showing" Himself to you. Why is that?

 

[Axehead]

Ephesian church is an interesting church, because as gifted as they were, with miracles abounding, Jesus said, they "lost their first love". Do you think they became prideful?

Jesus considered it sin to leave your first love because he commanded the Ephesian church to REPENT.

Rev_2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev_2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev_2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Whatever is not of Christ is sin.

 

[justaname]

Ephesian church is an interesting church, because as gifted as they were, with miracles abounding, Jesus said, they "lost their first love". Do you think they became prideful?

Jesus considered it sin to leave your first love because he commanded the Ephesian church to REPENT.

Rev_2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev_2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev_2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev_2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev_2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Whatever is not of Christ is sin.

Here is a great case showing where those in Christ did sin and are not immediately rejected by Jesus. They are told to repent. Interesting enough John also wrote Revelation. This coincides with the teaching of the Church and not that of Johnlove.

Certainly the same church that was called "faithful" fell from their position of favor with God, yet God is faithful to forgive if they repent.

I am uncertain if they became prideful, it is possible but Scripture is not specific in that area. They lost their first love.

 

[Johnlove]

I wonder did either of you actually read Ephesians 2?

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
[SIZE=16pt]Yes this is true, but Jesus after forgiving our past sins, then gave us his Holy Spirit, who gives us the grace to sin no more.[/SIZE]

6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SIZE=16pt]Yes it is only because one is receiving the grace from the Holy Spirit that he or she is able to live God’s Word. All the glory for one living a righteous life, is given to our Lord and God Jesus Christ.[/SIZE]

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


To stay on topic here the view we are exploring is Pneumatology....the fact that Paul referred to the faithful is irrelevant. In fact Paul could only call them "faithful" up to that point in time. Who is to say everyone who received that letter stayed "faithful". The term is used as a term of endearment similar to beloved. To build a theology that there is a special class of Christian is based on rubbish and does not come from the Holy Spirit. You both need to stop being false teachers, teaching such lies and misleading others.

Allow Scripture to illuminate your minds...

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

​There is one body of Christ, the Church, which is all believers. We are called into the hope of the resurrection, not sinless perfection upon receiving the Holy Spirit. Our faith is in Christ as Lord and His resurrection. This is the gospel, the good news.

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus told us to be perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Jesus also made it possible to be perfect. He did this by giving us his Holy Spirit to teach us how to live God’s Word, and the grace to be able to do what the Holy Spirit teaches.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Matthew 5:48) “Even the pagans do as much, do they not? You must therefore be perfect just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” [/SIZE]

I have showed with Scripture that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. God's Spirit guarantees our inheritance until redemption.

Scripture does not contradict Scripture. And to further Scripture support...

[SIZE=16pt]Yes as long one stays in Jesus Christ one will enter the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]To be in Christ is explained in the following scripture.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 2:6) “Whoever claims to remain in him must act as he acted.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Paul tells us that a sinner will never enter the kingdom of God.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Notice a sinner will not inherit the Kingdom of God?[/SIZE]

John 5

24“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

Those who believe will not see the Great White Throne Judgment...Selah

Soteriology 101

Salvation is by grace through faith. Those who are God's children will persevere until the end.

[SIZE=16pt]Yes and Jesus told us he would call his own out by name. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](John 10:1-5)"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Then Jesus also said calling him Lord, without obeying him will not make him or her his children.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt](Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”[/SIZE]

Johnlove,

I accept everything Scripture says and make no excuses. Simply because I clarified one of your statements "Jesus spoke this to everyone" does not mean I don't accept Scripture. This is what you would call a "Straw man". Yet this is not a straw-man,

[SIZE=16pt]My sharing about my personal relationship with Jesus, and what the fruits of that relationship are, is just because that is what Jesus told me to do. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]But it could also be that it gives people like you a way to throw stones at me. [/SIZE]

 

[Axehead]

[SIZE=16pt]But it could also be that it gives people like you a way to throw stones at me. [/SIZE]

John,

We are not throwing stones at you any more than you are throwing stones at us. What I mean is, you don't think you are throwing stones at us and we think the same, regarding you. You don't realize that you put yourself above your brothers because you believe everyone sins except you and you take an impossible stance towards everyone because you want them to prove to you that they do not sin. If you speak with people about the Word of God and they disagree with you, that does not mean they are attacking you. We are not to receive anything that the Holy Spirit has not confirmed in our heart by His Word and Spirit. Most of us cannot receive what you are saying. There is a lot of truth in your words, but there is also "mixture", which is tainting the truth you are trying to express. I believe you have all of us digging in the Word as Bereans, but lets maintain the "unity of the spirit in the bond of peace" as we do this. I apologize for getting short with you in an earlier post.

As we see with the Book of Revelation and the Ephesian Church, repentance is a way of life (the road of sanctification) for a Christian. It is only the one that hardens his heart (stops repenting and being humble) that is in trouble (Hebrews 3).

2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

- Does he mean that the very nature and character of the Sinless One, Jesus, lives in the one who has received divine life in the spiritual birth of regeneration, and the Sinless One does not express sin in our behavior? I say yes! The Sinless One does not express sin in our behavior. But, only as we abide in Him. To abide in Him is to abide in him completely meaning to abide in His love, too and the Ephesian church stopped abiding in his love. What else could Jesus have meant when speaking to them? They had "left their first love", John. The Christian walk is a life of constant growth and maturing and being conformed to the "image of Christ" and yes we are to be perfect as our Father in heaven is, but as Paul said:


Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php_3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php_3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

All the best,
Axehead

 

[Johnlove]

John,

We are not throwing stones at you any more than you are throwing stones at us. What I mean is, you don't think you are throwing stones at us and we think the same, regarding you. You don't realize that you put yourself above your brothers because you believe everyone sins except you and you take an impossible stance towards everyone because you want them to prove to you that they do not sin. If you speak with people about the Word of God and they disagree with you, that does not mean they are attacking you. We are not to receive anything that the Holy Spirit has not confirmed in our heart by His Word and Spirit. Most of us cannot receive what you are saying. There is a lot of truth in your words, but there is also "mixture", which is tainting the truth you are trying to express. I believe you have all of us digging in the Word as Bereans, but lets maintain the "unity of the spirit in the bond of peace" as we do this. I apologize for getting short with you in an earlier post.

As we see with the Book of Revelation and the Ephesian Church, repentance is a way of life (the road of sanctification) for a Christian. It is only the one that hardens his heart (stops repenting and being humble) that is in trouble (Hebrews 3).

2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

- Does he mean that the very nature and character of the Sinless One, Jesus, lives in the one who has received divine life in the spiritual birth of regeneration, and the Sinless One does not express sin in our behavior? I say yes! The Sinless One does not express sin in our behavior. But, only as we abide in Him. To abide in Him is to abide in him completely meaning to abide in His love, too and the Ephesian church stopped abiding in his love. What else could Jesus have meant when speaking to them? They had "left their first love", John. The Christian walk is a life of constant growth and maturing and being conformed to the "image of Christ" and yes we are to be perfect as our Father in heaven is, but as Paul said:


Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php_3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php_3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

All the best,
Axehead

[SIZE=16pt]You gave me the impression that one did not have to strive to gain the kingdom of heaven.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Then you quote Paul saying how hard he was striving.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]You accuse me of pride. You accuse me, and you have no understanding of what Jesus is having me do.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Just because Paul shared that he was having a struggle does not mean that God makes everyone struggle to be righteous. Paul was just a man, and had to live with the amount of grace Jesus gave him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus said he would show Paul how much he would have to suffer for him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]I don’t believe any of the other apostles had to suffer as much as Paul. God decides how much grace one receives, and he can make it easier for some than others. Yet God will always give one enough grace to not sin, and to obey him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus answered my years of praying to be able to not sin. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]He has carried that burden of mine from the time he declared me clean, and that was almost forty years ago. [/SIZE]

 

[John Zain]

Allow Scripture to illuminate your minds...

Agreed, and now you can begin to explain to everyone:

Why are there many dozens of warnings in the New Covenant,
some of which actually threaten the loss of eternal life?

Specifically, these warnings are from the epistle writers to churches.
But, let us not forget:
-- Jesus' warnings to the churches in Revelation 2-3
-- the warnings to everyone in Revelation 21-22

Jesus' warnings in the gospels are basically directed at everyone
re: what is required to gain eternal life (not so much about losing such).

This should be velly interesting, folks!

 

[Axehead]

John,

We are not throwing stones at you any more than you are throwing stones at us. What I mean is, you don't think you are throwing stones at us and we think the same, regarding you. You don't realize that you put yourself above your brothers because you believe everyone sins except you and you take an impossible stance towards everyone because you want them to prove to you that they do not sin. If you speak with people about the Word of God and they disagree with you, that does not mean they are attacking you. We are not to receive anything that the Holy Spirit has not confirmed in our heart by His Word and Spirit. Most of us cannot receive what you are saying. There is a lot of truth in your words, but there is also "mixture", which is tainting the truth you are trying to express. I believe you have all of us digging in the Word as Bereans, but lets maintain the "unity of the spirit in the bond of peace" as we do this. I apologize for getting short with you in an earlier post.

As we see with the Book of Revelation and the Ephesian Church, repentance is a way of life (the road of sanctification) for a Christian. It is only the one that hardens his heart (stops repenting and being humble) that is in trouble (Hebrews 3).

2Pe_1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

- Does he mean that the very nature and character of the Sinless One, Jesus, lives in the one who has received divine life in the spiritual birth of regeneration, and the Sinless One does not express sin in our behavior? I say yes! The Sinless One does not express sin in our behavior. But, only as we abide in Him. To abide in Him is to abide in him completely meaning to abide in His love, too and the Ephesian church stopped abiding in his love. What else could Jesus have meant when speaking to them? They had "left their first love", John. The Christian walk is a life of constant growth and maturing and being conformed to the "image of Christ" and yes we are to be perfect as our Father in heaven is, but as Paul said:


Php_3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php_3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php_3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

All the best,
Axehead

[SIZE=16pt]You gave me the impression that one did not have to strive to gain the kingdom of heaven.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Then you quote Paul saying how hard he was striving.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]You accuse me of pride. You accuse me, and you have no understanding of what Jesus is having me do.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Just because Paul shared that he was having a struggle does not mean that God makes everyone struggle to be righteous. Paul was just a man, and had to live with the amount of grace Jesus gave him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus said he would show Paul how much he would have to suffer for him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]I don’t believe any of the other apostles had to suffer as much as Paul. God decides how much grace one receives, and he can make it easier for some than others. Yet God will always give one enough grace to not sin, and to obey him.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Jesus answered my years of praying to be able to not sin. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]He has carried that burden of mine from the time he declared me clean, and that was almost forty years ago. [/SIZE]

John, I did not accuse you of pride. Can you show me where? I will say that if someone disagrees with you, you go into this "martyr spirit", complex. I think you are unable to carry on a conversation with anyone unless they agree with everything you say. But, your attitude does make sense since you think you are perfect.

 

[Johnlove]

John, I did not accuse you of pride. Can you show me where? I will say that if someone disagrees with you, you go into this "martyr spirit", complex. I think you are unable to carry on a conversation with anyone unless they agree with everything you say. But, your attitude does make sense since you think you are perfect.

[SIZE=16pt]Did I ever say that I was perfect?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]One knows he or she has the Holy Spirit if the fruit that is, living God’s Word is the fruit produced from the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Also if one has the magnifications of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Living God’s Word means one does not sin. [/SIZE]

 

[justaname]

Agreed, and now you can begin to explain to everyone:

Why are there many dozens of warnings in the New Covenant,
some of which actually threaten the loss of eternal life?

Specifically, these warnings are from the epistle writers to churches.
But, let us not forget:
-- Jesus' warnings to the churches in Revelation 2-3
-- the warnings to everyone in Revelation 21-22

Jesus' warnings in the gospels are basically directed at everyone
re: what is required to gain eternal life (not so much about losing such).

This should be velly interesting, folks!

I would like to respond to this although I believe it requires its own thread so as to respect the OP. Do you want to start it?

 

[Axehead]

[SIZE=16pt]Did I ever say that I was perfect?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]One knows he or she has the Holy Spirit if the fruit that is, living God’s Word is the fruit produced from the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Also if one has the magnifications of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]Living God’s Word means one does not sin. [/SIZE]

Ok, so I agree with that. By living God's Word, I think you mean Obeying God's Word. When one is obeying God's Word they are not sinning. But it has to be a revealed word, a living word from the Holy Spirit where one is abiding in the Lord. Just obeying letters on paper does not mean one is not sinning. So, what's next?



By the way, I actually believe that ALL Scriptures are relevant to us as the Holy Spirit applies them personally.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.